Hi, I’m a 34 year old married mom of 2 who has worked in laboratories for the past 10 years or so. I wanted to be a doctor from age 2-17, when I found out my parents had taken out a second mortgage to help pay for my college. I felt so guilty I rushed through a great school to get my BS in 3 years, often skipping class and study time to work (or date) and my GPA suffered for it. I spent a year in grad school but came home due to family issues and the realization it wasn’t the program for me. I’ve had some success in my careers but am very much underachieving and have found this largely unfulfilling, so I don’t last more than a few years in any one field. I began thinking about medicine again after dealing with my kids’ health issues - doctors suddenly seemed ‘human’ again. I also read Med School Confidential and the Atul Gawande books and it felt as if I was going back to what I should have done from the beginning. With my husband’s full support, I plan to apply to the local university’s medical school (allopathic) when it’s financially feasible for us (8-15 years), I’m finished having children, and they are in school. I am determined to get through med school debt free and will postpone it until I can. Although I don’t plan to attend medical school in the near future, I realize I will eventually need to re-take my prerequisites as I last took the classes in the 1990’s. Information has advanced, my credits have expired, my GPA needs a boost, I need to review the material before taking the MCAT, and frankly, I really am more interested and I hope more mature this time around.
So, my first question is, what premedical textbooks (I’m old school - no iPad or Kindle yet) did people find most useful in their premed, postbac, or DIY programs? I have Campbell Biology, which seems much better written than my old book, but I got a cheap version that’s missing chapters. Any other suggestions for chemistry, physics, calculus, psychology, etc? I wanted to prepare by reading up while I save up enough to take classes at the local CC.
Thanks,
Mama P
Howdy Mrs. Mama P:
Im pretty partial to the Bio Campbell text it’s an oldie but a good; very detailed with lots of illustrations. For A&P, I would recommend you take a look at some texts by Elaine Marieb. I remember using some of her stuff for not only my EMT cert but also my RN. I still have her text and believe it or not I actually reference it from time to time.
On a general note, if you’re like me (one who like s to build there knowledge from macro to micro) then start with children’s sciences books as well as the “Dummies” or Idiots guides. Honestly, these helped tremendously when it came to that “uh oh” factor one gets from time to time in their science courses.
However, I suspect that with your background this may be more of a refresher for you. Note that research has advanced the sciences year by year but as far as the basics well…you still have two arms, two legs, and a beating heart. That will never change.
Finally, I know you mentioned to keep the techie stuff at a minimum but the internet is an invaluable resource; a definite must! You have access to FREE tutor and lecture sites such as: Brightstorm, Khan Academy, as well as a plethora of DIY home videos for the struggling student; myself included! I honestly do not know how I would have been able to pass the majority of my science classes without them. Bottom line: you need the internet and techie stuff to make your study time more efficient.
As I think of anything else I’ll be sure to chime in. Good luck and God speed! 
Wow, thanks Julio Cesar! I had not been to the Brightstorm or Khan Academy sites and these will be tremendously helpful. To clarify, I do have internet and an old iPod touch but I lack a smartphone or a tablet for some of the newer apps that would be helpful such as the iTunes university stuff. I do look at MIT’s open courseware and I have the anatomy & physiology DVDs from The Great Courses (the professor’s voice is unfortunately quite soporific), but I think Khan Academy and Brightstorm will really be great to explore - thanks so much for the suggestion!
I have purchased and used or attempted to use many books etc to help me with everything from gen chem to organic chem. Only the following helped me: the gen chem I and II dvd videos from chemistryprofessor dot com (I had also purchased the organic chem dvd but strangely did not find it helpful at all… but the gen chem I and II dvds were invaluable to me). For organic chem I bought about 3 help books but the only one that I really found very helpful was “the nuts and bolts of organic chemistry” written by Katz (I think) you might just google the title. Bio and Physics I didnt really need any extra study books. You may want to check out the free video lectures on learnerstv dot com. Tons of lectures on about every topic you can imagine and as I stated they are free. I started watching these a few weeks ago to get a head start in biochem.
While a bit off theme, I recommend Getting What You Came For. It’s primarily written for people going into graduate school, but it has information for just about every question you’ll have regarding the practical matters of being a student- how loans work, how to cold call profs who run a lab you’d like to work in, how to interview, how to network, etc. Fantastic resource. And it’s especially relevant considering how the student loan landscape has changed in the last few years- particularly for students in medically-oriented career training.
