Hello!
I am a recent member to OPM and am so thankful to have found this amazing resource with so many wise and supportive peers and mentors. Thank you EVERYONE!
So here is my question. Due to a shift in my financial situation, I am able to begin my prerequisite coursework earlier than expected. I’d like to start Spring Quarter (end of March).
Since the Bio I and Chem I that I took in undergrad is more than 5 years old, I’m pretty much starting from scratch. Unfortunately, however, I’ve found that universities and community colleges just don’t seem to offer first quarter chem or bio in the Spring quarter. This is so frustrating!
So rather than wait 2 months to begin in the summer - here is a possible scenario I wanted to run by everyone.
Though my Bio I and Chem I are >5 yrs. old, and though I got a C+ in Chem and a Credit in Bio (I was on study abroad where this was an option); I’d like to review first quarter Bio and Chem and simply start in Chem II and Bio II at the end of March. My question is, does it seem reasonable that I would do well, given that I fully intend on busting my butt, and then, if I do end up doing well, would I still need to take first quarter Bio I and Chem I ?
Also, one other question. University of California Riverside has an intensive OChem summer program. You can complete a full year of OChem in one summer. Does one need to complete the full year of GenChem in order to embark on OChem? Especially an intensive OChem?
Thanks so much for all your help!!!
Planetron,
welcome to OldPremeds!
Regarding starting in Bio II and Chem II and then doing Orgo over the summer, I think your subject header basically says it all: ambitious. If it were me, I’d maybe audit or sit in on the spring classes, just to get a leg up. It’s not worth experimenting if you risk getting poor grades because you can’t ever erase them.
As for summer orgo, I would be careful about doing that especially if you haven’t done a full year of general chem yet. The two subjects are different, but orgo does assume some basic knowledge of atomic and molecular orbitals, molarity, thermodynamics, equilibrium, etc., which you may or may not have. Summer orgo can be a really tough way to get an A, and you really need to get as many A’s as possible especially given you have at least one low science grade from before.
I can tell you that I rushed a little in doing my prereqs and my grades suffered as a result. This is limiting my options now. Were I to do it again, I’d sure do things differently–slow down and be more methodical about it. But, anyway, no one can tell you what’s right for you; you have to decide for yourself. Good luck!
Given the information provided, I would probably recommend waiting until you can start with Bio I and Chem I. First - it’s been awhile since you’ve taken them. Although the content of Bio II and Chem II MAY be radically different than the first quarter, at most schools, the second quarter builds heavily upon the first and it is assumed that most people in the second quarter have recently take the first. So, there is no time to adapt. It is going to be assumed that you are up to speed.
The “credit” for Bio I sounds questionable. While you probably wouldn’t need to retake Chem I, you may run into difficulty with the Bio I credit being accepted by some schools (did it have a lab component?). Med schools usually want a grade in the pre-reqs. If you take the Bio II and then find out you need to retake the Bio I, you could have a hard time scheduling it after having already taken Bio II.
As far as organic chem - like Terry said - most courses do assume a working knowledge of gen chem. While there are a few places out there that allow taking ochem before or concurrently with gen chem, most schools require gen chem as a prereq to ochem (for good reason, in my opinion). I took summer ochem. It was brutal. One of the things that helped me survive was strong, recent coursework in gen chem (especially with acids/bases and orbitals).
Be careful on jumping right in on this. You know you need to kick butt on these, but that is easier said than done. I think you first need to determine if you need/want to retake Bio I and Chem I. If so - I really think you should do that first and build a solid foundation rather than taking the second quarter and then going back to the first (and again, you may have a difficult time with the registrar’s office).
You don’t specify if you only need the pre-reqs or if you also need to finish a degree. Instead of taking the second quarter bio and chem, are there other courses offered that you might want/need to take prior to med school? For example Anatomy and Physiology or Microbiology (some schools require a bio prereq, but you might be able to get that waived with your previous bio credit)? Also - how is your math? Have you taken the needed math pre-reqs to be able to enroll in physics? If not, how about taking the math courses? For some stupid reason, some med schools are now requiring calculus as a pre-req.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t/can’t do this. I just advise thinking long and hard about it before jumping in. As a non-trad it is crucial that you do well in these classes - there is little room for error (especially if you have a less than stellar overall GPA to make up for). Go talk to the profs of the Bio II and Chem II and make sure you know what material they expect you to know in order to do well.
I know that once you make up your mind to do this, you want to get started ASAP and get done as fast as you can. You will hear numerous times on here “It’s a marathon, not a sprint”. Now, I ignored that advice, did the sprint plan and did well. But, for every one story like mine, there are 5 stories of people who tried to do things too fast and regretted it.
Hope this gives you some food for thought.
Amy
Hi there,
Most medical schools require a full year of university-level General Biology with lab. It sounds like your Biology will not satisfy this requirement.
I would strongly advise against taking Organic Chemistry over a summer as this course is 1. Very important to admission to medical school and 2. You would not have had a full year of General Chemistry with lab.
