I know I’ve read about people doing badly in college, and then eventually going on to become a doctor. I have no idea how they do it though.
I graduated right around a 3.0. My science GPA is better, a hair over 3.5, but I’ve been doing the math, and I don’t know how to bring up the average to a ~3.4. Even if I take another 10 undergrad generic classes, with all A’s, that still only brings me up to a 3.2.
Taking upper level science classes to bring it up seems like suicide. One B or C could negate the entire endeavor.
Just feeling kind of low at this point. I’ve been working hard, but am falling into a “not attainable” sort of mood. Being 45, I just don’t feel I have the time or resources to do this another couple of years.
Just had to vent.
- jimi44 Said:
I graduated right around a 3.0. My science GPA is better, a hair over 3.5, but I've been doing the math, and I don't know how to bring up the average to a ~3.4. Even if I take another 10 undergrad generic classes, with all A's, that still only brings me up to a 3.2.
Taking upper level science classes to bring it up seems like suicide. One B or C could negate the entire endeavor.
Just feeling kind of low at this point. I've been working hard, but am falling into a "not attainable" sort of mood. Being 45, I just don't feel I have the time or resources to do this another couple of years.
Just had to vent.
"Many people complain about the weather but nobody does anything about it" attributed to mark twain
In many ways you CAN'T impact an overall GPA that is based on an old, bad, undergraduate degree. So, stop focusing on it.
Instead, focus on a new post-bacc GPA, which will be reported separately in both AMCAS and AACOMAS applications. That you can do something about.
And also remember Rule 6: the MCAT is your friend!
Do a good post-bacc, a good MCAT, and you have a good chance to get into medical school
I realize that a formal post-bacc would probably look better than the informal taking of the four additional science classes I needed to take. My understanding is that you can’t typically even get into a formal program without at least a 3.0, which I’m skating, but not over.
So how are post-bacc grades differentiated? It looked to me from reading, that ALL undergrad grades, are lumped together. Science of course being it’s own category, but also in the same overall GPA.
It’s amazing how much damage something like that stupid ECON 101 class that I forgot to drop back in 1994 can do. Obviously, that isn’t the only thing on there, but one takes a lot of getting work to overcome. Looks like you have to have an A in 6 equivalent classes to bring a single F up to a 3.42.
So if I only have a few post-bacc classes to take, I guess I should just plan on taking a bunch more? Would taking a bunch of easy science classes (non-degree seeking types of classes) benefit me at all, both in boosting science and overall GPA? I also thought about liberal arts classes.
Though they might prepare me better for med school, taking upper level science classes as a GPA booster doesn’t seem like the best strategy. I’m thinking short-term here obviously, but getting accepted is my big hump.
I think you’re focused a little too much on the GPA as being the main factor that’s going to get you in (or keep you out) of medical school.
- In reply to:
In your case, no. You are focusing too much on bringing up your GPA and not enough on proving to medical schools that you are capable of doing med school level work. Doing well in upper level science courses is going to benefit you far more than taking "easy" science courses. Med schools will look at the courses you have taken (particularly the recent ones). Thus, while you may bring your GPA up, they are still going to see that you did that while not taking particularly challenging courses.
- In reply to:
So how are post-bacc grades differentiated? It looked to me from reading, that ALL undergrad grades, are lumped together. Science of course being it's own category, but also in the same overall GPA.
There is a separate line on the AMCAS grade calculation for post-bacc grades (broken into science and non-science. Somewhere on here (a long time ago) pi1304 posted a graphic of what the GPA breakdown actually looks like on the completed application. So, it's very easy for med schools to see your awesome post-bacc GPA.
In essence, there are lines for Freshman, Sophmore, Junior, Senior years, Graduate, Post-bacc, Cumulative undergrad. On each line, the GPA is broken into science and non-science. So, for example, my overall undergrad GPA ended up being something like a 3.1, but my post-bacc GPA (science and non-science) was a 3.96. - In reply to:
Yes, it probably would. But so would taking additional upper level coursework in addition to the four courses you need to take. A formal post-bacc is far from necessary. What is necessary is to prove to med schools that you have the academic chops to handle the curriculum. You do that by doing well in the pre-reqs, doing well on the MCAT, and doing well in upper level science courses. IMO, taking easier courses just to boost your GPA is not going to do you that much good.
You have to ignore the posted AVERAGE GPAs out there. They are exactly that - averages. So while the vast majority of accepted students hover around that average, there are also a fair number of outliers (above and below). So, focus less on how to boost your GPA (which is, as you pointed out, a difficult task), and more on proving you are med school material by crushing the MCAT, your remaining pre-reqs and some additional courses. And actually, your science GPA isn't really bad, so I don't see the need to worry about boosting your cumulative undergrad GPA.
yeah, what emergency said!
I have seen in the past few years a noticeable shift in the perception that medical school is not simply very hard to get into but has reached proportions of mythical near impossibility to do so. This perception maybe a factor that in people self-selecting away from medical school. This observation is based on the applicant to acceptee ratio for allopathic is hovering at about 2.2.
A few other thoughts, observations and musings
- Yes medical school is hard to get into but not impossible. You are suffering from Rule 10: FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. This kills more premeds than GPA and MCAT combined
- You can’t change the past so trying to do so is putting much time, money and effort for minor effect on overall GPA will not work. Focusing on it will drive yourself crazy.
- Focusing on post-bacc grades (whether formal or informal) and making that a key point in your narrative
- Lastly, many fine applicants getting scared off before then even apply. Your are thinking of spending 7 to 10 years in medical school and residency training at a cost effectively of several hundred thousand dollars. I think the small relative investment in time and money to do a part-time, informal post-bacc at a state school is worth it. I did mine over three years at a total cost including books and an MCAT prep class for under $15K.
Will it guarantee an acceptance? No.
Will it make me a much better applicant? Yes.
Will it feed my soul and heart to have tried instead of wondering about it the rest of my life? Absolutely.
Thank you all for the advice.
FUD. Yes, that has hit hard for some reason in the last few weeks. Not sure why.
I’ll keep reminding myself to just focus on the future, not the past. I’ll stick with working up the ladder of biology and chemistry classes at school. If I end up not doing well at them, then certainly I won’t handle medical school well. I think I’ll do well though.
I’m starting some volunteering next weekend as well. Looking forward to that.
Thank you for that Richard! I just signed up today on this site after typing a google search on “too old 30’s poor grads”. I’ve been volunteering at a large hospital for 3 months now and was contemplating going back to school for nursing. However, I’ve wanted to be an oncologist since I was a little girl. I’ve been thinking that at 33 I’m too old to go back plus my grades were tragically bad not from lack of ability but from lack of focus. Your line about satisfying the heart and soul on having at least tried, at least making the attempt, well… that really hit home!