spoke to premed advisor the other day who specializes in getting people into top tier med. schools and who claims to have non-grad route experience.
The end result is very discouraging and here are reasons, according to her, why I have very little chance:
age (will be mid-50s when ready to apply)
being an NP: “if you could have become MD, you would have by now…” :o “adcoms do not like nurses…”
online pre-reqs courses “many schools do not like online”
“combination of all the above is a recipe for failure…”
“I would need to have out of this world MCAT” to atone for above sins, I would be “severely limiting my choices” otherwise.
It seems did not matter that my GPA is 3.8, (science 4.0). And it did not seem important that I wanted to become physician way before becoming a nurse and had to do latter path out of desperation (financial that is) and immigration (toughing it out the traditional early 1900s style).
I had a feeling that she was just not interested in helping me at all. I probably would not be the easiest case and not someone who she would brag about… Or, may be she was just being brutally honest… ?
How I am planning to overcome my downfalls:
Age: I cannot change it unfortunately. Although, I am a firm believer that age is a relative thing. My father in law ran 5 miles up hill every day, until he was 92 yo. And yes, if Hillary is running for president at 68… As NP, I have seen plenty of patients in family practice on both ends of spectrum: premature aging and robust youthfulness in octogenarian.
Being NP: if adcoms do not discard my application and get to the “personal statement” part, I may be able to convince them. (Side thought: Also, based on results of my pre-med research, I found out that adcoms do like clinical experience. So, I am confused…)
Online pre-med: I am thinking hard about risking my job and starting “brick and mortar”. And yes, I would have to get As in everything and get 528 on MCAT.
A little background: I have spoken to adcom at one NYC med. school back in late 1990-s. I had a BS back then with Magna Cum Laude from very same school’s nursing program. Adcom was also discouraging even back then: first, I was a “nurse”, which was going against me for a totally different reason: I needed to be well versed in other things like arts and humanities and nursing was not a creative enough of a background. Second, I had CC courses, which was not looked upon fondly. It was recommended that I took pre-med classes at a “tough 4-yr colleges” to have a fighting chance. I listened and took chem1, got B and gave up. Many others were telling me as well: I can’t and should not, and I just stay being a nurse/NP, “it is a good profession”! As a result, I have wasted 20 years in self-doubt.
Can I do it? Yes! Motivation is not the problem. However, when PRE-MED advisor(s) (never mind the “others”) tell one these sorts of things, it can be quite discouraging… Hence, I am looking for an HONEST “Second Opinion” among you, guys.
Hope nurses who had success read this post and also shine some light here.
Hello Orange. I’m sorry you had such a discouraging discussion with your pre med advisor.
Age: schools seem to be getting more non trad friendly every year. They see experience as a boon. Don’t get me wrong, there’s ageism out there but it’s school/program dependent, not a generalizable guideing principal.
NP: Yes clinical experience is a plus. You have a better idea of what you’re getting into. Anecdotally I’ve had many classmates that were former nurses and their skills and experience gave them an edge compared to those of us that had no background.
Online pre-reqs: Ok so this may be an issue. Some schools will just not accept them. You will have to do the legwork and contact schools you’re interested in to find out if they do.
Obviously an amazing MCAT will give you more options, just as it would for any applicant.
Reading your post something stood out to me. “I listened and took chem1, got B and gave up.” This is something you’re going to have to work on, because med school is way more difficult then 4 year university classes and you’re going to need the grit to push through. Being able to use set backs as motivation instead of seeing them as a confirmation of failure is a big part of performing well in school and beyond. Otherwise you’ll get eaten up and sink on rotations and in residency.
I do not think your situation is as dire as you have been told. Any deficits you have in your application there are clear ways to improve.
thank you very much for your support! That was some serious premed counseling You are so right, re: grit. “Getting B and giving up” has been certainly a lesson for me. In my defense though, I have to say, I had zero network and support at that time. There were no podcasts and forums with supportive members ;)(internet was in its infancy). Had it happened today, I most likely would not have given up so easily…
The first point at issue, really, is to what extent are you internalizing what basically amounts to the personal opinion of your adviser. Certainly, we ought to take very seriously what our advisers have to say as they, for better or worse, are uniquely positioned to provide us essential feedback, be it positive or negative. However, everything (literally, EVERYTHING) that an adviser, or a professor, or a physician, or your grandmother says to you with regard to your journey to being a physician MUST be taken with a proverbial grain of salt. It is one thing to intently listen to the opinions of another concerning your past, present, and future life as a prospective physician, it is an entirely different thing to PERMIT that opinion to be the death knell for your dreams. In other words, you can accept it as useful criticism and motivation or you can allow it to, as you stated, “crush” you.