Since you will be applying to medical school as a non-traditional student, you need to have very high grades and a thorough knowledge of the pre-med subjects so that you will do well on the MCAT. Since you have some C+ grades in your past pre-med coursework, anything that you take now will be closely scrutinized so do very, very well.
Figure out if there are some one-semester courses that you can take that will help you with your pre-reqs such as Math or perhaps a critical reading and writing course. You do not want to hurry through your pre-med courses only to have your grades suffer or your performance on the MCAT suffer. You need to be prepared to take the MCAT only once and do well.
Good luck in your coursework!
Natalie 
When I jumped into the game last year it had been since 1995 that I was exposed to bio/chem, so I opted to retake them, partly for the MCAT material and partly to help with my gpa. I ended up with A’s in all of them, so that helped boost my BCMP gpa a lot, but only a little for my overall GPA since my degrees are not in the hard sciences.
I would retake Bio and Chem I with the labs. I know you are chomping at the bit to get going with everything, but you will thank yourself that you did it while sitting for your Bio II/Chem II exams and the MCAT. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a small time period, anyway.
As far as Organic - take the regular semester one. It’s a lot of information to chew and digest, especially for someone who’s been out of the Chemistry loop for a while.
Good luck!
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…Figure out if there are some one-semester courses that you can take that will help you with your pre-reqs such as Math or perhaps a critical reading and writing course.
Natalie
Nat has a very good point here which is often looked…critical reading and/or writing courses. Many schools consider the Verbal Reasoning score of the MCAT to be very important, in some cases the most important score. Building some English/writing classes into a pre-med curriculum (beyond the one year of English that most med schools require) often helps greatly with the MCAT.
Cheers,
Judy
Hey there,
If I were you I would not take gen chem 2 without retaking gen chem 1 first. Since it’s been five years already since you took gen chem 1, by the time you submit your application to med schools, the original coursework will probably be outdated and you’ll have to retake it anyway. I also can’t imagine getting through gen chem 2 without having a good grasp of the first semester material. Even if you did do it five years ago, the other students in your class will mostly have had more recent experience with it, so you could get behind.
As far as taking orgo without both semesters of gen chem, I also think that’s risky.
Now with bio, I don’t think it would that hard. You’ll still have to retake bio 1 most likely (overseas credits probably won’t fulfill most med schools’ requirement), but the content of bio 1 and bio 2 varies a lot from school to school. So you could take the second semester this spring and then later finish up the first semester. I’d check with the professor first to see if they agree with that plan.
I agree with people who suggest taking a math class. You can jump into that at what ever level your ready for, and it will prepare for both chemistry and physics!
I’ll take a somewhat different position from the rest here, though what will work best for you is something you’ll be the best equipped to answer.
My last Chemistry course was AP Chem 1 my senior year of high school, almost 10 years ago now (which I did well in, for what it’s worth). I’m taking Chem 2 this semester and doing well in understanding as well as grades.
I’ve had to review some of the older chapters somewhat, but overall, I don’t feel my lack of recent experience has held me up significantly.
My current understanding is that this should not be a problem for my med school prereqs, particularly if I sneak in something like Biochem at a higher level. Since this reminded me, I think I should probably ask again in my round of calls this week, just to be safe. 
I was in a similar situation with Physics (originally took that a bit earlier, actually, so it’s a bit rustier) and after looking through the text and sitting through a class or two, I don’t think I would have been able to do as well. For Physics, I’m going to hold off until the fall and take the I/II route.
Whatever you decide, make sure the schools you apply to do not have time requirements for pre-reqs. Some schools require you to have completed them more recently.
I would still re-take them to be on the safe side, and also it will give a little boost to your GPA by doing well.
Also, another issue to consider is not related to your preparedness for the MCAT but will the courses that you take now be enough to impress adcoms. Adcoms need RECENT proof of academic prowess and the more classes you have NOW the better this holds specially true for non-trads making up for a soso undergrad GPA from eons ego. Sure a high MCAT helps but this is just not enough for the MCAT is a one day exam and adcoms need to know that yes you can do well on standardized exams but also that you CAN and WILL get through a heavy curriculum during your first two years of medical school. This latter proof can ONLY be done by undertaking some serious courses and doing extremely well in them (meaning A’s). So, the burden of proof is on YOU to impress the adcoms with your recent academic prowess. Again and again non-trads trying to rush through the process end up NOT getting in and then wondering what happened. Many non-trads that attempted rushing through also ended with even MORE soso grades…and recent BAD grades on top of “older” bad grades is NOT good. Adcoms expect you to be at the top of your game! so beware and tread carefully. The adcoms will be seriously looking at your recent grades…
Thanks for the good tips. I definitely plan to continue to prove myself with a strong courseload; I guess I just see it as preferable to challenge myself in higher leve courses. Of course, I have to make sure the schools to which I apply agree
Right now, I’m trying to figure out the details of next semester. I expect it will be my first semester back to full time school (as opposed to the current FT work and 2-3 courses).
