I am a 24 year old law student at a relativley good law school.
I was thinking of quitting law school to pursue medicine, I have a 3.2 undergrad GPA. I know this is not a stellar GPA and I am curious how med schools will take into account me quitting law school and the Bs I got a few years ago as an undergrad?
I am confident i can do well in the sciences with the study skills I have gained in law school. I am thinking of doing a postbacc program. Any advice? thanx
Quote:
I am a 24 year old law student at a relativley good law school.
I was thinking of quitting law school to pursue medicine, I have a 3.2 undergrad GPA. I know this is not a stellar GPA and I am curious how med schools will take into account me quitting law school and the Bs I got a few years ago as an undergrad?
I am confident i can do well in the sciences with the study skills I have gained in law school. I am thinking of doing a postbacc program. Any advice? thanx
Hi there,
The big question will be “Why?” Are you doing this for economic reasons thinking that you might be able to make more money as a physician than a lawyer? You won’t be making more money in today’s healthcare climate of very poor reimbursements to physicians.
Medical school is not a reward for getting good grades and doing well on the MCAT. Medical school provides professional training for people who want to practice medicine. You are going to have to convince an admissions committee that you are serious about the practice of medicine grades or not. The quality of the law school that you attend will not affect this.
Figure out how to sell your new-found interest in medicine and get a competitive application out there. Be sure that you are interested in practicing medicine and be ready to defend your choice because it isn’t a “cake walk” even with an MD degree. Be ready to defend your switch and why you are not a “flake”.
Otherwise, welcome to the group!
Natalie
Quote:
I am a 24 year old law student at a relativley good law school.
I was thinking of quitting law school to pursue medicine, I have a 3.2 undergrad GPA. I know this is not a stellar GPA and I am curious how med schools will take into account me quitting law school and the Bs I got a few years ago as an undergrad? I am confident i can do well in the sciences with the study skills I have gained in law school. I am thinking of doing a postbacc program. Any advice? thanx
In addition to what Natalie has said, AdComms want to be clear that you are not a “student dilettante,” that you truly did make a mistake in beginning law school, that you aren’t just casting about trying to find something that “fits” as a career. You need to be passionate about medicine. You perhaps weren’t at the national conference last year, but Allan Kirk from the NIH commented many many times in his presentation, [paraphrased] “If there is anything else you would be happy doing, do it. Medicine is a lot of hard work.”
AdComms want to know that you have challenged yourself that medicine truly is the career for you, not just obtained clinical experience to prove anything to them. I hope I’m not a bit off-track here in what you were wanting to know.
Cheers,
Judy
Allan was at the OPM conference??? Just dropping his name like that doesn’t do the man justice. He was playing for the Boston Pop and decided he wanted to be a tranplant surgeon after reading an article on kidney transplants. Took the prereqs within the following year…while in medical school also took PhD courses…while in residency took 2 years “off” to complete PhD…was THE Navy’s tranplant surgeon and now continues his research at the NIH.
He is one man I listen to. While he’s a clinical scientist he is the best damn MD I’ve met. Great skills with his hands as well as with people. I can sing his praises all day but he’s also a demanding SOB… 
If there is ANYTHING besides medicine then you should go with that. He says the same with surgery. I’ve flipped back & forth whether or not medicine and it always comes back to medicine for me. If medicine is where your heart is at then go for it!
PERSONALLY! I would finish law school then apply to medical school. Finish what you start. The degree may come in handy down the road. What about the possibility of taking pre-req classes in conjunction with law classes? I know it’s a load but it wasn’t simple praise that I mentioned that about Allan taking PhD courses when others were just happy to finish the med. school curriculm. Perhaps a career in medical law maybe up your alley?
Allan’s computer administrator is an MD also. He discovered after the 2nd year of medical school he didn’t want to be a doctor! He pressed on, earned his MD and never looked back…at practising medicine. He’s happier for it and just as glad he finished…Food for thought.
Hi!
The “if there is anything else do that instead” idea is being mentioned a lot lately both here and on SDN. I had a resident tell me this many years ago and that conversation single-handedly scared me away from the field for a long time. Lately I’ve been understanding it a bit better as more of a “reverse” motivational phrase. It gets you thinking about whether you want this more than anything else. It helps you see that if there is nothing else you’d rather do that then you must start working towards this.
For some reason this morning I am having a hard time with the phrase again. OK so yes we do want only the most interested people; those for whom this is a calling. What happens to people who have multiple interests INCLUDING medicine? For example the above mentioned doctor . . . He obviously loves music very much. It takes a very dedicated person to achieve the level of success in music that he did. He was already enjoying a successful career in it and had no practical need for leaving it. I’m sure he didn’t just wake up one day and no longer love music. Him having other interests obviously did not hurt his ability to also excel in the medical field. Should he not have done medicine because he could have just stayed in music? I’m sure all would say NO.