Synchronous highlighted very well the consequential factors that should be the focus of your attention, namely, the “issue” of online pre-reqs and the MCAT. Other than that those other “factors” ,such as being a nurse and (Heavens to Betsy!) your age are, when placed in proper perspective, non-issues. If you treat them as such and continue to pursue your dream with renewed passion you will find later on that, once you have succeeded, the rather acerbic thoughts of your adviser will turn out to have had no real value.
As a former pre-med student advisor, I would suggest that you skip the advising altogether. Admissions requirements can be found on your prospective school’s webpages, and specific questions like “would you accept UNE’s online pre-med courses?” are best answered by emailing said admissions departments directly. It sounds like your advisor has experience at failing to get accepted at med school. Ditch them and go it on your own, with OPM for support.
As a former pre-med student advisor, I would suggest that you skip the advising altogether. Admissions requirements can be found on your prospective school’s webpages, and specific questions like “would you accept UNE’s online pre-med courses?” are best answered by emailing said admissions departments directly. It sounds like your advisor has experience at failing to get accepted at med school. Ditch them and go it on your own, with OPM for support.
I’ve wondered for a while now, what is the best way to approach the admissions department? I’ve tried at two schools to get in contact with them, and in both cases I get connected with an adviser rather than someone in admissions. I was under the assumption they did that in order to “shield” the admissions department from crazy pre med students
As a former pre-med student advisor, I would suggest that you skip the advising altogether. Admissions requirements can be found on your prospective school’s webpages, and specific questions like “would you accept UNE’s online pre-med courses?” are best answered by emailing said admissions departments directly. It sounds like your adviser has experience at failing to get accepted at med school. Ditch them and go it on your own, with OPM for support.
something I’ve often wondered myself. Somewhere, there is probably an actual, real life, MD that does pre-med counseling; but everywhere else it will be a non-MD. So a non-expert, and non-MD is telling you all about a journey they have zilch experience in. It’s up to you to weigh the usefulness of one person’s opinion and decide if it’s profound stuff, more/less educated than your own, or more/less educated than the drunkard at the end of the bar.
An advisor that mentions age is one thing. An advisor who has an attitude of “what makes you think you could pull this off” is just noise in the way of what you’re trying to listen to…
Thank you guys for your fantastic words of wisdom and support. Yes, we have to find strength within ourselves. Is is possible that the reason why we all are here as OLD pre-meds is that some of us have allowed ourselves to be influenced by others for long enough to become OLD pre-meds.
I read somewhere that when Malcom X mentioned to his teacher in high school that he wanted to become an attorney, that teacher advised that he will have a better chance to work in a factory… (details may not be super accurate as far as professions, but you get the point).
It sounds like your advisor has experience at failing to get accepted at med school. Ditch them and go it on your own, with OPM for support.
I did get a third opinion from a family doc who has been practicing x 30 years and who was my mentor when I became an NP. He has been chief of staff at a major teaching hospital in my area x many years. He laughed at the advise of the advisor and was extremely supportive. So, plugging along…
I’ll be applying in my 50’s after finishing my PhD. The only caveat I think of for age 40+ applicants is that they should be in good, normal BMI having health.
I also think age 40+ applicants should by-pass the "premed (non)adviser and communicate directly with med schools.
Looks like you’ve gotten some great advice already! Just thought I’d add that yesterday I was listening to the oldpremeds podcast (if you don’t listen to this or the premed years podcast I highly recommend you do!) and the host Ryan had a woman who began applying to medical school at the age of 52. Everyone said she was crazy but she pushed through her post bacc and is now a fourth year student about to start residency! So I believe that you absolutely can and will do it. Good luck to you!
Thank you for your reply and suggestion. I have been listening to all Dr. Gray podcasts and remember very well interview with Kate. She is fearsome! In that respect, what has been done before, can be done again, right? Of course we are all “crazy” on this forum to a certain degree to want to pursue our dreams of becoming a physician. But are there any achievers who were not termed “crazy” at one time or the other by the rest of the crowd?
re: g…s. Is is possible that the reason why we all are here as OLD pre-meds is that some of us have allowed ourselves to be influenced by others for long enough to become OLD pre-meds.
somebody here had a line in their signature that “you are here at this point in your life because of the decisions you have made or the decisions that you have allowed others to make for you.”
“Top Tier” means nothing, so forget the score-card mindset.
Your MCAT will be in mid-30s, so 528 seems unusual/unfamiliar to me = similar in percentile I imagine.
Mid-50s is old and for what is huge memorization mostly, and very little science = med-school.
Can be done in mid-50s age, but not as easily and effectively as younger brains, and this is a fact of life, not worth arguing about.
Always try to apply to in-state schools you are a resident of that state for, or some people are residents of two different states, so limit your applications to those schools.
If they think you have accrued too much mental baggage, as American lives have the tendency to do, the admissions committee will not take you. If you have tons of money and you own ten businesses and show no signs of nervousness about your life, then they are still reluctant to take older students, but mostly much older than 40 years old is almost not allowed. They will never tell you that as a reason, so do not bother expecting them to be honest about why they refuse.
