Irritated by 18-23 demographic...

Nontraditional Premed Discussion
1

As of late I find myself highly irritated (but my resolve has not shaked!) by the people I share the campus with… maybe I’m just getting old and cranky (recently passed the 1/4 century mark myself) but there is something seriously wrong with today’s students. A few observations:

  • Library: For as far back as I could remember, you keep your voice down, concentrate, do research, get your homework done… fast forward to 2008. The library is more like a glorified starbucks now. Everyone pretty much converses away at normal volumes now. I was a pretty bad troublemaker growing up, but even I could understand and respect this concept.

  • Laptops: This critique also applies to grad students as well. Some people like to type their notes up on laptops while the lecture is going on, that is fine. I did a random polling of what was going on in their screens during a lecture. Behold: Myspace, facebook, and at least 3 screens of world of warcraft.

  • The Cell Phone: As a courtesy, I shut down the thing completely. Yes, I reach for the power button and press it, before an exam. I seem to be in the minority here. In every exam I’ve sat in, I’ve heard an average of about 3 phones go off. Perpetrators get only a slight slap on the wrist. Usage of phones is the same problem. I had to take a diagnostic test for an oscilloscope this morning, and the test administrator (who was also a student) was just yapping away at his cell the whole time. Oh, and what’s the first thing you do when you get into a car? Yep, if you answered turn on your cell and start talking, that’s the correct answer!


    -Academic Dishonesty: Pretty much the norm. Cheating seems to rampant and the case rather than the exception now.


    -Racism: As a “non-protected” minority I feel much less comfortable now then 4 years ago. During a biology class when discussing polygenic inhertance and human height, the issue of nature vs nurture came up, which launched the instructor into a life expectancy tangent on developing countries, to which a student yelled out, “like China?” The instructor chuckled.


    The list goes on and on… if this is the future of the America I’m scared sh!tless. Oh, and the university I’m taking my prereqs bills itself as a top Midwest engineering university.


    Some causes:

  • Are parents failing?

  • Are high schools failing?

  • Is the collective IQ of the human race falling?


    Anyways, I’m so glad this is my last semester.
2

Given my most recent post on my blog, perhaps I shouldn’t respond to this.


Honestly, I don’t know what kind of folks attend college these days. EVERYTHING you hit on has over the past few years irritated the hell of out me too at some point or another. I’ve attended 3 different universities since 2003, looking for a place I felt comfortable. For example, I saw cheating beyond belief while at Hopkins (yeah, that “great school” in B’More), and consistently see a “me, me, me” attitude in general. Luckily, I’m at a very great place now but man, it was some trial and error getting here.

3

It’s a small point, but some of the change in libraries was instigated by librarians themselves. They want libraries to be lively, fun places where people get information, not just temples to sit and read in quiet contemplation. Unfortunately, they sometimes forget to provide and enforce quiet areas for people who DO actually need a place to get some reading and studying done. I’ve been in bookstores that are quieter than some libraries.

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  • ipitydafoo Said:
As of late I find myself highly irritated (but my resolve has not shaked!) by the people I share the campus with... maybe I'm just getting old and cranky (recently passed the 1/4 century mark myself) but there is something seriously wrong with today's students. A few observations:

- Library: For as far back as I could remember, you keep your voice down, concentrate, do research, get your homework done... fast forward to 2008. The library is more like a glorified starbucks now. Everyone pretty much converses away at normal volumes now. I was a pretty bad troublemaker growing up, but even I could understand and respect this concept.

- Laptops: This critique also applies to grad students as well. Some people like to type their notes up on laptops while the lecture is going on, that is fine. I did a random polling of what was going on in their screens during a lecture. Behold: Myspace, facebook, and at least 3 screens of world of warcraft.

- The Cell Phone: As a courtesy, I shut down the thing completely. Yes, I reach for the power button and press it, before an exam. I seem to be in the minority here. In every exam I've sat in, I've heard an average of about 3 phones go off. Perpetrators get only a slight slap on the wrist. Usage of phones is the same problem. I had to take a diagnostic test for an oscilloscope this morning, and the test administrator (who was also a student) was just yapping away at his cell the whole time. Oh, and what's the first thing you do when you get into a car? Yep, if you answered turn on your cell and start talking, that's the correct answer!

