Hi everyone I am new to the forum. I just want to give you my background and ask an honest question of what you guys might think my options are. This is going to be super long but here I go…
My college journey started about 6 years ago when I was admitted to a middle tear university with about 15,000 students. This was totally culture shock for me having attended only small schools my whole life. With all that said and done I unfortunately was academically dismissed after my sophomore year with a 1.9 gpa. Following that I enrolled myself into a extension of a larger university in my area and unfortunately became very ill that quarter and I ended up hospitalized during midterm week. I unfortunately only achieved a 1.0 or so that quarter. With that said I left my dreams of being a doctor in despair and ended up at a local community college taking nursing pre-reqs since my parents and others thought the intensity of medicine was not for me. That semester I did well and achieved a 3.5 but even with my first good gpa I didn’t feel content and still felt the calling of becoming a doctor. So I enrolled into a pre-med class over the summer retaking a class I had failed twice already at my first university calculus 1. Luckily I had earned a C in it this time around. So I continued on my pre-med track at the CC and that fall semester enrolled in second semester bio, physics 1, and calculus 2 and earned a 2.7 overall. The following semester feeling a little let down I strived even harder in my classes. That semester I took physics 2, gen chem. 1 (Third re-take after two failures at first university), psychology and advanced writing and earned a 3.8 (earned an A in all classes except physics 2 which was a B+). So feeling bold I re-enrolled at the local large university and took gen chem. 2 over the summer and first semester bio. I got a C in bother classes. After that I felt that I could improve and continued at the university. My first quarter there I enrolled in third semester gen chem. w/ lab where I earned only a C- in both, second quarter bio and earned a C. The following quarter I still continued hoping for the better since gen chem was over. I enrolled in ochem, genetics, and micro econ. I got an F in ochem, C- in genetics, and a C+ in micro econ. I was getting very depressed and borderline suicidal knowing how hard I was working. Still I continued. I enrolled that third quarter in ochem 1 again, cancer bio, and an Elvis music class (I know random). Somewhere in the middle of my depression that semester and after realizing that maybe big universities were not my learning style, I applied to a small Christian liberal arts university not too far from my house and was admitted within 2 weeks of my application. With this inspiration I did my best to not fail any of my classes and succeeded. I got a C in first quarter ochem, C in cancer bio, and a B+ in elvis. So I took the summer off to recuperate from a crazy year and hopefully start fresh. When I started that semester it felt like a new beginning but feeling of fear and uncertainty still lingered. Overall I did ok last semester despite fear holding me back from my full potential I was still able to achieve a 3.3. A C (again) in first semester ochem, a B+ in ochem lab, a B in molecular bio, a B in molecular bio lab, an A in public speaking, and an A in my religion class. Currently I am enrolled in Ochem 2 w/ lab and haven’t gotten any feedback in terms of grade since my teacher is a little scatter brained, but have a B in comparative anatomy but it’s on its way to an A, a A- in comparative anatomy lab but again close to an A, a solid A in genetics and genetics lab, and A’s in my two religion classes. I am hoping to round out the semester with at least a 3.8. I am also enrolling next semester to take bio chem w/ lab, histology w/ lab, neuroscience w/lab and a religion class 
Sorry I know that was super long but I wanted to be as comprehensive as possible so you guys could give me your best advice and honest opinion. I just want to know what you guys honestly think my best option is at this point. Post bacc? Or apply straight to the Caribbean? Or whatever other options I may have. I am graduating in one year so I still have a little time. Oh and my cum. gpa is only a 2.5 And I have not taken the MCAT. Oh and also I am thinking of attending the conference you guys are hosting this June at Orlando and hopefully gain some insightful information and hopefully some inspiration as well and also meet some of you! For the past 4 years I have been carrying this dirty secret of mine and it finally feels so nice to be out with it. Thanks all for reading all this I know it was long and any comments or opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
-shaina
Shaina,
Welcome to OPM!
Sounds like you’ve had that weighing on your chest for quite some time.
Here’s my take, for what it’s worth.
Keep in mind that whenever we challenge ourselves to reach new heights, we have to do things we’ve never done.
That being said, if being a doctor is your goal, you have got to get those grades up.
Since you have already taken quite a few pre med requirements, and done not so stellar on quite a few of them, you’ll need to find a Special Master’s Program.
They are designed to aid flagging GPAs. Admission committees look at two things very hard, generally; GPAs and MCATs. For better or worse, these have become the biggest indicators of whether a student can handle the rigors of Med School training. As it stands, you probably won’t get a second look without some serious recommittment to getting a better GPA.
Remember, nothing is impossible when you put your mind to it. It sounds like you are young which is a real advantage. Definitely come to the conference, and soak up some of the positive vibes and inspirational stories these folks have to offer.
Good luck to you, and never give up on your dreams. Where there is a will, there is a way!
Hi Shaina,
Welcome. I’m sure the experts will give you some great advice soon. I was in a similar situation myself and I found something that helped me to identify some of my shortcomings and move forward (from a 2.34 cGPA… even lower science GPA).
