Hi Everyone,
I ran across this website in my search for some pre-med answers. I’m hoping that maybe someone in this forum can help give me a bit of direction.
I will be graduating from college this semester with a bachelors in psychology. I have always known I want to be a doctor. To make a long story short, my college career has been filled with changes in majors, 3 full semester medical withdrawals and several drops in general chemistry. So, that’s all the bad…but there is good too. I have taken some pre-med classes successfully: Calc1= A Bio1=B Bio2=A CHM1=A My overall GPA is a 3.59.
I have also had LOTS of volunteering, shadowing, leadership experience. I know more than anything that I want to be a doctor. The problem is that I’ve never really learned how to apply myself fully to something really challenging. Chemistry is so hard for me and I give up at the first sign of trouble because I know that med schools expect A’s, this is why I’ve dropped it so much.
I want to be realistic. I know my record looks really bad, but I want to hope that nothing is impossible. I’m considering doing a post-bac program but I’m really anxious about it. The pre-health advisor at my school basically told me that I would have to do practically perfect in post-bac and do exceptionally well on my MCATs even to stand a chance to get into med school.
Am I wasting my time?
Welcome! I believe it goes like this:
GPA overall
SCI GPA
MCAT
then Volunteering and shadowing and yes if it is on the record about the withdraws and drops then they see it. My advice is pay for an official transcript to be sent to you and see what it says then you can deal with anything in your personal statement. I would anyway cause it makes you human and if your GPA 3.59 then you have done well so far despite that. You said some of the prereqs so I take that to mean you still need some classes one thing you could do is apply to a post Bac, that is designed to help you get accepted into medschool, do well there and it is heavily looked at.
Good luck!
- sunshine301 Said:
I have also had LOTS of volunteering, shadowing, leadership experience. I know more than anything that I want to be a doctor. The problem is that I've never really learned how to apply myself fully to something really challenging. Chemistry is so hard for me and I give up at the first sign of trouble because I know that med schools expect A's, this is why I've dropped it so much.
I want to be realistic. I know my record looks really bad, but I want to hope that nothing is impossible. I'm considering doing a post-bac program but I'm really anxious about it. The pre-health advisor at my school basically told me that I would have to do practically perfect in post-bac and do exceptionally well on my MCATs even to stand a chance to get into med school.
Am I wasting my time?
Hello, and welcome!
I want to focus on the quoted part of your post. It sounds like your advisor has an... unforgiving understanding of getting into med school. Certainly, it's a challenge; certainly, you want to excel; based on stories of success I've seen, though, he may be overstating his case.
Generally speaking, your background sounds well-geared towards medicine, and you say you know it's what you want to do.
You've also very clearly identified your major hurdle: "The problem is that I've never really learned how to apply myself fully to something really challenging." That's a very important one - it's good that you've found it! It ties in well with some of the advice we toss around OPM here: that medical schools want to see that you've overcome challenges, because med school will, undoubtedly, be a challenge.
So the question becomes "why?" Has everything come easy to you? Are you risk-averse? Are you a perfectionist? What factors in your experiences and expectations make this so hard for you? And how can you overcome it? Given that your challenge is facing challenges... it's almost something of a circular cure. I'd be very curious to hear more about the origins of this; in the interim, I suspect the solution may be to step up and commit to a risk, and challenge yourself to excel, to handle all the hurdles on the way.
Hope to hear more from you soon, and again, welcome!
Has everything come easy to you? Are you risk-averse? Are you a perfectionist?
The answers are: yes, yes and yes.
Unfortunately, I know what the problems are, it’s just really hard to fix them because the only solution seems to take a risk; exactly what I feel so scared to do.
I’ve been looking into post-bac programs, unfortunately, they are very expensive. Once I graduate (this semester), I will be completely on my own financially. I’ve considered the option of moving back with my family to save on living expenses and going to a university back at home. Unfortunately, they do not have a post-bac program. The pre-health advisor at this university suggested I apply for a second bachelors degree in Bio (b/c it includes all the pre-med classes and I would have the benefits of advising and a reasonable regisistration date; as opposed to a non-degree seeking student).
