chem 1---> Orgo1

How necessary was chem two for orgo? just wondering…

Acid / base


Here:


What is the difference between H2SO4 and Na2SO4?


What is the difference between KaOC(CH3)3 and HOC(CH3)3?


What is the difference between NaOH and NaI?


What is the difference in charge on NH3 and NH2?


Can you draw structures?


Do you understand isomers?


Do you understand resonance?


I could go on and list a lot more. If you do not understand at an electron level what is happening with the above, Ochem doesn’t teach you that - it’s expected you know it.


Ochem takes that previous knowledge and runs with it. Like the wind. In ND. During winter.


Also, can you tell me what the sp3, sp2, and sp structures look like? Bond angles?


It’s really important, or at least it was in my class, to understand the above. Thoroughly.


I had gen chem II in spring 2010 and my slight lapse in understanding stunted my understanding of ochem.


Can you overcome the lack of gen chem II? Sure. But if it makes it easier to pass ochem, why would you chance it?


Also, MCAT. Lots on there re: gen chem II.

I *think I could answer all those with some review, its been a year. Problem is I cant take chem 2 this semester, but I can take Orgo 1


What is the difference between H2SO4(acid) and Na2SO4 (salt)?


What is the difference between KaOC(CH3)3 (base) and HOC(CH3)3 (acid)?


What is the difference between NaOH (acid) and NaI (salt)?


What is the difference in charge on NH3 (0) and NH2 (-1)?





Can you draw structures? mhm


Do you understand isomers? we just barely touched on this


Do you understand resonance? mhm


Also, can you tell me what the sp3 (tetrahedral/109.5), sp2 (trigonal/120), and sp (linear/180) structures look like? Bond angles?


I some of these are obviously really off.


How far are you into your classes? I need a progress buddy

  • HipChick Said:
I *think I could answer all those with some review, its been a year. Problem is I cant take chem 2 this semester, but I can take Orgo 1

What is the difference between H2SO4(acid) and Na2SO4 (salt)?

What is the difference between KaOC(CH3)3 (base) and HOC(CH3)3 (acid)?

What is the difference between NaOH (acid) and NaI (salt)?

What is the difference in charge on NH3 (0) and NH2 (-1)?



Can you draw structures? mhm

Do you understand isomers? we just barely touched on this

Do you understand resonance? mhm

Also, can you tell me what the sp3 (tetrahedral/109.5), sp2 (trigonal/120), and sp (linear/180) structures look like? Bond angles?

I some of these are obviously really off.

How far are you into your classes? I need a progress buddy



The only one that is wrong is the NaOH - it is a very strong base...

The thing is:

the first part about ochem is knowing what is what - the next thing is knowing how each of those will react with starting materials.

Yes, the one is a salt, but what does that mean, really? Does it stay together in solvent? (No.)

For instance, on exam prep (aka homework problems):

I took NaOCH3 against a secondary carbon via Sn2, which may or may not be correct depending on solvent. However, HOCH3 will react differently and give a different product.

Knowing the differences between all the acids/bases used in ochem 1, how they react, WHY they react as they do, is the difference between A and B, or worse.

The other thing is: we only get a certain amount of time/chances/grades to apply to be considered a credible applicant. Why risk that chance?

I'm almost done with pre-reqs (biochem, physio, and evolution this semester).

But I will help in ochem if asked. I really, really liked the class; just wish my study habits had been changed earlier (I studied upward of 20 hours each weekend - EACH - whether or not there was an exam, and if there was, that up'd to about 26 - 30 hours over a weekend; however, I did nothing during the week until my final... that was the missing, critical piece; and my A- on the final showed that change).

Last, and part of my edit,

the thing that threw me along with acid/base, all semester long, was stereochem. I really, really had to work at "seeing" the differences between enantiomers, diastereomers, diastereotopic, and enantiotopic molecules. Chirality and achiral/meso were easy.

I did take OChem 1 after Chem 1 like you intend to do, but I already knew some of this stuff well.


I would say that if you review things like Acid Base (in the Lewis sense), relative strengths, then I think you should be OK. I aced my OChem 1 class, and I was working and it was a summer course. So, it is very doable. But again, I knew this stuff already.


Good luck.

  • redo-it-all Said:
I did take OChem 1 after Chem 1 like you intend to do, but I already knew some of this stuff well.

So, it is very doable. But again, I knew this stuff already.



You also have a PhD ... which is a very different background than most of us who have not completed the regiment of a dissertation and research to write and defend one.

Adoc2be


I agree with you and I didn’t mean to be dismissive in any way.


But remembering how much not having completed Chem 2 did hurt me, I can honestly say that Chem 2, in my opinion is not necessary to do well in OChem 1, except perhaps everything that relates to Acid/Base.


And even with acid base, the needed notions are conceptual (i.e. titration is not even part of Ochem). So I do maintain that it is possible to do well in OChem 1 without Chem 2. Obviously, the amount of work necessary will vary from not too much (like in my case) to a lot.


Gen Chem is vary algebra based, OChem is very conceptual based. In my opinion they are totally different. In fact, when I originally attended these classes, Gen Chem and OChem were studied simultaneously.

Didn’t take it as dismissive - I just believe that anyone with a PhD has a leg up on anything course related.


A dissertation on reflective basket weaving still requires a hypothesis, data gathering, fund requests, data analysis, repeat if results are inconclusive, and more data gathering, whereupon, one writes… for days only to be put on stage in front of professors before who grill you on the merits of certain conclusions.


That thought process is not inherent in the rest of us. And, to me, ochem is all about memorizing a bunch of crap to synthesize crap to push crap out of said lead onto a piece of paper to show how crap is produced.


Not saying your PhD was basket weaving…

Im LMAO… thanks and I CAN NOT BELIEVE that I put acid considering NAOH is what what my family (minus me) uses in their HAIR to straighten it (lye… yes I am NOT lying either).


I guess I’ll just have to weight it out. I just need courses this spring and I fear taking orgo in the summer.

I would not take orgo in the summer.


Can you take another bio class? or history of med? or something? take gen chem and orgo in order and I would not take either in the summer… especially organic.


FAR too much material for a full length semester, let alone a shortened one.


(It’s okay with NaOH - I hit a molecule only capable of sustaining Sn2 reactions with an acid - strong acid… and I’d been studying the stuff!)

looks like I found a physics one course this upcoming semester in my hometown (45min away) and this summer probaby chem 2 (i took chem 1 in the summer and LOVED the prof, great guy) or maybe a bio. I want to get in two courses this summer somehow. I wish we could afford two this semester…