Thank you so much for these resources. I suspect I will be spending quite some time on learnerstv. I appreciate your help.
And I’m back.
I’m now 37 with three kids, have been promoted to the highest bachelor’s-level lab support position my company has, and have absolutely crushed the medical terminology, general psychology, lifespan/developmental psychology, and statistics classes offered at my local community college. Thanks to those who offered resources - Khan Academy was especially helpful for statistics. I’m currently acing biomedical ethics and anatomy. If anything, the pace is rather slow for me. My undergrad school was on quarters and semesters feel very drawn out.
For a while I thought I might apply to a nursing program, but I shelved that idea after shadowing a nurse. I also shadowed a PA and am not convinced I wouldn’t regret not trying MD first.
I had thought I’d put off medical school until my kids were older but after some soul-searching, I think it’s important to show as well as tell my three little girls that one should follow their dreams even if it is hard. Some policy changes at work are also prompting me to investigate other options. I’ve discovered I’m a much better student 20 years later, and I’d kind of like to do it full time - but without added debt.
That leaves me looking at graduate programs with a stipend. The local medical school has a graduate program that interests me, and also has a medical scientist training program that takes eight years for PhD plus MD. I’ve enjoyed industrial research for 8+ years, so perhaps this is an option.
Questions:
- I have the wikipremed bundle. Has this been sufficient for any members to get great MCAT scores? I have bumped my 2.96 to a 3.1 cGPA with the CC courses, but I know I will need exceptional MCAT scores just to get the door open.
- I noticed that the Northwestern Health Sciences University has accelerated individual classes and this might be useful for an o-chem retake. They seemed cheaper and more convenient than the U of Minnesota in this respect. Any comments?
- Would it make more sense to finish out my AS at the CC, take only courses relevant to the MCAT at the CC, or transfer immediately to the university with the PhD/MD program and use their classes (more expensive, bad timing given my work schedule)?
- Does anyone local have experience with either Judy Colwell or Jeannie Burlowski for consulting regarding med school applications? I think I’m going beyond the expertise of my CC advisor.
- Mama P Said:
1) I have the wikipremed bundle. Has this been sufficient for any members to get great MCAT scores? I have bumped my 2.96 to a 3.1 cGPA with the CC courses, but I know I will need exceptional MCAT scores just to get the door open.
I am not familiar with that bundle but would probably say, no. Given that U of MN courses were not sufficient prep for the MCAT, I'm doubtful that those would be either.
The MCAT is unlike any other exam I have ever taken (those include: ACT, GRE, GMAT, LSAT).
It's a beast. Not an unconquerable beast but it is nasty.
I took one of the diagnostic exams, which is supposedly similar in nature to the real MCAT, and my face hit the floor.
Rote memorization is not enough. Solid understanding of the basic sciences is not enough. Rote formula spewing and use is not enough.
Being able to read dense paragraphs of cr@p embedded with details, numbers, formulas, graphs, and then answer the not-so-benign question at the end is what the MCAT tests.
- Mama P Said:
With a 3.1, you are not going to be competitive at the U of MN, or many other MD schools especially when the grade improvement through CC is the reason why.
Some states have better community colleges and rely on those to get people into the universities and 4-year colleges. MN is not one of them.
I would strongly encourage you to take gen chem, organic chem, physics, biology, biochem, psych and soc at the U of MN and then debate whether med school is what you want.
Or if the U of MN seems too intimidating, go to Hamline, Augsburg, St Kates, Bethel, or Mac. Any one of those private colleges > community colleges (Inver Grove, Century, Northwestern, et al).
Your grades will go up with CC but the adcoms, especially those at the U, see through all of that... and when you're competing against students who have gone to the U and have gotten 3.7+, it degrades your own credentials.
Don't do that to yourself! Start with best foot forward ...
- Mama P Said:
Would not go there - take ochem from the U, use ratemyprof . com to get the names of the best profs available (could name them but won't).
- Mama P Said:
1st, the U will not take you into the MD/PhD program from an Assoc's degree. That is - across the country - one of the hardest programs to get into. Not only do you have to have a Bachelor's degree but you MUST have bench research.