Here is something I came across at the start of my premed journey that helped tremendously. Taken from http://www.sunysb.edu/healthed/enrichment.html
- In reply to:
When that happens, a student can choose to get on with their life and follow a different path to success and fulfillment. Some press onwards, resolved to work hard to build the track record of quality grades that medical school admissions committees look for.
Very often, the students who are willing to put in the extra time to pursue their dream look for "post-baccalaureate enrichment programs:" courses of study (often for a master's degree or a certificate) offered at a medical school or the graduate science division of a medical school.The basic idea behind an enrichment program is to give students the opportunity prove themselves by taking demanding science courses. Do these programs guarantee your success? No. Whether or not an enrichment program is beneficial depends on the student's ability to earn strong grades in the program. So, the main questions really are, "Why didn't I do as well as I could have in my science courses when I was an undergraduate?" and "Am I able to perform better in a program that might be even more demanding than undergraduate work?" and, finally, "Am I willing to sacrifice considerable time (and tuition money) for the sake of getting into medical school when I know that the outcome is uncertain?"
I think you need to have good answers to the 3 questions at the end of that paragraph. The very first question is crucial. I believe that everyone that is in our boat should have a good answer to that one. I had to answer these questions honestly.
Also, I would try as much as possible to get into a US MD/DO school before anything else. There are several pitfalls that await even the best student when going to the Caribbean (fair or not). The major pitfall is the possibility of graduating with a MD and being unable to land a residency. Changes to the application process, the increasing number of US medical students and the relatively stable number residency spots mean that there is a crisis coming for Caribbean medical school graduates. IMHO, it is worth taking 2+ years of increasing GPA to get into medical school in the US.
All the best. I really hope that you will fulfill your dream.
My $0.02
Q
- qtippMD Said:
Also, I would try as much as possible to get into a US MD/DO school before anything else. There are several pitfalls that await even the best student when going to the Caribbean (fair or not). The major pitfall is the possibility of graduating with a MD and being unable to land a residency. Changes to the application process, the increasing number of US medical students and the relatively stable number residency spots mean that there is a crisis coming for Caribbean medical school graduates. IMHO, it is worth taking 2+ years of increasing GPA to get into medical school in the US.
Not quite sure where you are getting your data about increasing number of US medical students and stable number of residency spots - Using the last 3 years as a sample, data from NRMP and AAMC - there is growth of both matriculants to medical school and graduates matching to PGY-1 spots. From 09-10, there was a 1.5% growth in medical school matriculants and 1.9% growth in PGY-1 matches. From 10-11 there was a 3.02% increase in medical school matriculants and a 2.9% increase in PGY-1.
While I agree that getting into a US program is typically the priority, Caribbean medical school graduates, if they work hard enough, can do just fine. I've worked with a few of them (and actually went to school with a couple, after their school closed due to hurricane damage and they got distributed to US schools).
The missing component in this whole equation is your MCAT score. With that information you'll be able to get a clearer picture of what you're working with.
Study, study, study like it's your job for the MCAT and go from there.
Good luck!
Hi! Thanks so much for your advice. I am actually looking into post baccs and SMP’s but I am somewhat disheartened when I find that a lot of the schools won’t even take me because I don’t have a 3.0. I feel somewhat stuck. But you are right my MCAT will be the biggest impact I can make on my application to change the game. Hopefully I can do well on that. I am shooting for a 35 and up but we will see. I am actually starting on my princeton review class this summer. But before that I will be attending the conference to get some positive vibes going. I actually just bought my tickets and registered for the conference today. Hah. But thanks again for taking the time to read my post and give me some feedback
Thank you for your kind words of advice. My first priority is of course US MD/DO schools. I will do anything and everything I can do, exhaust all resources to get into them. But sometimes at this point I fear my best and my everything may not be enough. So I guess in 4 years if all is still no good I will apply to the Caribbean. But thanks for your time and advice! I greatly appreciate it
- Doc Gray Said:
- qtippMD Said:
Changes to the application process, the increasing number of US medical students and the relatively stable number residency spots mean that there is a crisis coming for Caribbean medical school graduates.
Not quite sure where you are getting your data about increasing number of US medical students and stable number of residency spots - Using the last 3 years as a sample, data from NRMP and AAMC - there is growth of both matriculants to medical school and graduates matching to PGY-1 spots. From 09-10, there was a 1.5% growth in medical school matriculants and 1.9% growth in PGY-1 matches. From 10-11 there was a 3.02% increase in medical school matriculants and a 2.9% increase in PGY-1.
Fair enough. Here's the data from the NRMP that I'm looking at (covering several years):
While residency spots are growing, they are growing at a slower rate than the number of medical students seeking those spots. Projecting to 2017 and beyond is beyond my pay-grade but recent changes (SOAP, All-in) coupled with the new schools opening and U.S. Schools increasing their spots point to a higher rate of change for applicants when compared to available positions. US students match at a higher rate than IMG or FMGs (international and foreign medical graduates respectively). Do FMGs and IMGs match? yes.
Thanks for clarifying my admittedly awkward statement.
