Hi everyone. Been awhile. I’ve been so busy planning a move to be closer to med school (I’m already local but I’m moving even closer) and finishing up my degree and finally trying to take a breath away from the pre-med hustle for awhile. It’ll be the med school hustle soon! YAY on that!
Anyway, I just had to share with my fellow OPMers this little interaction I had today. I was at a cosmetic center (you know, the places with all manor of anti-aging and weight loss fixes from laser lipo to Radiesse, etc.) getting a B12 shot and the person giving me the shot today was new to me. Turns out this person is an MD and we got to talking after I asked where this doc went to med school and what this doc was trained in. Turns out Emergency Medicine and when I mentioned that I was starting med school in August the advice I received was to run for the hills, get out before I’m in, go be an NP or PA, but don’t go to med school, don’t be a doctor. This person went on to tell me how many holidays were worked in the past, how much of a beating it was, how it took the doc away from the kids and family functions, how out of 20 med school alumni Dr. X talked to at a reunion recently, all 20 said they would never do it again. I told Dr. X that this was actually the first time I have heard a Doc in my many encounters be so resoundingly negative and discouraging. Dr. X looked at me like I was the biggest fool Dr. X ever encountered and sarcastically wished me good luck and said that well, let’s see you in 8 years and see how you feel. Dr. X talked about how going into medicine 20 years ago would be a good choice (Dr. X is maybe old enough to have made this choice 20 years ago), 10 years ago it was an okay choice, 5 years ago a risky choice and Dr. X basically said to go into medicine right now is pretty much downright stupid. I was a bit surprised by Dr. X’s overwhelming negativity toward another person’s choice, but clearly it smells of something really bad that must have rubbed Dr. X the wrong way and decide to “leave medicine”. Dr. X clearly is still in “medicine” but working at a cosmetic center (and not having been trained in derm, plastics, etc) must mean a really different kind of medical practice and I have no idea of the details of that. But, Dr. X did paint the picture that Dr. X pretty much did leave medicine as most of us know it. Dr. X is young yet, too. Young like I’m young. lol. Late 30’s or early 40’s. So, Dr. X is probably not more than 42 I’d say.
I have heard horror stories from docs and my own internist (who is a former pharmacist) complains about various things wrong w/ medicine today but even with the problems and the issues and complaints I’ve heard I have not heard from any of these other docs such a huge warning to not go into medicine. Many say that they would do it again. Most do not think I’m crazy. Most know what I mean when I say I just had to do this. Just had to go through all the premedical hoops and just have to go into medicine. It feels to me, like the most natural choice for me.
So, after this interaction with Dr. X I must say I am not discouraged. I respect and appreciate the experiences of those who have gone before me and I do listen. However, in the end, aren’t we all just following our own personal dreams? Don’t most of us need to see the other side for ourselves? If all of us going to medical school should be running for the hills or becoming NPs or PAs then what? I’m sure there are many out there who regret the decision to attend medical school, who regret years of training and debt, who miss the time they cannot get back to spend with their children, who are disgusted with the current state of medicine and healthcare in general. I get it. I do. But, I still have the courage to go out there and see it for myself. To make that “mistake” on my own, or find out I did the best possible thing for me.
I tested the waters of a few nursing classes four years ago and I knew in my gut it was not what I wanted. I would not be satisfied with it. PA the same feeling. I dreamed of being a doctor when I was kid. I am that cliché. It took me awhile to get here having several detours, but here I am. I am proud to be entering medicine. I know it’s not perfect. I am not delusional. I know I’m going to miss some holidays, birthdays, vacations, school plays and the like along the way. I know I’m going to have massive debt. I’m not naïve. This isn’t a profession to enter into lightly.
I guess I felt marginally defensive when Dr. X was on Dr. X’s “tirade” but I knew in the end nothing I would say would matter anyway. I knew when I left the office Dr. X was likely telling the receptionist how nuts I was. And, you know what? I don’t care. I’m sure I’ll have plenty of days in med school that I will feel beat down and bitchy and the same during residency and practice. I know the debt is threatening to overwhelm me already (I just did my exit financial aid counseling for undergrad and it was positively nauseating just to see those numbers), and that time is already on my mind. I am moving closer to school and closer to family to help out with some of that. However, I also know that if I didn’t do this I’d regret it forever and I’m in the business of eliminating as many regrets as possible these days.
So, I had to share because I know I’m among like minded others. I know some of us are still premeds, some of us have been accepted but have yet to get that short coat, some of us are in the middle of med school or residency, and others here are practicing. We probably all have our own levels of comfort or discomfort as it were about our decisions, but we’re still here. We’re still doing it. There is something to be said for that.
The only thing I can say is always take the extremes with the grain of salt. This guy kind of sounds like a guy who thought his life would be like an episode of “ER” and once he found out that it wasn’t, decided to make as much cash as possible. In my mind speeding all day at one of those places practicing “medicine” would be akin to getting your law degree and becoming an ambulance chaser.