If we were to pick the people who are only made happy by medicine wouldn’t we end up with one-sided close-minded doctors?
I’m not asking this to cause an argument. These are just questions I struggle with all the time in trying to make up my mind about this whole thing. I am interested in so many fields myself (e.g. Ethnomusicology, Math, Education, Public Health, AND Medicine) and it’s tremendously difficult for me to decide if I’m suited for this. As of now I’m working towards it because any time I try focusing on other stuff I end up thinking about Medicine again. But what will happen to me once I am fully involved in Medicine and have to push those other things aside?
How do others deal with this issue?
Quote:
The “if there is anything else do that instead” idea is being mentioned a lot lately both here and on SDN. I had a resident tell me this many years ago and that conversation single-handedly scared me away from the field for a long time. Lately I’ve been understanding it a bit better as more of a “reverse” motivational phrase. It gets you thinking about whether you want this more than anything else. It helps you see that if there is nothing else you’d rather do that then you must start working towards this.
I have heard the first part of that in reference to a number of careers (theatre, journalism, law, politics, film making, etc). I had a point but lost it, if I find it, I will let you know.
I don’t think that the idea is that we only want the people most interested in medicine to be our peers. I felt that the statement comes from thet fact that medical school , residency training and life as an attending is VERY challenging, stressing every part of your personal and professional lives in many ways, and that you must truly want to do this or you will be miserable. That was my take on how that phrase was presented at the convention last year.
Tara
Halcyon,
I’ve said that phrase myself–but obviously I keep my interests in other things. For instance, writing. But I find that one needs very strong motivation for medicine; and if you have that, then the rest can follow along alongside to some degree.
Also, of course, I partly chose medicine because of its flexibility–so there’s probably ways that medicine would allow you to explore all of the things you’re interested in. I met a guy on a plane to Cape Town who was a doc in Britain; taught himself how to be a DJ and played at a club for a while; then was going to Papua New Guinea for two years to work as a doc (and said he would bring his DJ gear with him).
There is nothing in your list that is not part of medicine (even ethnomusicology). Math, education, public health–all integral parts of various parts of medical practice. If you ended up being a public health doc in a community with a strong musical tradition and used music to promote public health messages (there are songs around the world about oral rehydration solution, for instance); and math to do disease surveillance and epidemic modelling, i think you’d manage to keep all those interests satisfied with just one job.
I think the question is whether it continues to move you to imagine youself as a doctor–that it is not only interest but emotion (passion) that drives you.
joe
JDStudent,
I actually got around to signing up just so that I could reply to your post. Normally, I am here soaking up information and advice, not giving it.
Anyhow, I am a recent law grad (2002) and I have been working in law for close to 2 years now. I know a lot of people (particularly premeds) tell you to finish the JD bc the adcoms will seriously consider/doubt your ability to finish/complete things. That may be true, but I don’t think that spending the $$$ and the years will be worth it. The decision to enter medicine late in the game or after a change from any field/study is going to be non-traditional no matter what. Most pre-meds have known this is what they want to do from the time they are 18 and guide their undergraduate decisions/life from thereon with that goal. If you finish law school, but don’t practice - adcomms will question if you will complete med school and then not practice. Or if you complete law school, work a couple of years, adcoms will question whether you will do the same with medicine. Either way, you’re going to have to answer question in some form or another that you feel certain that you know what you’re getting into and that you are not serial career changer or suffer from the Peter Pan syndrome. Personally, I don’t see the argument that you finished law school and realized it wasn’t for you anymore compelling than the argument that mid-way thru law school that it wasn’t for you.
I’m telling you this based on my experience: if you don’t like the law now and are having serious doubts, GET OUT. I actually liked law school, it’s the practice that I found unbearable. If it’s law school (socratic method) specifically that you don’t like, then maybe you’ll like the practice. But if you’re having doubts about the practice NOW (and these doubts are well-formulated/explored), then I think you would do yourself a huge disservice to spend more money on an education that you will not use and a practice you will despise (whether it be for medicine or not).
You need to ask yourself a lot of questions: What is that I don’t like? Law school? The practice that I envision? Are there practice areas (litigation v. transactional) that may interest me and not be dominated by the doubts you have? Is it private practice that you don’t like, then consider alternatives (government, public interest, etc.)? What is that I like about medicine? Volunteer and speak to people currently in the field to determine that you have a realistic and not-overly idealistic view of the profession? Medicine and law are too of the most stressful professions and have high incidences of dissatisfaction among those practicing. Make sure that the same unrealistic notions that drew you and have now turned you away from law, are not the same myths that are calling you to medicine now?