The new "All-in" policy is eliminating pre-matches which is an avenue that some Caribbean students use to obtain a residency position. An interesting article related to the issue: Why your waiter has a MD
This is not my area of expertise so I'm sure I'll be corrected shortly. That said, the little I do know points to it becoming harder for IMG and FMG students to match in the US. Thanks for the clarification.
Q
- qtippMD Said:
- Doc Gray Said:
- qtippMD Said:
Changes to the application process, the increasing number of US medical students and the relatively stable number residency spots mean that there is a crisis coming for Caribbean medical school graduates.
Not quite sure where you are getting your data about increasing number of US medical students and stable number of residency spots - Using the last 3 years as a sample, data from NRMP and AAMC - there is growth of both matriculants to medical school and graduates matching to PGY-1 spots. From 09-10, there was a 1.5% growth in medical school matriculants and 1.9% growth in PGY-1 matches. From 10-11 there was a 3.02% increase in medical school matriculants and a 2.9% increase in PGY-1.
Fair enough. Here's the data from the NRMP that I'm looking at (covering several years):
Q
Yes, there is a swarm of new applicants, and that always seems to happen when the economy tanks.
- In reply to:
Actually, it's not. The data is from the NRMP and it is comparing the number of applicants for PGY-1 spots vs available PGY-1 spots. It has nothing to do with applicants for medical school.
It is well worth your while to go to NRMP data and read through the various reports. This will give you an excellent view of statistics for matching in various specialties for US allopathic seniors, independent applicants, FMGs, US citizen FMGs, etc.
- Emergency! Said:
- In reply to:
Actually, it's not. The data is from the NRMP and it is comparing the number of applicants for PGY-1 spots vs available PGY-1 spots. It has nothing to do with applicants for medical school.
It is well worth your while to go to NRMP data and read through the various reports. This will give you an excellent view of statistics for matching in various specialties for US allopathic seniors, independent applicants, FMGs, US citizen FMGs, etc.
Emergency - I’m not sure how the number of residency spots is growing unless some schools had spots which they were not attempting to fill. It’s my understanding that in 1997 federal funding for residency spots froze the number of funded residencies -and they haven’t changed since. Just lobbied on the Hill 2 weeks ago for Congress to increase the residency spots for GME by 15% over 3 years to address the projected physician shortage of 70,000 in 10 years. We have increased the number of medical students and graduates without a comparable increase in residency spots. Hence the increasing competition which particularly faces Caribbean and other FMG’s.
kate
Just to add to this growing data discussion, attached is a summary of the match data for the past several years by graduate type (US-MD, US-DO, citizen IMG/FMG, non-citizen IMG, etc).
US citizen who are foreign medical graduates have 50% match rate compared to US-MD graduates which run 93% to 95% percent. The match rates likely vary widely by off-shore school but I have no data to examine.
Attached files 1332897065-resultsanddata2011.pdf (7.9 KB)Â
Thank you so much for your advice. I have been meaning to reply but that night my computer crapped out and classes got in the way for me to reply in a timely manner. But I will be doing my MCAT class over the summer and see where I am from there. But I agree my MCAT will be my deciding factor. Thanks again
So I guess the moral of this whole discussion so far is that it will be a struggle for residency spots if I come from the Caribbean but not impossible. So to make my life easier and give myself a better chance at competitive residencies I should first really try to get into a US MD/DO school and if not then the Caribbean. But my other question for all of you is what post bacc or SMP would you guys recommend. I tried calling around and it seems that I either don’t qualify because of my GPA or I am right around the bottom of their minimum GPA. So are there any programs that you guys may know of that will take a student in my position? Oh and how much do volunteering in a hospital count for a post bacc or SMP? Thanks again guys any and all advice is greatly appreciated
- PersistentPreMed Said:
If your asking how much will volunteering help you in getting in to a postbacc/SMP, the answer is not much.
If your asking how much volunteering will count in place of a good postbacc/SMP when applying to medical school, the answer is not much.
If your asking which postbacc/SMP might take you, the answer is DIY (do it yourself).
Many members simply setup their own PB at a local school (or multiple schools), taking the courses you need, seeking out the advisors, etc. It also has the advantage of usually less expensive
- Kate429 Said:
Kate, I have no idea of where the funding is cmoing from - all I know is that according to the NRMP data, there has indeed been an increase in spots. I know my program increased from 15 per year in last years graduating class to 20 per year in my class. My med school's EM residency program increased the number of EM spots as well. Our peds program increased the number of spots and surgery has applied to do so. I also know that there have been several new EM residency programs started in the past few years. I applied at two in Ohio and one in Illinois that were recruiting either their first or second class.
Thank you so much for your response. I was wondering on how to set up my own post bacc. As you can see I have finished many of the pre-reqs and am currently in the middle of finishing of some now as we speak. So what would I set up in my own post bacc class wise? Or is there a site or schedule you could recommend me to follow because I feel kind of clueless. In all honesty I would prefer a formal post bacc since it is more structured and I think structure/organization matches my personality type better rather than me feeling around. But if a formal post bacc is not an option because of my cum gpa I guess a informal one will have to do. Thanks again so much for your response