Admission advisors like one kind of person = puppy dog lying undergrads that suck up to them and hang on their every word. Pretty much do well in classes is their best advice, and the rest is avoiding all rumors people claiming to want to help you lie about. Pre-Med Students rarely help other Pre-med students until they are accepted to a school themselves and even then they will act like they are giving you information, but not really. Get used to it, cuz that is the same for med-students. Most have only been academics and at adolescent age = selfish is natural behavior. No nurture here.
Otherwise, it is simple. Do what you want not what an advisor says.
In that respect, you should have learned by now that universities are functional in that they supply the paper needed to get a job. Asking an opinion from a person at any university is often not worth much more than a friend can advise.
No universities want to take on older students, no matter what they say. It makes little economic sense. Also we are odd ducks to fit into adolescent behavior. That being said, they prefer obsequious youth, and despise uppity older folks.
Do well on MCATs is the most important advice, and apply to American Schools if you are in mid-30s or even 30 on MCATs. What the advisor said(on here as you stated) means nothing. Good GPA helps, but standardized tests will rule the day from here on out, and you will need better standardized test results than younger students to get in.
It is a tough age discrimination case to bring and win damages for, so Universities do what they want, and by age 50 you should know that. Your advisor has a comfortable job with little stress, so he is not going to say that is why he suggests against it, so welcome to the American life of selective enforcement of laws and guessing where you really stand or what is really being said.
I know mid-50 year olds doing it, so do it if it pleases you. Many doctors during clinicals and residency will not like it, so be prepared.
“Top Tier” means nothing, so forget the score-card mindset.
Your MCAT will need to be in mid-30s percentile, so 528 seems unusual/unfamiliar for me, but may be about where the 30s equivalent percentile was before.
Mid-50s is old and for what is huge memorization mostly, and very little science = med-school.
Can be done in mid-50s age, but not as easily and effectively as younger brains, and this is a fact of life, not worth arguing about.
Always try to apply to in-state schools you are a resident of that state for, or some people are residents of two different states, so limit your applications to those schools.
If they think you have accrued too much mental baggage, as American lives have the tendency to do, the admissions committee will not take you. If you have tons of money and you own ten businesses and show no signs of nervousness about your life, then they are still reluctant to take older students, but mostly much older than 40 years old is almost not allowed. They will never tell you that as a reason, so do not bother expecting them to be honest about why they refuse.
Admission advisors like one kind of person = puppy dog lying undergrads that suck up to them and hang on their every word. Pretty much do well in classes is their best advice, and the rest is avoiding all rumors people claiming to want to help you lie about. Pre-Med Students rarely help other Pre-med students until they are accepted to a school themselves and even then they will act like they are giving you information, but not really. Get used to it, cuz that is the same for med-students. Most have only been academics and at adolescent age = selfish is natural behavior. No nurture here.
Otherwise, it is simple. Do what you want not what an advisor says.
In that respect, you should have learned by now that universities are functional in that they supply the paper needed to get a job. Asking an opinion from a person at any university is often not worth much more than a friend can advise.
No universities want to take on older students, no matter what they say. It makes little economic sense. Also we are odd ducks to fit into adolescent behavior. That being said, they prefer obsequious youth, and despise uppity older folks.
Do well on MCATs is the most important advice, and apply to American Schools if you are in mid-30s or even 30 on MCATs. What the advisor said(on here as you stated) means nothing. Good GPA helps, but standardized tests will rule the day from here on out, and you will need better standardized test results than younger students to get in.
It is a tough age discrimination case to bring and win damages for, so Universities do what they want, and by age 50 you should know that. Your advisor has a comfortable job with little stress, so he is not going to say that is why he suggests against it, so welcome to the American life of selective enforcement of laws and guessing where you really stand or what is really being said.
I know mid-50 year olds doing it, so do it if it pleases you. Many doctors during clinicals and residency will not like it, so be prepared.
…but not as easily and effectively as younger brains, and this is a fact of life, not worth arguing about.
>>>>>>>>>>>
It’s also definitely not worth arguing about the fact that as a PhD student in a computer science heavy program (Informatics) , I’m a 4.0GPA student at age 50. I also developed a photographic memory in my MS grad program in Medical Science/Pharmacology that I completed in my early 40’s, also with a high GPA. The courses I took WITH medical students in that program that were graded on the SAME scale as med students helped a TON with that.
Some people have brains that rot with time. Others improve. Mine did. OTHERS CAN TOO!!!
You are so right, re: grit. “Getting B and giving up” has been certainly a lesson for me. In my defense though, I have to say, I had zero network and support at that time. There were no podcasts and forums with supportive members ;)(internet was in its infancy). Had it happened today, I most likely would not have given up so easily…