I know I’ll need to take Bio I, Orgo I, and Physics I. In addition to those, I need to decide between another course and PT work. I could balance my finances without the work, though it would be more comfortable with; the school option has the benefit of, well, more coursework, which is always interesting.
I’ve seen some suggestions that those 3 classes in and of themselves may be almost overwhelming. I suppose what I need to ask is - how would Bio/Phys/Orgo + labs compare to an expected load at med school? If it doesn’t even compare, then I’d better not be overwhelmed with it, eh? Hmm…
edit: and crossposted from another thread:
I just spoke with the admissions office at UMiami. For that program, one needs Chem I/II and OChem I/II as the intro courses themselves. The Bio requirements can be met with higher level coursework.
They also didn’t mind my old chem and calc grades, as long as I had recent coursework as well. I’d expect this would vary by school, though, so it certainly pays to ask around.
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I’ve seen some suggestions that those 3 classes in and of themselves may be almost overwhelming. I suppose what I need to ask is - how would Bio/Phys/Orgo + labs compare to an expected load at med school? If it doesn’t even compare, then I’d better not be overwhelmed with it, eh? Hmm…
Hm - it will give you a good taste. I did bio/phys/gen chem with labs and calculus at the same time. I have to say though, that I STILL studied more for one anatomy test than I had ever studied for any test in my life (including the MCAT). You just can’t imagine the volume of material until you get here, even though everyone always tells you about the volume.
That is how anatomy is going for me too! The volume seems just unbelievable. But then the weird thing is, once I’ve gotten past any particular exam (not by any great margin, mind you)–I look back at that unit, and the amount of material we learned doesn’t seem that big. Like when we dissected the forearm. I still couldn’t tell you all the tendons in the arm, but at least now I know HOW MANY there are, so if I did that unit again, I’d have a better framework. I guess I wish I’d had some previous exposure to anatomy, is what I’m saying… Or I wish my school focused more on review and less on weekly tests. (We don’t have finals here.)
Thank you all so much for the sage and sound advice! Your comments have really sunk in and I’m definitely taking a step back to make sure I set myself up for success. It’s true, being a non-trad, I feel pressured to move as quickly as possible. But I thankfully have enough experience with other endeavors to know there is a lot to be said about slow and steady winning the race ; )
Given my predominant social science and humanities background, with very little in the hard sciences, I think the summer intensive ochem might be jumping the gun.
Thank you all again so much! This forum is priceless!
Jeremy
Don’t mean to steal this thread but my Q is related. I want to take
CHEM II(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
PHYS I(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
GENERAL BIOL
in summer. I don’t work, school is all I will be doing.
What do you guys think?
Quote:
Don’t mean to steal this thread but my Q is related. I want to take
CHEM II(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
PHYS I(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
GENERAL BIOL
in summer. I don’t work, school is all I will be doing.
What do you guys think?
I personally think that’s too much for a summer session especially if labs are included. I’d take 2 of the 3 classes and even that is going to be a ton of work.
Too much for the summer…remember there is NO room for error for a returning non-trad trying to impress adcoms…take it SLOW at first and then IF you find yourself with TONS of time and you are aceing ALL your courses then and only then consider bumping up the load. It is different “thinking” you can do it versus actually doing it and being in the trenches. So do not rush into it like there is no tomorrow…medical school will always be there and it is best to start off with a good foot than trip and have to start over…
Quote:Quote:
Don’t mean to steal this thread but my Q is related. I want to take
CHEM II(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
PHYS I(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
GENERAL BIOL
in summer. I don’t work, school is all I will be doing.
What do you guys think?
I personally think that’s too much for a summer session especially if labs are included. I’d take 2 of the 3 classes and even that is going to be a ton of work.
It is not shortened term though, I will have 4 months, it is just like a regular semester at the Univ of Minnesota. Do you folks still think it is too much? May be I am being over confident because I had taken them before and did well.
Quote:
Don’t mean to steal this thread but my Q is related. I want to take
CHEM II(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
PHYS I(repeat, had it 18 years ago)
GENERAL BIOL
in summer. I don’t work, school is all I will be doing.
What do you guys think?
…It is not shortened term though, I will have 4 months, it is just like a regular semester at the Univ of Minnesota. Do you folks still think it is too much? May be I am being over confident because I had taken them before and did well.
So you are going to the U of M? I took physics there and some chem and worked in the chem department. (Oh, and I also tutored some of those classes.) If you list the exact names of the classes and the dates, I might be able to tell you a little about them. If you want you could also PM me who’s teaching, and I might even have had a class with them.
PS. Wow, this is my 600th post! (And only my 80th or so which I have not spent bemoaning the injustices faced by poor innocent community college graduates! Ha ha, I must be branching out.
)
Pushkin,
If you are the Pushkin that used to work at IBM Rochester, I think I know you Yes, I will need help with picking the right section of classes.
Thanks!