-Academic Dishonesty: Pretty much the norm. Cheating seems to rampant and the case rather than the exception now.

-Racism: As a "non-protected" minority I feel much less comfortable now then 4 years ago. During a biology class when discussing polygenic inhertance and human height, the issue of nature vs nurture came up, which launched the instructor into a life expectancy tangent on developing countries, to which a student yelled out, "like China?" The instructor chuckled.

The list goes on and on... if this is the future of the America I'm scared sh!tless. Oh, and the university I'm taking my prereqs bills itself as a top Midwest engineering university.

Some causes:

- Are parents failing?

- Are high schools failing?

- Is the collective IQ of the human race falling?

Anyways, I'm so glad this is my last semester.





Honestly, I think all of those causes are it. Parents fail horrendously, high schools fail pathetically, and the collective IQ of the human race is plummeting downwards.

I just automatically assume these days that college students are stupid and that you should interact with them like you would your pet dog, since more often than not, they're not anymore intelligent than one. The same especially holds true for most pre-med students in the 18-23 range as I have noticed that species of college students is even more fargone in the idiocy department than the typical variety.

Darwin would be pissed if he saw how huge the wrench is that we've thrown into natural selection.
5

Yikes, Tim. You don’t think that’s overly critical? I mean, yeah, I can identify instances of stupidity all around me - but it’s not like I’m immune to them, myself .

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  • pi1304 Said:
Yikes, Tim. You don't think that's overly critical? I mean, yeah, I can identify instances of stupidity all around me - but it's not like I'm immune to them, myself .



Dude, I go to community college. ;P

And naw, there's simple mistake-grade stupid and then there's stupid...what I witness is the latter. I do indeed see a lot of the stuff that was cited by the OP...especially being rude and disrespectful as far as cellphones in class, especially during exams. I've grown to have no tolerance for college students anymore as a result.
7

I agree with you. The first day of class this semester a girl sitting next to me in Calculus was texting the entire time. And yesterday I was in the library and these guys were talking like they were hanging out in a bar, completely disrespecting anyone trying to study. A similar thing happened tonight in the “math (not meth) lab” while I was studying. I’m sure there’ve always been rude people (and I hope I wasn’t, but I wouldn’t be suprised if I’ve been too loud or disruptive somewhere sometime) but I must just get more easily annoyed the older I get.

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  • RB Said:
I agree with you. The first day of class this semester a girl sitting next to me in Calculus was texting the entire time. And yesterday I was in the library and these guys were talking like they were hanging out in a bar, completely disrespecting anyone trying to study. A similar thing happened tonight in the "math (not meth) lab" while I was studying. I'm sure there've always been rude people (and I hope I wasn't, but I wouldn't be suprised if I've been too loud or disruptive somewhere sometime) but I must just get more easily annoyed the older I get.



Yeah, it's definitely pretty bad now. In my Calculus 1 class...mind you this is calculus, not exactly something you can ace without paying attention, every single time we had an exam, there'd be this one (always the same person) douchebag who would have a very LOUD cell phone always make all sorts of beeps and noises during exam. I think the teacher was a POS and a coward for not kicking him out of class and I think he was a POS and a douchebag for letting his phone distract the entire class during EVERY exam in the first place.

Seriously, to hell with having any sort of remorse or compassion for these bastards. I pay thousands of dollars a year to go to college; the last thing I want is some loser robbing me of my education by distracting me.
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I seriously just thought I was getting to be grumpy in my old age until I saw the comments on this thread!!! Thank God for my OPM family who understand me!!! Tuesday we had a very difficult math test ( I’m in a community college too) that I studied very hard for and the girl sitting next to me was smacking her gum and texting the entire time. I am not quite sure why she is there because she obviously doesn’t care about her education. Wheww!!! It feels good to finally vent about the kind of crap I’ve been putting up with in my CC for the last year. It’s off to the big 4-year in September though and I hear it gets a little bit better. :slight_smile:

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  • JCE Said:
I seriously just thought I was getting to be grumpy in my old age until I saw the comments on this thread!!! Thank God for my OPM family who understand me!!! Tuesday we had a very difficult math test ( I'm in a community college too) that I studied very hard for and the girl sitting next to me was smacking her gum and texting the entire time. I am not quite sure why she is there because she obviously doesn't care about her education. Wheww!!! It feels good to finally vent about the kind of crap I've been putting up with in my CC for the last year. It's off to the big 4-year in September though and I hear it gets a little bit better. :-)



Yeah, naw I didn't say anything before because I wasn't sure if I was just old-fashioned for only being 23, or if I was just one of the few people left with any sort of respect. I find I'm at odds a lot of the time with people in my own age group because of my views.

Honestly, once I get to UCSB, I'm just always going to sit in the front row no matter how big the lecture hall is, because I figure at a 4-year, if the professor saw someone texting in the front row or otherwise conducting themselves obnoxiously, especially during a test, they'll just get thrown out of class.
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  • In reply to:
As of late I find myself highly irritated (but my resolve has not shaked!) by the people I share the campus with... maybe I'm just getting old and cranky (recently passed the 1/4 century mark myself) but there is something seriously wrong with today's students. A few observations:

- Library: For as far back as I could remember, you keep your voice down, concentrate, do research, get your homework done... fast forward to 2008. The library is more like a glorified starbucks now. Everyone pretty much converses away at normal volumes now. I was a pretty bad troublemaker growing up, but even I could understand and respect this concept.

- Laptops: This critique also applies to grad students as well. Some people like to type their notes up on laptops while the lecture is going on, that is fine. I did a random polling of what was going on in their screens during a lecture. Behold: Myspace, facebook, and at least 3 screens of world of warcraft.

- The Cell Phone: As a courtesy, I shut down the thing completely. Yes, I reach for the power button and press it, before an exam. I seem to be in the minority here. In every exam I've sat in, I've heard an average of about 3 phones go off. Perpetrators get only a slight slap on the wrist. Usage of phones is the same problem. I had to take a diagnostic test for an oscilloscope this morning, and the test administrator (who was also a student) was just yapping away at his cell the whole time. Oh, and what's the first thing you do when you get into a car? Yep, if you answered turn on your cell and start talking, that's the correct answer!

-Academic Dishonesty: Pretty much the norm. Cheating seems to rampant and the case rather than the exception now.

-Racism: As a "non-protected" minority I feel much less comfortable now then 4 years ago. During a biology class when discussing polygenic inhertance and human height, the issue of nature vs nurture came up, which launched the instructor into a life expectancy tangent on developing countries, to which a student yelled out, "like China?" The instructor chuckled.

The list goes on and on... if this is the future of the America I'm scared sh!tless. Oh, and the university I'm taking my prereqs bills itself as a top Midwest engineering university.

Some causes:

- Are parents failing?

- Are high schools failing?

- Is the collective IQ of the human race falling?

Anyways, I'm so glad this is my last semester.



The Laptops, cell phones and academic dishonesty are all symptoms of the lack of classroom management by the professor. One of my favorite professors addressed all of these issues at the beginning of the semester. He had also included them in the syllabus (no cellphones and academic dishonesty). He told us these five rules (pet peeves):

1. No talking while I'm talking.

2. Turn off the cellphone or put on vibrate.

3. Don't be late.

4. Don't show up unprepared

5. Don't cheat.

If someone was talking during the lecture, then the professor would ask, "Excuse me. Do you have something to share with the rest of us?" When the inevitable cell phone would ring in the middle of class, there would be a collective chuckle in the classroom, and the professor would call the person out in a facetious manner. If a person was late, the person was instructed at the beginnning of the semester to enter through the back door. The last two never became an issue because of the first 3 rules.

Regards,

eagleeye


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  • eagleeye Said:
The Laptops, cell phones and academic dishonesty are all symptoms of the lack of classroom management by the professor.