They then suggested to take the classes I need and not finish the degree. The pre-health advisor at the university I’m currently at completely opposed the idea of not finishing the second degree. He said that med schools would not like that I committed to a second degree and did not complete it. He said this would only add to the lack of direction in my transcript (like changing my major a lot).
With all these big decisions to make and conflicting information, I’m stuck. I don’t know what to do next. I keep getting told to look into PA programs. Not to discount PAs or their important roles in health care; but I can’t help but feeling that I keep getting told this because I am not going to make it to med school.
I don’t want to spend potentially two years finishing a second degree to just not make it into med school. But I know I’ll never know that answer until I try…
- sunshine301 Said:
The answers are: yes, yes and yes.
Unfortunately, I know what the problems are, it's just really hard to fix them because the only solution seems to take a risk; exactly what I feel so scared to do.
I've been looking into post-bac programs, unfortunately, they are very expensive. Once I graduate (this semester), I will be completely on my own financially. I've considered the option of moving back with my family to save on living expenses and going to a university back at home. Unfortunately, they do not have a post-bac program. The pre-health advisor at this university suggested I apply for a second bachelors degree in Bio (b/c it includes all the pre-med classes and I would have the benefits of advising and a reasonable regisistration date; as opposed to a non-degree seeking student).
They then suggested to take the classes I need and not finish the degree. The pre-health advisor at the university I'm currently at completely opposed the idea of not finishing the second degree. He said that med schools would not like that I committed to a second degree and did not complete it. He said this would only add to the lack of direction in my transcript (like changing my major a lot).
With all these big decisions to make and conflicting information, I'm stuck. I don't know what to do next. I keep getting told to look into PA programs. Not to discount PAs or their important roles in health care; but I can't help but feeling that I keep getting told this because I am not going to make it to med school.
I don't want to spend potentially two years finishing a second degree to just not make it into med school. But I know I'll never know that answer until I try...
My advice you may or may not like but if you are against the Post Bac and DO school then really its PA ( which is not a good substitute for Physician, many who's goal is to be a DOC wish they had done that instead of PA, I know 4 personally that feel this way) or Caribbean schools The BIG 4 (SGU ROSS AUC and SABA) will give you just about any practice area, competitive residencies will be harder to get but not impossible, Practicing as a PA with have more limits than any Caribbean school. Plus if you go to PA school no such thing as an "Upgrade" You have to apply for medschool like everyone else and start from scratch. ( Nothing wrong with PA just it's not a substitute for Medschool and if you like to be in charge then you still have to be under a Doc)
This is just my opinion
Good Luck
- sunshine301 Said:
The answers are: yes, yes and yes.
Unfortunately, I know what the problems are, it's just really hard to fix them because the only solution seems to take a risk; exactly what I feel so scared to do.
That's correct. It's also something in the nature of challenges... if you weren't afraid of it, you'd probably have changed it by now. In general, re: med school, part of my perspective is "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it!" Perhaps some challenges, like memorizing 6,000 different aspects of anatomy, will be easier for you. Other challenges - like not living up to your own extremely high standards - will be different. Of course, there are a lot of perfectionists here. Actually, if I were going under the knife, I'd hate to think that my surgeon were anything but...
- Quote:
Definitely do a few searches around OPM to find some anecdotes about this. Mine is that I screwed up very badly in my undergrad days; suffice to say, whlie I got my Bachelor's roughly on time, my GPA looked kind of like the square root symbol. I'm currently taking an unofficial post-bacc at UCF; I've declared a major and am taking the pre-req coursework. Neither the M&M (molec and microbio, my declared department) advisors nor the pre-med advisor were unhappy when I told them I didn't intend to complete the degree. YMMV - check it out personally, I'd say.
- Quote:
I don't want to spend potentially two years finishing a second degree to just not make it into med school. But I know I'll never know that answer until I try...
Making it into med school is not easy; I've not done it yet, but I'm told that's true ;). If you want to do it (as you state), and you have the capacity for it (as it seems), only you can stop you.
