Hi, I’m 24 and recently returned to school with the goal of being a MD. This is my first post and first outreach for guidance/advice. To understand my confusion and where I am, I suppose I have to explain my journey thus far.
I graduated high school a year early and was accepted into a 4-year university. Sadly, at the time, neither I nor my family had the funds for me to attend school, so I started working. I went from top of my class, without really trying too hard, to “that guy pumping your gas†and later “the mortgage adviser guy on the phone.†I have climbed up from gas station attendant to mortgage servicer/loan-work-out, but I have reached the limit I can go at this stage in my life. I have battled with severe-depression and health issues and all-around unhappy with my life and where I was going. Basically I am rebooting my life all at once, fixing credit, paying everything up to $0.00, working on my depression, getting into shape and other health issues, etc. I have quit my soul-crushing job and have been allowed to move back in with my parents for a few years to allow me to focus my attention on my education. The issue is I can’t find anyone to help me with a plan (or idea of what lays ahead of me). My current plan is: 1) I am going to a local community college and get an Associates in Biology (2-3 years) to 2) transfer to the near-by 4-year university (with has a “dual-enrollment†program with the CC for exactly this kind of thing) to get a Bach in Biology (2 more years) and then 3) (hopefully) to the Medical School in my state. My CC councilors say I need to complete all “the pre-med requirements by the time I’m done with my Bach†but won’t comment on anything but the Assoc Degree, the 4-year says to talk to the CC to make sure I get my “pre-med foundation solid by the time I start the 4-yearâ€, etc… I am left guessing what I need and what I should do; I don’t know what these magic “the pre-med requirements†are, I don’t know if Bio or Chem is the best major, etc. So I am starting my journey and I have walked through the doorway to the long hallway of becoming a Dr… and it’s all black…
I have a million questions and concerns but I won’t unload all of them here and now. I am sure many of my questions will be silly and sometimes stupid but I would appreciate the input.
I would love to hear other’s stories on how they did or are doing it. Advice? Comments? Suggestions?
I recently heard that if you have a CC as a major part of your under-grad education than Med Schools don’t find you very competitive; a CC will be half on my Bach’s education in the form of an Associates Degree. ?!?! Have I chosen the wrong directions? I know that that it’s not a “rule†but if it’s a “foolish†route than I want to know NOW so I can do something about it (I only have a few years until I will have to move out and somehow get a fulltime job and fulltime school so I need to make the most of my time).
Sorry for the length and rambling nature of my first post >.<
First, welcome to OPM! Second, take a breath and start to organize yourself.
Let me see if I can answer some of your initial questions:
What are the “pre-med” requirements?
1 yr. of General Biology (plus lab)
1 yr. of General (Inorganic) Chemistry (plus lab)
1 yr. of Physics (Algebra or Calculus based) plus lab
1 yr. of Organic Chemistry (plus lab)
What major should I select, Chemistry or Biology?
This is really up to you. When you apply to medical school, there is no set major that you are required to have? As long as you obtain a bachelor’s degree, have a competitive GPA, and fulfill the pre-med requirements, that is the first half of the battle. If you are interested in Chemistry or Biology as a major, then I suggest you go for one of those majors. If not, select a major that appeals to you.
Am I on the right path? Should I try to become a doctor?
Well, there are many applicants to medical school who are twice your age (and many of them are OPM members). As one of the OPM members always states, “the journey to medical is a marathon, not a sprint.” Keep yourself organized and take this process one semester at a time. Keeping in mind of course that the big picture is that you want to obtain your M.D.
Finally, no question is a stupid question. You don’t know the answer to something unless you ask.
Welcome to the group! If you do a search within the forums, I imagine you will find much discussion regarding the questions you have, and perhaps will bring forth things that you hadn’t even thought of.
With respect to classes, at a minimum you will need one year of biology with lab, one year of general chemistry with lab, one year of organic chemistry with lab, one year of physics (generally, I believe, with lab but am not certain). In addition, different medical schools may have additional requirements with respect to humanities, calculus, biochemistry, etc. General chemistry and physics require a solid foundation in algebra and trigonometry at a minimum to do well, so you may need to supplement with these courses depending on your background. My recommendation is to not even begin to think about taking gen chem or physics until you feel confident in the math. There is great information on the AAMC website for people considering pursuing medicine which takes you through the entirety of the process-- AAMC site.