The only problem with this is that nowadays when a few college kids don't get their way, they shoot up the school.
13

my library is like that…on the first floor. there is even a starbucks! lol. fl 2-5 are the quiet ones

14

Um, to an extent these are phenomena that can be ignored. Does it actually bother anyone here if a classmate is texting or playing games during lecture? Even if a phone goes off (which happens in medical school, too) it isn’t the end of the world. I’d rather have that than an explosive sneeze or a five minute coughing fit


In the library, I tend to listen to my favorite space music on soundproof Etymotics earbuds. Probably doing something nasty to my inner ear, though.


Maybe being a couple of decades older makes me a bit more tolerant, but when I see 22-year-olds doing this stuff I just shrug and chalk it up to youth. I guess when you’re closer to that age it’s a bit less tolerable. Happy studies!

15

Personally, I find these shenanigans as humorous reminders of who I once was & how far I had come at that time. Politically, I am a libertarian & firmly believe as long as what is going on is between consenting adults & is not deleterious to me, then it is none of my business. Hell, when I did show up for class, I was usually hung over or wearing a shit-eating grin and paying far more attention to the opposite sex than I was the lecturer.


Honestly, do these people’s activities really bother you? Are they really any of your business? I can see noise pollution during labs & mandating pagers/cell phones off or on vib during exams & lectures, but otherwise, these folks are only hurting themselves.


Cheating: should never be tolerated. And, these folks usually get what is coming to them. If it is flagrant, they’ll get caught or you can turn them in, if you are so inclined. However, if someone has to rely on cheating to pass a CC or general Ugrad course, they will never survive med school IF they are even able to get in.


I say relax & focus your efforts on your goals and not wasting good energy on amping up over distractions.



16

I haven’t posted in ages but I think I’ll chime in. I’m a 3rd year med student. I personally feel like American society is just in general getting less and less civilized these days, but that’s just me. Now, the academic dishonesty problem is a huge concern though, I think. In med school we often have to do patient write ups, and we get graded on how thorough they are. Often we don’t have access to the patient’s full records though. I’ve heard of classmates making some of the information up (small things mainly, like height and weight, but still…), or borrowing residents’ access codes to patients’ charts. (We’re specifically told NEVER to do this at my school). Just this week I got a write-up returned to me with a terrible grade because I didn’t include a height and weight. Well, it was nowhere in the chart! (And this was a patient I couldn’t have weighed myself because she refused to get out of bed). I’m debating what to do next time–write in fake info, steal an access code so I can look for it in her outpatient records, or make some pompous complaint to the course director about the ethical quandary students are in, which will never be listened to and will probably result in my getting a comment about being “difficult” in my course evaluation. Most likely I’ll borrow an access code… I hate breaking rules like that, but anyone who’s been through 3rd year of med school probably knows, like I do, that you can’t survive WITHOUT breaking some rules! And honestly, sometimes doing things that seem unethical. It’s hard to find a balance.


Students copying from Up to Date Online is another thing (for you premeds, this is a website with medical info). We aren’t taught or expected to cite properly, and outright blatant plagiarism happens a lot, because no one in med school takes these written assignments very seriously. Coming from a humanities background, this never ceases to shock me. I think most students don’t mean to do anything wrong, but we’re in an environment where it’s so common almost no one even notices.


I think the other complaints about cell phone use and all that–yeah, it’s annoying, but every generation bugs the ones before it, so what else is new?

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  • pushkin Said:
I think the other complaints about cell phone use and all that--yeah, it's annoying, but every generation bugs the ones before it, so what else is new?



Sad but probably true statement...so I wonder what happens when the same generation you're in drives you crazy? My parents keep telling me with my attitude I need to find a girl who's like in her early 30s so I'm on the same page with her. But hey, if she's attractive and nice, no complaints if that can be pulled off...
18

Definitely nothing wrong with that, if you can find one. My husband is 8 1/2 years younger than me. We started dating when he was 22.

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  • Emergency! Said:
Definitely nothing wrong with that, if you can find one. My husband is 8 1/2 years younger than me. We started dating when he was 22.



Now THAT's what I'm talking about, you go girl!
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  • Emergency! Said:
Definitely nothing wrong with that, if you can find one. My husband is 8 1/2 years younger than me. We started dating when he was 22.



Sweet, there is yet hope.