If med school is what you truly desire... why shoot for anything but? Because you're afraid?
I don't say this to belittle you, but because I understand. We all have our challenges to overcome, our fears to confront. That's life; that's how we grow as individuals.
So I say this, because it seems similar to the challenges I've faced. I'm not one to dole out advice, but rather share my thoughts on a personal level. With that in mind, reading the similarities between our struggles popped a few things into my brain. If I share them here, will you tell me what you think?
- Live independently; it won't be as easy, but you'll learn a lot more
- Ease your way back to school. Spend some time learning life; maybe take one course a semester for the next year, but take some time gaining another perspective.
- After a year - or two years, or however much seems right for you - get back to school full-time, concentrating primarily on your studies and working as you want/need. Challenge yourself smartly; don't overwhelm yourself, but don't sell yourself short.
- Yes, that last part of that last one may well be the hardest. For me, I think, I got there not by explicitly concentrating on overcoming my fears, but rather, living life being aware of my fears as artificial limitations. With that mindset, addressing them over time just came as a natural accoutrement to life.
I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but I like to think I have some of the questions. What do you think? How can you best get at the heart of your fears?
-pi1304 "bravery isn't lack of fear; it's overcoming fear" Adam
Well said, Adam!
Sunshine -
I really don’t think med schools care whether or not you enroll seeking a second degree (and don’t finish it) or as a non-degree student. I took classes as a non-degree, my friend took them as a second degree seeking student without finishing the degree. We ended up that way because when we were looking into how to do this, we talked to different people in different departments who gave us different advice on how to go about the post-bac route. (And we went to the same school).
My advice is to enroll however works best for you. As a non-degree student, you are eligible for 12 consecutive months of financial aid to take classes required for admission into a professional program. If you enroll as a second-degree seeking undergrad, your FA eligibility is going to depend on how many total undergrad hours and loans you already have, but there will not be any time limit on financial aid. At some schools, non-degree students get absolute last preference in scheduling, and when trying to schedule pre-reqs, this can make things very difficult if you get closed out of a lot of classes because of your scheduling preference. So - if you will get more assistance and better scheduling preference to enroll as a second degree seeking undergrad, do it that way. Seriously, the medical schools will never question it. What the schools tend to have issues with is when people are enrolled in masters, PhD or other professional programs and don’t finish those before starting med school.
- Emergency! Said:
I really don't think med schools care whether or not you enroll seeking a second degree (and don't finish it) or as a non-degree student. I took classes as a non-degree, my friend took them as a second degree seeking student without finishing the degree. We ended up that way because when we were looking into how to do this, we talked to different people in different departments who gave us different advice on how to go about the post-bac route. (And we went to the same school).
My advice is to enroll however works best for you. As a non-degree student, you are eligible for 12 consecutive months of financial aid to take classes required for admission into a professional program. If you enroll as a second-degree seeking undergrad, your FA eligibility is going to depend on how many total undergrad hours and loans you already have, but there will not be any time limit on financial aid. At some schools, non-degree students get absolute last preference in scheduling, and when trying to schedule pre-reqs, this can make things very difficult if you get closed out of a lot of classes because of your scheduling preference. So - if you will get more assistance and better scheduling preference to enroll as a second degree seeking undergrad, do it that way. Seriously, the medical schools will never question it. What the schools tend to have issues with is when people are enrolled in masters, PhD or other professional programs and don't finish those before starting med school.
To be honest I thought this too. Just wanted to throw in other options as well. I like to look at problems at all angles and have choices then you do not feel so "Boxed in" to one way.
I just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my posts. I’m not sure what I’m going to do next but at least I feel like I have more information now to make a better decision. I just might go ahead and apply for the second bachelors degree in Bio. Thank you again everyone!
I’m coming into this discussion rather on the late side, and am only addressing one issue…
There is no way that you need a 2nd bachelor’s degree in order to fulfill the pre-med course requirements. As has been mentioned, you can take the courses as a non-degree (or “open university”) student. I recommend that if you chose the “informal” post-bacc route that you go to the most rigorous four-year institution that time and finances will allow.
Cheers,
Judy