As far as his opinions of the current state of medicine, Yeah things are changing, the money may not be as good, but as someone who came from the lucrative world of business let me tell you, I am 100xs happier now.
More like a bag of salt, BaileyPup! lol. Everyone’s experience is different. As it turns out, Dr. X only finished the EM residency in 2011 and in that same year started work at the cosmetic center. My curiosity got the best of me and I hit Google for more info! I guess doing Botox and fillers is just what the dr. ordered for Dr. X. To each their own. I do not judge Dr. X’s choice per se, but I did not appreciate the sarcastic and discouraging attitude either. I just wanted a B12 shot and was curious about Dr. X’s education when I realized Dr. X was X, M.D. and not just another one of the aestheticians/techs who usually gives me my shot. Dr. X seemed rather uncomfortable with my asking, too.
Dr. X also had a bit to say about gender and medicine as well. It was an interesting conversation, but yeah, one I take with a big ole bag of salt. I’d love to know what happened to turn Dr. X so against medicine (as Dr. X was trained in it anyway) in such a very short time. Dr. X isn’t even quite 5 years out of med school and finished a 3 year EM residency and moved right on out of “traditional” medicine. If it was an “old timer” telling me battle stories I’d be less shocked, but to be so jaded so fast and so loud about it is really surprisingly given Dr. X’s small amount of time in the field. I really am curious what the story is. Of course, it may not be that juicy. Maybe it’s just someone who chose the wrong career. Most of us here can relate to that! 
It’s unfortunate when there is such a negative attitude coming from a physician. Unfortunately we will likely never know the source of that.
Did he/she do poorly in residency?
Did he/she not get the residency they wanted and settled on a secondary specialty?
Does he/she have too big of a life style and can’t afford it?
Did he/she go into medicine because of the wrong reasons, and now regrets it?
There are so many reasons not to go into medicine, and it sounds like Dr. X may have picked one of those reasons.
I think all of us should keep this in mind as we go through this. I worked as a social worker in the emergency department for a total of five years. I can understand not wanting to do EM. Just in the last year I was talking to two other MDs who are my age (mid-forties), and I said to them, “I don’t know how you do it.” They commiserated a little bit. They didn’t say that it was hell on earth or anything that extreme, but they confirmed that it is a hard path. Both of them aren’t married and have no kids (one is male, one is female).
Another story that I heard through the ED grapevine was the story of a young ED doc, female, who got sued five million because one of the patients that she had seen dropped dead later. I don’t know the details, but my ED physician friend said that he would have done the exact same thing that she had done, and he was upset that she lost the case. My friend said that he offered to help this young ED doc a job; that’s how much he felt for her. He said that she didn’t want to go back to the Ed and was probably going to work in urgent care.
It’s definitely hard but will I continue down this path? For now, yes, but personally I would heed this acquaintance physician’s words. It’s not easy. I keep going down this path because from my perspective the career of a social worker is not great either. I have weighed my other options and they aren’t great. I could spend 100k in a PhD program for psych (hard to get into a fully funded PHD program) and make 100k. In fact, I still weigh this option…it’s one of my back up plans. If I go the DNP route, it’s about the same amount of time as what I’m doing now. Anyway, just some thoughts that I wanted to share. I do to want o discourage anyone from going down this path, but I don’t think that what he said was false either.
I think all of us should keep this in mind as we go through this. I worked as a social worker in the emergency department for a total of five years. I can understand not wanting to do EM. Just in the last year I was talking to two other MDs who are my age (mid-forties), and I said to them, “I don’t know how you do it.” They commiserated a little bit. They didn’t say that it was hell on earth or anything that extreme, but they confirmed that it is a hard path. Both of them aren’t married and have no kids (one is male, one is female).
Another story that I heard through the ED grapevine was the story of a young ED doc, female, who got sued five million because one of the patients that she had seen dropped dead later. I don’t know the details, but my ED physician friend said that he would have done the exact same thing that she had done, and he was upset that she lost the case. My friend said that he offered to help this young ED doc a job; that’s how much he felt for her. He said that she didn’t want to go back to the Ed and was probably going to work in urgent care.
It’s definitely hard but will I continue down this path? For now, yes, but personally I would heed this acquaintance physician’s words. It’s not easy. I keep going down this path because from my perspective the career of a social worker is not great either. I have weighed my other options and they aren’t great. I could spend 100k in a PhD program for psych (hard to get into a fully funded PHD program) and make 100k. In fact, I still weigh this option…it’s one of my back up plans. If I go the DNP route, it’s about the same amount of time as what I’m doing now. Anyway, just some thoughts that I wanted to share. I do NOT want to discourage anyone from going down this path, but I don’t think that what he said was false either.
The more I think about it, and encounter a few doctors with the same opinions, the more I think it comes from a place of entitlement. Every job has its downsides, some very much so depending on what bugs you.
