200K+ debt

Just wondering what other nontrads thoughts are on the prospect of graduating with this kind of debt.


I was thinking that if I ended up having to go caribbean, the cost could be over 300K and that is daunting!!

That’s why I chose to take the Army scholarship, no debt in exchange for a couple of years of service. They even provide a small stipend during school to offset the loss of wages.

You read my mind! I am doing the Total Money Makeover to pay off my existing vehicle loans before school, so I’m not really excited about running up the med school debt after becoming debt-free. I expect to be around the <$150K level, but my oldest will start college during my residency so it’s bad enough!


I live in an area with a primary care/rural program where I could avoid all that debt, so that’s an option I’m considering. Problem is that the program locks you into primary care. . .I don’t know that I want to commit to any particular area before I start my education and training. But a free medical education is something to consider! Or not. Yes. No.

Just remember that most of your loans will have payment deferred while you are in residency. Then they can be financed over a 25-30 year plan, making the payments manageable. . . not easy, but you can do it.


For me, that means >$250,000 in loans with payments of about $1800/month. It can change for those not in school yet, because the interest rates on the Staffords, which is 6.8 right now, may change.


BUT, I want to be a doctor; so I will happily pay the price!

  • Jaysun0373 Said:
That's why I chose to take the Army scholarship, no debt in exchange for a couple of years of service. They even provide a small stipend during school to offset the loss of wages.



I'm actually looking into this but I as previously rejected by the military 2X for medical reasons (asthma and surgery on my finger 1 week before the military physical).

These days I understand there is a high demand for military Docs (and the Army is my preference because I can more easily do path training) so I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. Of course, I have to get accepted somewhwre first, LOL!!

And thanks for Dr. Wilson for chipping in!

They have relaxed the physical requirements considerably, one of the guys in my group was accepted despite having epilepsy, the reasoning being that he would never be assigned away from a medical facility. The Army pathology residency is one of the best in the world, you would be very well trained by the end of it. I wish you luck!

Is there an age limit for the military route?


BTW, Linda, congrats on being so close to graduation. It’s been awhile since I’ve been on here, but it’s great to be back.

  • AliJ Said:
I am doing the Total Money Makeover to pay off my existing vehicle loans before school, so I'm not really excited about running up the med school debt after becoming debt-free.



Congratulations on getting on track to financial freedom! My wife and I completed Dave's FPU course last year, and we're now debt-free. It's an awesome feeling.

I love Dave Ramsey, but I respectfully disagree with his views on financing post-graduate coursework. He's a small business and real estate guru, but I seek out other sources for topics like this. I've been downloading his podcasts for over a year, and have yet to hear him lay out a good plan for a caller with questions about paying for law school or med school. He typically tells them to save up and pay cash or not do it at all. Then he takes the next caller after 20 seconds of advice on post-grad finances. IMHO, that's just not feasible. There is a middle ground in here somewhere. Trying to finance 100% of our education and lifestyle is not a good answer, but neither is total abolition of credit/loans when it comes to education (Ramsey's idea).

The debt is definitely a concern for me as well. If all goes well, I’ll have one daughter in college while I’m in residency and another in her last years of high school.


The other issue is finding a region where there is a relative density of medical schools within a half-day’s drive of each other. If I get accepted to med school A, I can hopefully complete my residency at the same school. If not, at least schools B, C, or D will be within a few hours. That way, I don’t have to relocate my kids during their remaining years of high school…which is why Ohio is top on my list.


Regarding the military route, I served in the Navy and still have a commission from them. My guess is there is an age limit for the medical route.

The initial age limit is 44 by graduation, but one can obtain an age waiver fairly easily. The Army also has two year contracts for those age 45-60, with many docs still working in the reserves into their mid-seventies. I will be 41 by graduation, 61 by retirement age. I can give further information if you need it. The Navy and (ch)Air Force ,(sorry a little service joke)offer similar packages with lower age limits of 42 and 39 respectively. The Navy and Air Force also have programs were a certain percentage of their medical officers are given one year of GME and then sent to the field for 1-3 years before continuing residency. Needless to say, this was what steered me away from them.

  • ditchdoc Said:


I love Dave Ramsey, but I respectfully disagree with his views on financing post-graduate coursework.



I know what you mean. While I am cheering Dave on when he scolds the guy financing his MA in social work, I am not that hardcore to save up $100K for med school ahead of time. Or, even if *I* was, my husband is not going to sell the house and all our possessions to do this. I am just trying not to take out any loans except for the actual tuition part.

Btw, seeing you're location, you should be familiar with the tuition-paid opportunity I'm talking about. . .It's like golden handcuffs.
  • AliJ Said:


Btw, seeing you're location, you should be familiar with the tuition-paid opportunity I'm talking about. . .It's like golden handcuffs.