Figure out these questions to see if you can make a go of the study/profession you’ve started. If no, I say get out. I wouldn’t waste another $60k on an education that you know you will have no use for, just so that you can preempt the adcoms question about whether you can finish what you started. You’d be surprised - it’s pretty easy for M.D.s to understand why someone would leave the profession of law. Nobody hates lawyers more than M.D.s these days.
In the end of the day, this is your life and it’s a short one. If you know this is not for you, then you are not doing anyone any favors by persisting in a situation that will only lead you to a dead end.
You know, even with overwhelm, I get jacked every day to go to school…except for today because last night Christopher wouldn’t go to sleep and I got kid duty and had to stay up and watch Discovery with him and we watched Extreme Storms and everytime something big happened on the screen he said “Boom!” or "Owwy"in the cutest possible voice mind you, but it really was cute, but I did learn to tell Debbie to never let him have a Brownie after dinner ever ever ever again. 
Other than that I was really jacked to go to school except that I rolled over and turned off the alarm and went back to sleep. Screw Neuro…I can read the notes today anyway…
Thanks for that advice.
Its nice to hear from other people who practice law. I am curious what it is about practice that you do not enjoy? I actually do not mind law school. I just wonder if a career in the law is going to be as fulfilling and fun as law school has been. The only thing that makes me think it might be is the people. Right now I am volunteering with legal aid helping people with their leases, and tenant rights. I love the client interaction!
Question is will I love practice? Many parts of the law seem boring! And honestly I am not sure how much I like legal writing… If I can email you sometime that would be great. Hope to hear from you soon.
Hi JDstudent,
I’m not a law student, and I don’t really know much about the legal profession, so I don’t have any specific advice about what you should do. I imagine you probably have reasons for being doubtful about law as a career that you haven’t gone into detail here–but I’d still be sure to get an accurate view of medicine as a profession, and also of medical school and the pre-medical requirements, before making any decisions. Sit in on classes, or ask friends yours who’ve been to med school, and get to know some doctors.
I read what you said about some areas of the law being boring, and not liking legal writing. But there are LOTS of boring areas of science! And there is very little room for choosing electives either as a premed or a med student. As for doctors, I think they often spent more time than they’d like filling out papers. So you wouldn’t be escaping those ills of the legal profession by going in the medical direction.
My brother started law school one year after I started back as a premed. He’ll be done next spring, and I won’t even have started med school yet! I don’t feel bad about that, but it’s definitely a long haul, and at times it’s a grind. Science can be really wearying sometimes–like when it is the first nice day in months and you can’t go outside because you have to learn chapter 23 of your organic chem book, the one about polymers or whatever, which is about as boring as anything could possibly get. I’m serious.
Anyway, check out your options, and keep an open mind. There are many things you can do, and you shouldn’t rush!
Andrea
My reasons for not liking law are somewhat hard to capture. In short, one of the reasons I went into law is because I wanted to help people and I think has been my main source of frustration. I envisioned myself fighting for people’s rights. I have found that while I am fighting for one person’s rights or benefits, I essentially taking it away from another. I also hoped I went get a lot of client interaction and I don’t. People often tell me that M.D.s have to deal with quite a bit of paperwork as well. I have no problem with writing contemporaneous notes or even filling out time sheets (which is probably equivalent to the patient history, reimbursement/hospitals forms that doctors, or the office manager, need to fill out), it is the constant research and writing. I am a litigator yet my days revolve around paper and the written word. It is very much like being a professor without students or student writing research papers. It’s a lot of research and writing that requires a lot of thought. To some, this is fine. But as I go on, I realize how ill-equipped I am to have these research/writing assignments and deadlines always looming. It is not a good fit for my personality…I need something more active. In my short time in practice, I pursued and research of areas of law (that seem more interesting) but in the end I find that those are not for me either.
There is always the possibility of working in the public interest (e.g. Legal Aid) or a quasi solo practitioner office where you will get more hands-on experience. I did several clinics in law school and found it to be more depressing. I found that for the most part your hands are tied by the system and a history which insures that the injustice will continue and a solution evades you always. It’s just sad to me. Additionally, if you work in a quasi solo practitionar or a small litigation outfit, you can get more client contact and hands-on experience, but I have found to be a trade-off. I enjoy working in intense, highly complex, novel legal situations (not the run of the mill custody adjudication, residential real estate contract, etc.). I’m not trying to be elitist or snobby, but I’ve found that when you take the practice down a notch to get more experience, you also lose the sophistication of the practice. I find that sometimes there is a lack of refinement and much of it is theatrics/smoke and mirrors. I certainly think that everyday real estate lawyers are necessary and serve a person; I just don’t want to be one.