2nd, to my knowledge there is NO medical school in the country that will accept you without a Bachelor's degree.
3rd, the courses you take are not in prep for the MCAT, they are pre-requisites for potential admission to medical school. If you want to prep for the MCAT, take Kaplan or Princeton AFTER you've taken the pre-reqs first.
Last, bite the bullet and take your pre-reqs at the best university you can afford. That would be the U. Adcoms are not looking for a reason to admit you, they are looking for a reason to exclude you.
Don't give them CC credits when you could have done something stronger.
- Mama P Said:
Judy Colwell is excellent.
Good luck and remember: this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Thanks for your input, but I think some things might not have come across clearly.
- I do have a Bachelor of Science degree from a top ten university. I graduated in three years, actually and I took pre-med biology, chemistry, honors calculus, and calc-based physics there. I was immature (under 18 when I started) and rushed, hence the 2.96 GPA at that school.
- I have >10 years research, publications, etc. The CC was initially for fun, but since I’m acing everything and the GPA is increasing, I thought I’d see come back and see could be a viable option. I had bookmarked http://www.oldpremeds.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?t… and it seemed that a low GPA did not necessarily limit certain possibilities.
- I don’t understand re-taking classes at the U that I’ve already got A’s in elsewhere. Can you explain the rationale?
Thanks for the note.
Your post made it appear your grades were bad including pre-reqs.
Retaking pre-reqs at a CC is not advisable especially when the U is right there.
If your pre-reqs are solid A’s and are within the past 5 years, no, you do not need to retake them.
So, then, the question is:
What are you taking at the CC?
If you have taken all the pre-reqs for applications, then my next suggestion would be take Kaplan or Princeton and the 2015 MCAT (which includes psych, soc, and more biochem + other)…
One other thought, that maybe you are not aware of:
The GPA is broken down into various components:
cGPA - overall including chem, bio, physics
BCPM - bio, chem, math, physics
Post Grad GPA
etc
If your cGPA is abysmal (it is) but that is due to grades from 15 years ago, AND your BCPM i s the 4.0 due to your recent grades:
skip trying to raise that sucker … and take the MCAT.
Some schools will ignore you based upon the 2.96 and never dig into when, why and what you’ve done in the 15 years since.
Many schools WILL ignore the cGPA and just see the 4.0 from now.
THOSE are the schools you want to find. Lucky for you, the U is one of them
Adoc2be- Why do you say you wouldn’t go to Northwestern Health Science University? It is a private, undergrad accredited university…seems like it would hold more weight that a community college to me… just interested in your thoughts.
Also- MamaP- I am also a new non-trad pre-med in MN. (Start classes in January). Would love to find a local MCAT study partner…I’m planning on taking the new test in the spring/early summer. When are you planning on MCATing?
- Nirmal Said:
Adcoms are not looking for the highest grades from the lowest tier schools. An "A" at Northwestern Health Sciences (not to be confused with Northwestern in Chicago) does NOT equal an "A" at the U. IF you live in the Minneapolis/St Paul area, there would be immediate questions as to why you did not take your classes at the U.
The general consensus is: take your pre-reqs at the BEST and most demanding university you can.
I am a native Minnesotan. I grew up there, my alma mater is the U (and UMD).
Until last summer when my friend's mother started taking classes there, I had never heard of it.
THAT SAID: try using a transfer program to see what courses would transfer to the U. That will give you some indication of the rigor of the NW HS program.
Rigorous program is what appeals to adcoms... it indicates along with solid grades that the individual is capable of taking a firehose, drinking from it, not imploding, and thriving.
Also, the requirements for admission to the school are a GPA of 2.0... I believe the U is much higher than along with a standard high ACT/SAT score.
Again entrance requirements speak volumes about rigor.
Those differences are not lost on adcoms.
- Nirmal Said:
I looked up your three posts and scanned the first one so I might have missed this:
Have you taken your pre-reqs for medical school?
If not, you should take them before the MCAT.
If you attended high school in des at an insti such as a well-known KV or better, you’ll be fine with self-study for the MCAT, pre-reqs or not. That’s JMO. Pre-reqs at NUHS I don’t know. Could be OK. I plan on applying with 90% pre-reqs from community college. Not ideal, but you do what’s practical and possible for your situation and deal. Know the limitations, though. Check with NUHS about how many of their grads have been successful getting acceptances and decide if it’s right for you.