Doctors put in a huge amount of time, money and effort into training. Certainly we all know this and know the sacrifices we’re making or will have to make. I think some physicians believe they should have a magic workplace where adversity doesn’t exist because of that, and that they deserve as much. I’ve heard it more from young doctors than old-timers, actually.
It’s an unfortunate attitude. No one is forcing us to go into medicine and in reality, all of us here are working very hard to get there – no one is forcing us in the least. That doesn’t mean we’re owed anything.
It’s my bias showing, but it’s another reason I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea to have med school filled with younger folks. Get some life experiences under your belt, be in a workplace, see that nothing’s perfect no matter where you work, then decide if you’re willing to make all of those sacrifices for an imperfect career in an imperfect health system.
All great comments as expected from an overall intelligent, mature audience here at OPM!
I agree, Tallulah Philange, that there is a problem of entitlement in some circles both due to very general differences in how some of the younger generation (s) have been educated, raised, etc. But, I hate blanket stereotypes, too, so I am hesitant to blame attitudes on one general set of characteristics. However, yes, I too have encountered a lot of attitudes of entitlement from younger “millennials”. However, I’ve also seen it as a class issue which is probably a more “useful” generalization though again I am hesitant to make such generalizations across the board. I guess, despite the statistics that tell me that most med schools are comprised of the privileged, I still manage to “forget” this fact, but in many cases the privileged are just well, privileged! Many are used to having some things “easier” and despite the fact that medicine is a demanding career and that getting there is monumentally demanding and highly competitive, I do agree that on some levels with some segments of the professional medical population, there is an attitude that once they get the M.D and make it through residency they should be “done” and fully catered to.
So, while I don’t believe it’s entirely a problem that can be blamed on just the young or just the privileged, it is an attitude probably more likely to be seen in those groups. I do agree, Tallulah, that life experience, and some real workplace experience is so important. I think my real world experiences will absolutely shield me in many ways from the disillusionment and the expectations. Those of us with the real world under our belts understand the pervasive imperfections that exist across all systems, but we’ve also learned how to deal with it, recognize the areas that are worth fighting for or attempting to change, and how not to let life bring us down. Many of us older students and many of us from non-privileged backgrounds (regardless of age) also recognize that getting into medical school is a privilege (even if it does cost us more money than we’ve ever known!), and be able to practice medicine the ultimate privilege. I think others see it the other way around and expect patients to feel privileged that “we” have sacrificed our lives to “help” them. Wrong. It’s our choice. We are privileged to get this extensive training, to have the opportunity to SERVE our communities in such a really rather intimate way. Those of us with that attitude will have the attitude of respect for their patients, empathy that comes naturally, and the fortitude to make it through the rougher times that will come w/o any doubt in any career but certainly in a career in medicine in any country, but especially right now in the US.
Doc Gray you make some excellent points as well that as far as Dr. X is concerned we will never know what happened, but your proposed possibilities can help all of us be careful as we enter medical school and look ahead to residency. It’s a cautionary tale, and these points remind me to always remind myself why I am going into medicine.
To csl7733, it sounds like you have a very unique insight as a social worker. It also sounds like you have a sound mind and understand how to navigate this medical world in a way that works for you. You have the experience and the self-knowledge to constantly be assessing and re-assessing your own journey and making decisions appropriate for you along the way. That’s an excellent trait and an important one in life in general but especially for those of us entering medicine or attempting to.
Best of luck to all of us!
It’s a work ethic issue. The transplant surgeon/immunologist I worked for ~90 hours/week. He would spend eight hours in surgery and another eight in the lab. I told him I just couldn’t see working that much. He agreed and said that even if he didn’t come to the lab he would just schedule more surgeries because he absolutely loves being in the OR. Find something in medicine you love to do and do that and then tell me how much time you’ll limit yourself to doing what you love.
It sounds to me that the new crop of EM docs went into the specialty under the mistaken notion that it was a lifestyle specialty. Naturally it depends how you define lifestyle but most would say that working nights, weekends, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries…would not classify as a lifestyle specialty. EM offers great time off but it isn’t when you want it. There is also the issue of shift work going from days to nights.
The physicians I’ve spoken to who recommend not going into medicine are without fail traditional students who never had a “real” job and were sold a bill of goods about medicine that just ain’t so. Now I have spoken to a few nontrad physicians and they fall into the category of having chosen the wrong specialty for themselves. Finally my recommendation is always to note we all react to things differently but look passed the doom & gloom and listen to what they are saying and not saying. Someone who went straight from residency into something else has a major backstory and is not even giving you half of the story.
Keep stumbling forward. Continue to speak and listen to those who are less than champions of our decision. Even in their negativity they can help us formulate a better plan. Like for me, holidays or any of those “special” days are just another day. The time off is significant enough for me to highly consider EM…however the medico-legal aspect is huge as well so there is that.
Go into whatever with eyes wide open. So we do ourselves a disservice to go into this with rose-colored glasses and romanticizing the profession.