Also, in my studies, I was able to gain a view into the medical world; I studied and heard about all the things Drs. complain about, but I learned that I loved their job and if they don’t want it, I’ll take it. Seriously, it was not easy to get here and admit to myself that law wasn’t for me. It was supposed to be, but it wasn’t. I know that medicine has a lot of negative aspects (some the same as law), but I really think that they won’t bother me in that setting. Also, based on my background, I don’t think I will bothered by malpractice (nobody loves to get sued, but I understand it) or HMO’s - as much as current doctors, which seems to be a big source of their disillusionment.
Also, remember that there are many areas of law where you will never have to touch legal writing again (any thing other than litigation). If it was some classes you didn’t like first year (e.g. real property, criminal pro/law) -remember, that 2nd and 3rd years you choose your classes according to what interests you so you can avoid anything like them again if you don’t intend to practice in those areas. If I could make a generalization, I’d say that the people who will be happy in law are those are somewhat corporate-oriented - but if you want to help everyday people will have a harder time.
Feel free to PM me, if you have any specific questions.
I also wanted to add that I don’t think that you should look at the ease/duration of 2d and 3d year as a reason to choose a life-long profession. While it’s true that you’ll be practicing for years by the time an equivalent pre-med would be a resident, I don’t see why anyone would view this as a good thing. If you hate the practice. is it really a good that you will be in it sooner and longer (the only benefit is money and that is with the caveat that you work in a large corporate large firm working 80 hours a week). If the practice is not for you, it doesn’t matter how young you’ll be when you start, there will only be more days to hate and Mondays to dread. Sure, the length and difficultly of premed/medical school and beyond should be a factor, but only to the extent to determine how bad you want it. But I wouldn’t look at the ease and duration of law school comparatively to determine whether law is for you - law school and practice two entirely different beasts. If the practice were like law school, I’d be in love with it. And like I said in my first post, if it’s the practice (try to get a job your first summer where you could envision working and then see) you don’t like, then get out sooner than later, even if it’s not medicine. There are more than 2 professions in this world - it’s not law v. medicine.
"There are more than 2 professions in this world - it’s not law v. medicine."
This is definetly true. In my time in the retail industry, I’ve found several jobs that many would consider very cool. For instance, one of my relatives makes $150 K (only in mid-20s) doing “assortment planning” for store floors. He basically analyzes consumer perception and demographic to decide the most productive products for company X to buy and where on the floor to place those products to catch the view of a specific customer. I never even knew such a field in business existed before I came on board at this company. Is it for me? No, but my relative LOVES it. There’s a ton of strategy and number-crunching involved as well as some good old fashioned detective work. So I can see how one might find it appealing.
There are plenty of unique specialties in and outside of medicine. I agree with iwant2B in the sense that (especially in a poor economy) people are made to believe that the only guarantees for fulfillment and financial security in life lie in medicine or law. It’s simply not true.
Thank you all for your advice
really the only thing that keeps me going in Law School is the idea that I will get to interact with clients and help them. I recently started helping people with their leases and I love it. The thing that scares me about the law is that so many lawyers I talk to hate what they do, or are not enthusiastic.
Most of my classmates do not even know why they are in law school. I get the feeling that many of them are here by default. I am not sure what practicing is going to be like, but I can say for sure that I am sick of legal research already. Its so boring and dry! I am sure that medicine has its share of boring days. But the law seems to have 10 times as many!
Quote:
Thank you all for your advice
really the only thing that keeps me going in Law School is the idea that I will get to interact with clients and help them. I recently started helping people with their leases and I love it. The thing that scares me about the law is that so many lawyers I talk to hate what they do, or are not enthusiastic.
Most of my classmates do not even know why they are in law school. I get the feeling that many of them are here by default. I am not sure what practicing is going to be like, but I can say for sure that I am sick of legal research already. Its so boring and dry! I am sure that medicine has its share of boring days. But the law seems to have 10 times as many!
Hi there,
I could say the exact same thing about many of my classmates from medical school. I promise you, that if I had to practice Internal Medicine, I would be bored to tears everyday. If I couldn’t do surgery, there is little in medicine that I would be interested in doing. I didn’t always feel that way but as residency progresses, I find that I have little interest in anything outside of surgery. (This may be part of the process as I get more specialized).
The bottom line is that you have to figure out what you want to do and pursue it. The caveat about medicine is that it often takes years of study and work to get to a point where you actually know what you want to do. There are plenty of third year medical students who are having second thoughts about medicine too.
Natalie