With respect to which classes you should take at CC vs. 4 year university, you will find lots of different thoughts. The general consensus on this forum, I believe, is that you should attempt to do as much of your prereq coursework as you can at a 4 year university. Generally med schools perceive 4 year coursework to be more rigorous than CC work (and, regardless of whether or not it’s true, perception is what matters and you have to play by their rules). This does need to be balanced against your own situation, however. An argument can certainly be made for starting at a CC as a transition point in your case–getting a solid start and developing confidence in your ability to be successful in the classroom would certainly go far as you then transition to the four year. Regardless of where you take your prereqs, be sure to take advanced level courses at the 4 year institution. This will take some honest assessment on your part as to how much your CC will set you up for success in upper division courses at the 4 year–some CC’s have rigorous courses, others do not. If a particular CC has a reputation for generally being easy or courses are considerably easier than at a 4 year university, I would consider taking at a minimum the bio and chem courses at a 4 year (and possibly the physics). Regardless of which path you take, provided you do well in your prereqs and that you take multiple advanced courses at a 4 year and do well, and of course, do well on the MCAT, you should be fine as you move forward in the application process (at least from an academic side of things.)
As far as the degree goes, the great thing about applying to med school now is that schools are looking for a diversity of students. While a good portion of students continue to be science majors (most often bio or chem), students with a wide range of degrees are part of most schools’ classes. This includes engineering majors, art majors, theater majors, business majors, and the list goes on…
Also, I want to encourage you to continue to take strides in combating your depression. The added stress of the process can play with the mind, so be sure you’ve got good support, both on a personal and medical side of things, in place.
Again, much congrats! Best wishes as you continue to move forward!!
Rule 10: Beware of FUD – Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt
You have gotten some great, well written, advice from TJJ MD and MS2B2010. I will add a few miscellaneous tidbits.
The CC vs 4 year controversy does it exist with CC generally thought less competitive than a 4 year. However, you sound like you have an excellent path from the CC to the 4 year school and it seems to work for you lifestyle back at home. I would not sweat it at all.
As was pointed out, you do not need to major in a biology or chemistry as long as you take the required pre-reqs. You sound like an extremely intelligent individual and you should follow your passion that you can excel at in school. The only caveat I would add is that the pre-reqs should be considered the minimum and that some advance biology courses should be taken at the 4 year school. This will supplement you application.
I would not be surprised at all if a major impact on your depression is the mind-numbing jobs that you have held and that being in a stimulating, intellectual pursuit will improve you well-being and, dare I say, soul in all this.
keep your focus on your goal and your spirit in this journey. Perhaps, as the parchment in a mezuzah says, you should keep as a sign on your door posts and on your gates.
One of the things I should mention is for the Associsates from the CC almost all the “pre-med reqs” that were mentioned above. As in the Associates degree requires all of the following: College Chem (2-3 terms = 1 year) + Gen Chem (3 terms = 1 year) + O-Chem (3 terms = 1yr) + Gen Physics/General Physics wCalculus (3 terms = 1 yr) + Bio 200-series (3 terms = 1 year). It seems that means almost all the pre-med reqs will be at a CC level and there will be almost nothing for the 4-year.
Because of this would it be a better idea to do all the random other classes that will transfer to a 4-year (writing, lit, lower maths, Cultural Diversity, and general electives) and than enroll at the 4-year for a full Bach? I understand there is no “right” or “wrong” but basically I have “one swing” at this and want to do what is “best” rather than what is “easiest.”
The information I heard also tends to agree with classes at a 4-year are looked on more favorably than at a CC. That in mind I believe your idea of getting other classes/requirements at a CC done is a great one. It would probably save you some money as well. Do, of course, make sure through the CC or admissions at possible med schools that the classes you choose will in fact transfer and make sure you do as best as you possibly can on these courses (not that you wouldn’t of course) while med schools may tolerate CC work especially for CC they will not look so highly on a low grade in something like English, Speech, history, etc.
Hope this helps you decide and good luck to you. Keep us posted!
One of the things I should mention is for the Associsates from the CC almost all the "pre-med reqs" that were mentioned above. As in the Associates degree requires all of the following: College Chem (2-3 terms = 1 year) + Gen Chem (3 terms = 1 year) + O-Chem (3 terms = 1yr) + Gen Physics/General Physics wCalculus (3 terms = 1 yr) + Bio 200-series (3 terms = 1 year). It seems that means almost all the pre-med reqs will be at a CC level and there will be almost nothing for the 4-year.
Because of this would it be a better idea to do all the random other classes that will transfer to a 4-year (writing, lit, lower maths, Cultural Diversity, and general electives) and than enroll at the 4-year for a full Bach? I understand there is no "right" or "wrong" but basically I have "one swing" at this and want to do what is "best" rather than what is "easiest."
From an Adcom "perception" point of view getting a four year degree all from a single 4 year institution is likely best. However, doing most of your hard science at a 4 year school is likely not that far behind. Doing your basic preqs at a CC then not doing much science at a 4 year is the least desirable.
A few additional points.
