I was wondering what the experience of people already in medical school is regarding how the basic sciences are taught. I have noticed that in some of my pre-med classes some of my younger fellow students were less inclined to work collaboratively with the non-trad students than with the usual undergrads. I wondered if this, or any other factors related to being older, made med students feel that traditional curricula (perhaps providing the structure to guide you through the learning process) or independent (allowing you to learn in the ways you have found work best for you over the years) was better?
Thanks for any input. I am trying to weigh curriculum differences in terms of schools to apply to and I am curious that there may be issues that affect older med students that I have not thought of.
Quote: from oldernotwiser on 9:12 pm on Mar. 11, 2002 Hi Everyone,
I was wondering what the experience of people already in medical school is regarding how the basic sciences are taught. I have noticed that in some of my pre-med classes some of my younger fellow students were less inclined to work collaboratively with the non-trad students than with the usual undergrads. I wondered if this, or any other factors related to being older, made med students feel that traditional curricula (perhaps providing the structure to guide you through the learning process) or independent (allowing you to learn in the ways you have found work best for you over the years) was better?
Thanks for any input. I am trying to weigh curriculum differences in terms of schools to apply to and I am curious that there may be issues that affect older med students that I have not thought of.
thanks!
Alex
Hello there,
My medical school has an integrated mix of traditional classes (systems based) plus some PBL (problem-based learning) group sessions. Your success in medical school whether PBL or traditional class attendance is largely based on your personal study habits. Your learning is your responsibility and most of it is done outside of class, at home or library when you attempt to digest the material. Age is not a factor in learning and mastering the vast amount of information that one must acquire rapidly for competent medical practice.
Medical school is a graduate-level professional school. Much of the immaturity, while present at times, generally fades when students are all faced with the same learning challenges. That challenge is that every medical student has to meet their respective curricula and master it in order to advance to medical practice. There are as many ways of doing mastering this material as there are medical students. Students who have difficulty working collaboratively in the pre-clinical years, are going to face an uphill battle during the clinical years. These students often realize early in the game, that medicine is not for them and leave the profession entirely.
The greatest challenges to non-traditional students tend to deal with family and financial issues. There is a world of difference when you are single, fresh from college and the world of having Mom and Dad as your safety net versus having a spouse, children and a mortgage that must be paid. These obligations can add another layer of stress to an already inherently stressful environment. Other than family and financial issues, non-traditional students are like any other medical students. No curriculum will force an immature student into maturity. Fortunately your grades only depend on your performance.
Thanks for the response Natalie. I must say you seem to give very thorough/well thought out responses!
I am glad to hear that your experience is that the medical curricula, regardles of how it is taught, irons out the wrinkles in maturity/collaboration between students. I don’t think anyone can ask much more than for their grades/sucess to rely on their own efforts as you intimate. I’de be happy to hear anyone elses input too.
Here at UNECOM, the five year option seems to be particularly popular among the older student set. Under this plan, you do your classroom work spread over three years instead of two, and then clinical rotations the same as everyone else. I think a lot of older students choose this because outside commitments (family etc) limit study time. In my own case, I feel such a rush to get on with it that I am saving that a s a last resort, and so far things have mostly gone ok. I feel like because of age, my career will already be shorter than my younger clasmates. the last thing I want to do is take a year longer to finish. as to study skills – I do have more trouble memorizing long list of things than I used to I think. I use lots of repetition – I make flash cards for lots of things. I carry them in my pocket to do 5 minute drills during lulles in competion at the kids track meets and similar times. Its a good way to make use of short gaps in the schedule Steve
At CCOM, my experience is that everyone has their own way of studying, no matter if you are young or old. There are some students that studied completely on there own. Other students when you see them at exams, you wonder who they are because they are only on campus for exams. Others formed study groups right away. The groups are mixed with older and younger students. Rachel CCOM MS-II
Hi, I've been doing a lot of research about this as I choose between a school with a mostly lecture-based curriculum and one with a PBL curriculum. I'm leaning towards the PBL school, though the curriculum is only one reason. Anyway, I've been talking to a lot of older students on the phone–I've been tracking them down at both schools–and what they all say is that in academics, age isn't an issue. At some schools, age is the major determining factor in social groups; in others, not even that is determined by age. This seems to vary even class by class within schools. Whether outside study groups are harder to form as an OPM is probably similar in either kind of curriculum, depending more on the cliquishness of the school than the curriculum itself. In several schools, I've actually found that the students in their late twenties and early thirties do cluster as a group, but that the older students (late thirties and up) sometimes are just as happy to hang with the twenty-two year olds, and end up in study groups/social groups with them instead of with the slightly less young students. I don't know why this is exactly, but I've heard this about the oldest students at several different schools. Is this because the much older students don't have any investment in their own ideas of their own maturity, and so can just enjoy the company of people very much different from them; whereas the somewhat older students are more interested in proving to themselves that they are quite different than the younger ones? Just a theory–we'll see how it plays out. (I'm 32.) It also seems to me that small degrees of variation in performance in a given class are not going to be as big a deal in many schools' preclinical years, esp. most of the PBL schools as far as I know–b/c they're pass/fail. So, assuming that I go to a school with pass/fail preclinicals, I expect to be competing less against others and more against myself and my own expectations. It's not like pre-med where the difference between an 88 and a 93 on a project seems like a huge deal, and can be influenced by whether your lab partner is a problem or a help. cheers SF/DC Joe
I think I definitely benefited from the more innovative curriculum at Pitt. During the first two years we only had to worry about one hard-core science class at a time. Lectures were optional (all the notes for each lecture were distributed in a syllabus at the beginning of each block) and PBLs were frequent and well integrated. The curriculum is constantly being analyzed and revised. They are talking about removing most of anatomy and biochem from the first year (except for what would be necessary for step 1 of the boards) and beginning clinical rotations in the second half of the second year then taking part of the 4th year for didactics (anatomy/biochem etc…) after you’ve been exposed to clinical medicine and have a better appreciation for how important those subjects are. On a side note: Hey Joe, I had to laugh when I read your observations about us late 30’s types…as I look back at the friends I’ve made and my “study buddies” I realized that they span the gamut from 24-40.
Jeff–I'm now probably leaning towards another school. I can't find your email now; if you send it to me, I'll email you off list if you want to know more, or otherwise, I'll post to the forum about my kind of nutsy admissions season saga and eventual results, but probably not until May 15, which is the drop-dead decision date. Tonem–so, does the rest of the observation hold? (i.e., are the late-twenties/mid-thirties students clustering, or are they just as democratic as you are?) SF/DC Joe