Oh, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I spent a while looking into it, and made some phone calls. It's probably a decent program, but just not a good fit for me.

I keep toying w/ the military route, but honestly, things as they are, I’m afraid there will be MORE conflicts in our future not less, and the idea of being away from my children at war terrifies the hell out of me.


Kuddos to those who can make that sacrifice. I know that is where my weakness lies. And then I end up feeling all guilty when I see soldiers come into the store, knowing full well I’m patriotic and too chicken to do what they do. Makes me want to buy their lunch every time.


Sadly, I have no other way to fund this right now than loans. I’m hoping to find one of those underserviced area type progams that offer loan repayment. But if not, at least I’ll be making money in the end.

  • BOOBS Said:
Sadly, I have no other way to fund this right now than loans. I'm hoping to find one of those underserviced area type progams that offer loan repayment. But if not, at least I'll be making money in the end.



I was pretty solid on doing a repayment program while a fellow/resident at the NIH, but thanks to this humungous spending bill, I'm not so certain there will be any funding available for these type programs.

Most private colleges present a cost of 50+ a year – tuition + subsistence. Some schools are priced at nearly 40K/yr tuition. That’s 160K in tuition alone. Considering unsubsidized loans at the current rate of 6.80% with interest accruing at inception, the debt load at graduation could easily be 250K.


I’ve put together a spreadsheet and analyzed this a 100 different ways. And it weighs heavily on me, but what do I care! I’m not even there yet. I’m going to focus on gaining admission first. Once I get there, I’m sure I’ll find a way to finance this dream. One baby step at a time…

My husband and I plan on paying off as much as possible. While at this stage in the game it seems unimaginable to pay off right away, we will try. I guess what I am saying is yes we anticipate a heavy debt and hopefully the rewards will outweigh that factor. I am not blind to the fact that it will be a 2nd house payment. I just accept it.

OMG Dr. Mario! Best avatar ever!

  • Linda Wilson Said:
Just remember that most of your loans will have payment deferred while you are in residency.



Just to make things crystal slear - this theorem works well for folks who plan to enter the primary care fields. all of those training programs are 3 years in length, which is precisely the length of allowed deferment.

HOWEVER, if you are silly enough to endeavor to become a specialist, where training programs all exceed three years and even hit 6 or 7 years - that bitch Sallie Mae has no programs...ZERO...that you can adapt to programs beyond 3 years. So, you will have to begin making some payments - interest only, probably - during your later years of training. And, know that Sallie Mae, as a company, is extremely poorly run...no surprise as she is gov't subsidized...and cannot even SPELL customer service.

I could write a scary novel on all of the BS I have had to endure because of thier ineptness. You can never get a consistent answer out of their reps. Even if your precisely do follow their instructions, it was most likely wrong and you will be held accountable for any errors or late payment s& penalties even if it is clear from their records that the error was theirs. Furthermore, if you commit the 8th deadly sin and get behind, prepare to be called and called and called. At one point, while nearing banckruptcy in the waning months of my fellowship - despite a multitude of calls from me to them to make arrangements - they began calling me 6 to 8 times per day to tell me to make payments, offering to post-date payments (did that once, which they cahsed immediately causing me to bounce checks - they refused to accept responsibility) and harass. I was even told that I should do the honorable thing and get a PT job and pay my bills like a responsible adult. When I tried to explain why I could not, I was told, "that's not my problem and if you do not like it, call your Congressman".

You would think this would be drastically improved now that I can easily affor my Sallie Mae payements. Nope, they continue to fouls it up nearly on a monthly basis. I make my loan payments 2 weeks in advance of the due date and pay 150~200% of the amount due. But, in the 8mos I have been working s a Doc, about 4 times I have rec'd nasty-grams because they alleged I was delinquent on a payment. Each time, one of their "fiscally challenged" employees has erroneously credited some random amount of my payment towards something outstanding and left an amount actually due unpaid.

I have tried twice now, at their suggestion, to engage in their automatic payment plan. Neither time were they even able to correctly pay my bill - ZERO times. Both attempts resulted in "late payment" nasty-grams and telephone calls because of their screwup. the first time I was told I had been incorrect filling out the on-line because of the complexity of my loan situation and that I should have done the paper app - despite having been guided through the on-line app by a rep in real time. The second time, when I followed thier suggestion and did the paper app, it was again my fault because my loans are so complex that the only way to guarantee the auto-payment plan would work was to do the on-line app.

Sallie Mae hires only the bottom end of the gene pool...so beware. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there is no escaping her ineptness.

Dang, I didn’t know that about the three year thing. Considering I think that something like a subspecialty in surgery would interest me (neuro, perhaps), I need to take that into account.

Dang, OldManDave, that s&*^%ks! Only once did I have to contact CS, and I swear I was talking with someone from India or Pakistan.