1) in addition to the required prereqs, it is highly desirable and recommended to have additional upper level biology, chemistry or other classes. These would include such things as Biochemistry, Immunology, Genetics, Molecular Biology but to name a few possibilities. No reason to have them all but certainly a few, especially at a 4 year school is useful.
2) Since you do not have a previous degree (nor the grade baggage that goes with it) your background is clean. So the idea of mostly doing general education and only a few prereqs at the CC followed by a majority of prereqs at the 4 year is a very workable path. I think because you do not have a degree, the CC versus 4 year is much less an issue for you as, no matter what, you will be getting your bachelors at a 4 year. I would think general chem and bio at the CC and then Organic and advanced at the 4 year would be fine
In the end, do what your schedule, budget, and living conditions allow. If you do all the prereqs at a CC, some advanced bio/life science at the 4 year, a good MCAT, I really do not think it will have a major negative impact on your chances. Go the the best place that you can do well. If budget/lifestyle mean a CC, then do it. But do it well
Coming from someone who did roughly the same route, my advice would be to take all of the “other” classes you can, Math, general electives, english, etc…at the CC. One, its usually quite a bit cheaper to do these at a cc and two they will generally transfer over easily. My opinion is to get the chemistries,biologies,phy sics and the associated labs at the 4 year university.The only reason I would not do any of the bio or chems at the CC is that they may differ enough to university adcoms that they require you to repeat them. Additionally, these are the foundation classes for higher level biochems,genetics and others that you will have to take. In the university setting I attended, these are generally tailored to dovetail to each other in sequence with each building off the last. Some (not all) lower level bio at the CC just don’t teach a strong enough base for you to jump into the next level.
I personally would not worry about getting an associates, but work towards the bachelors degree. nobody really cares what type of english classes you take but they will take a hard look at the hard sciences and the grades you get in them. I took alot of my elective classes at the cc, which allowed me to concentrate on only having to take the hard sciences at the university level. It really helped in being able to nail a good grade in those key classes. This allows you to ace the classes at the CC and do well on all the hard science pre-reqs at the university level. Then you can finish up with a mix of sciences and other to complete the bachelors.
I think your revised idea of taking the “random” prereqs at the CC and completing the bachelors at the 4 year college is good. I would say just to consider that if you did chemistry, and perhaps physics at the community college level, then biology and ochem at the 4 year college in your third year, you would be able to then take the MCAT test after that year, prior to 4th year. That would allow application to medical school during the summer prior to your senior year and the ability to go from college to medical school without a “glide year”. If you do not complete the basic core requirements by your junior year, you won’t be ready to take the MCAT’s then, and there will be a year lag between school and medical school.
THe plus of having a “glide year” is the ability to work for a year and accumulate some finances, and also to be able to concentrate on the application process. Just some things to think about.
So how does the MCAT work? I assumed I would have to take it AFTER my Bach. From the time that you take it how long does it take to get the results? Is the MCAT only administered once annually? quarterly? And what do I to be able to take it?
And by the way, thanks for everyones’ support and suggestions
So how does the MCAT work? I assumed I would have to take it AFTER my Bach. From the time that you take it how long does it take to get the results? Is the MCAT only administered once annually? quarterly? And what do I to be able to take it?
And by the way, thanks for everyones' support and suggestions
The MCAT is likely as important as GPA for acceptance to medical school. It is give now 22 times a year online at testing centers across the USA. This is the exam that the large test prep companies, such as kaplan, princeton review, and many others make a fortune on
OPM does have an entire forum but you may find the basic outline of info at the office MCAT site
The MCAT exam can be taken at any time prior to medical school application. Generally people will take it after having taken their pre-req courses as these are the topics generally tested on the exam (there are also some general biochem, genetics, etc questions but nothing which truly requires taking these courses in advance of the test.)
The exam is given multiple times in a year. Your MCAT will be a part of your application to the medical schools, so needs to be completed prior to interviewing. The application process, including MCAT, generally takes around one year.
If you go to the link I have above, you will see information about the MCAT exam as well as most of the information you’ll need to understand prior to applying to medical school.
Generally “traditional” students (those who go straight from college to medical school) take the MCAT in spring of their junior year, after they have completed the science core prerequisites, and apply to med school early in the cycle (say in June) between junior and senior year.
It’s not getting the score back that is the big wait. (I think it’s about 4 or 5 weeks). IT’s that the application process for med school takes a year. I applied in June of 2009 when I finished my postbacc and had interviews scheduled thru February (but I accepted an offer of enrollment in December) for fall of 2010.
Most non-trads end up with a “glide year” as I did, since we can’t apply till we get the prereqs done, and most of us are not still completing a degree. Lots of people use the time to take additional courses (biochem, genetics, etc).