Dullhead, would it change your opinion if I said the school focuses on massage, Chinese medicine and chiro?
The oriental medicine and chrio would not bother me as long as the institution is accredited AND has a successful track record. We have something similar here in SoCal. It’s the So Cal Univ of Health Sciences (SCUHS), a chiropractic college near Los Angeles. They offer a 1 pre-req per month class format (8 hours each on Sat and Sun for 1 month). Problem is their website does not have a single testimonial from a successful med school applicant, nor on that “other” pre-med forum. That’s why I’m going to CC instead because I at least have read about several people on that other forum getting in with CC credits, and two on this forum as well. Not 90-100% CC credits, but maybe I’ll be the first one to break that barrier.
See, SoCal is the ONE place where CC does not matter… they are so solid.
However, in the case of NWHS, a person has a choice of schools and they are all pretty close to each other. With the University of Minnesota - from the website: “The University of Minnesota-Twin Cities ranked ninth among U.S. public research universities and 26th in the world in Newsweek’s most recent “Top 100 Global Universities” report.”
I’m not saying that anyone in Minneapolis has to go to the U to get into medical school but I AM saying taking courses at a relatively unknown school where 80% of the faculty are chiropractors and NOT PhD’s is not going to be seen as “rigorous”.
Especially when several good private schools are nearby (within 10 miles) AND the U of MN is right there.
I tried to find the backgrounds and credentialing of the faculty who teach gen chem, ochem, physics, biology…
and could not… their credentials are not listed.
To me, that speaks a lot - are the folks going there, hoping to get into medical school being taught by people who HAVE taught pre-med students who HAVE matriculated who DO understand the rigors?
One thing I noticed with my ochem class:
I took it at the U. During a post-mortem on a mid-term I took it to a TA at Hamline to ask her how she would have solved it.
Hamline and the U use the same book. Exactly the same.
The TA at Hamline could not do the ochem test administered at the U. Her comment was “Holy hell you guys have to know a lot.”
Again, it comes down to rigor. And I believe adcoms, especially in the area, would see through a chiro/Chinese medicine/massage school v. U of MN or the private colleges.
I understand your point. I feel slightly differently, in that if the place is accredited, I’m going to be OK with it. You said "…AM saying taking courses at a relatively unknown school where 80% of the faculty are chiropractors and NOT PhD’s is not going to be seen as “rigorous”. This is a very important statement you made. The problem resolves itself, then, because if medschools don’t care for applicants from NWHS, it will continue to lack a track record of successful applicants and anyone choosing to attend will be taking on a big risk.
I guess we both have come to the conclusion that user Nirmal should stay away from this place, but for different reasons. I feel differently compared to most people - the lack of rigor would not bother me. I have to self-study rigorously for the MCAT anyway. The only reason I’m taking the pre-reqs is for a transcript and GPA. If medschools accepted my foreign undergrad coursework, I’d have taken the MCAT and applied 5 years ago. Lack of PhD would also not bother me. Most instructors at my CC do not have a PhD either. Some do, but not all.
Obviously, to each her own. I respectfully disagree with you assessment of NWHSU. Just to put some additional information out there in case other people are reading this thread/considering NWHSU.
Northwestern is an full accredited University. The professors who teach in the School of Undergraduate Study are mostly PhD’s in their respective fields (physics, chemistry etc). Their bios are listed on the website. In my opinion, the other programs in the school being in the complementary healthcare realm in no way indicates a less rigorous coursework. In fact, admissions committees (seem to be) more and more looking for students with a broad and varied experience and perspective.
I have spoken with members of the Admissions department at the UofMN and they accept and view favorably courses from NWHSU. There have also been several students from the NWHSU post-bach program who have been accepted to Medical Schools.
For me, the decision to take classes there came down to convenience, time and a financial decision. As a non-degree seeking post-bach student I only qualify for 1 year of Finical aid. There is no way I could make it through all of the classes I need in 1 year at the UofMN. NWHSU offers courses in an accelerated format which will allow me to get everything in 1 year.
Of course, time will tell…we’ll see what happens next year when I’m actually applying! Best of luck to all!