Thanks Joe! yeah I am sure that given enough time to do the PBL and having very well defined guidelines it would be highly beneficial. I just talked to a third year and like you said you have a patient that present with X symptons and you need to go and do your PBL for this patient and come up with a differential diagnosis…so I guess this is why there is PBL but still I find it a waste of time bc I have no clue where to start and how in depth to go…there are just too many questions that we are asked from our pbl from northern blots to chorionic villi sampling it is the whole gamut from one pbl…
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I am totally convinced that I hate PBL! it sucks. It is the blind leading the blind literally.
While I have yet to matriculate into med school, I have to say that I already know that PBL isn’t for me. I definitely prefer lecture style for many of the reasons you name (I’ve taken a few med school courses that were PBL, and if a gunner is in your group, forget about learning anything!)
I also want to comment on what I see are the benefits of attending a school like Mayo. It appears to me, that these schools treat their students extremely well provding an endless amount of resources of ANY kind to help you navigate the process of med school. The idea that an institution will do everything to see that evrey student graduates has suddently taken on new importance for me, as I remind myself why I’m retaking the MCAT so that schools on the level of Mayo are not out of reach to me.
On the less “important” side of things, I had an absolute blast yesterday at pathology grand rounds/seminar at Hopkins, and let me keep this real, having breakfast AND lunch waiting for you when you get there is a definitely plus in my book! So Efex, I’m feeling you on the “food” thing!!!
Continued success with school and my personal thanks for your posts. They’ve been invlauable to me on a level that you’ll NEVER know!
your comment about there is no way to learn via PBL with gunners in your group is right on! obviously gunners are found in every medical school class in the nation it is impossible to not have at least one gunner. Now, let me make this crystal clear a gunner is a person who does well above average in every exam/quiz/whatever actually they probly do extremely well but then makes sure that EVERYONE know this. There are extremely bright folks that ace every exam and quiz but keep it to themselves, do not brag, do not answer every question that professors ask within one nanosecond, and are just plain nice folks. A gunner not only brags every his/her scores, makes sure that everyone around can hear it, but also will NEVER give anyone the chance to answer any question bc they do it ALL the time. Gunners are arrogant individuals that exude arrogance and smugness and nobody likes them. Everyone talks about gunners and it would suck to be a gunner.
Path, Mayo is an awesome institution to get your medical education. They do care about the students and make sure that not one of us falls btw the cracks. It is not about how well you can regurgitate X or Y fact, but how to APPLY this knowledge. Many medical schools (and yes I have seen their exams and spoken with the students) will test you straight up what is this what is that…here we have to apply the knowledge which is what makes our exams pretty intense BUT then we really really really do well on the boards…the average here is 235 which is really really really good.
This week has gone by at the speed of light! we had our third mol bio quiz today with nothing but genetics on it and was extremely tough but fair. I studied hard for it and I am pretty confident that I did well. Today we are kicking off our weekend with a really nice dinner for all MMS1 and their families…this will start family weekend where our loved ones can learn about the ins and outs of our journey here. I would be highly ecstatic if not for the fact that we have our second gross exam this coming Tuesday which covers the thorax and abdomen and on Thursday we have our first immunology exam! ouch! the whole weekend will be spent studying for me. Thank goodness none of my family flew in for this event. Time is going fast and mol bio will be over in two weeks! yay my second medical school class will be over 9999 to go he he. Once mol bio ends we start with pathology and cell biology so we are always taking at least four courses at once.
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I definitely prefer lecture style for many of the reasons you name (I’ve taken a few med school courses that were PBL, and if a gunner is in your group, forget about learning anything!)
I think this is really dependent on how the PBL is run. At UTMB, gunners who tried to monopolize the discussion and make other students look bad did very poorly in PBL. Our facilitators are trained specifically to discourage this type of behavior. One the criteria we were evaluated on was our ability to work and play well with others and gunners typically didn’t do well with this. To their credit, however, they figured this out quickly and most gunning behavior stopped relatively early in first year.
The nice thing about PBL (I’ll admit I’m sort of biased) is that it has you working in much the same way you’ll be working the rest of your life. This includes working with obnoxious colleaques. The problem solving skills taught and reinforced were very helpful for me.
Take care,
Jeff
Holy Cow! what a weekend and week…okay here goes. We had our third mol bio exam (well really it is a quiz and counts for 15% of your grade the final is more) and I am happy to say that I passed woohoo! now the final in two weeks and we will kiss our second medical school class goodbye! we then had our gross anatomy written and lab yesterday and I passed another wooohoo! it was brutal but I thought much funner to take than the first exam with nothing but muscles and nerves…this one entailed the thorax and abdomen which has a LOT of organs, innervation and vasculature but I loved it! we are now starting the dreaded head and neck. Tomorrow is my first immunology exam which I am starting to study for right now 
holy cow because really I had waaay too much going on this past weekend with gross. We will see how this one goes…the weeks are really flying now and we are halfway done through gross I cannot believe it. Next week a fellow OPM’er and friend of mine xlurker is coming to Mayo for her interview and will be staying with me I look forward to hanging out although I will have to study for the mol bio final.
I did not do too hot on the first immunology exam (note to self if you have time take immunology I wish I had) obviously this part due to waiting to study until the last minute but when you have other things going on sometimes this is just not possible (at least not for me). The department chair is very approachable and we are meeting to day to discuss my exam and how to go from here. Again, another major benefit of going to Mayo is that if something goes wrong and you do not pass it is no big deal really. They will work with you to make sure that you understand the material and pass the class. For this class as long as your other exams are improving you should be fine and if for some weird reason you happen to fail the course you take an oral exam and will more than likely end up with a pass for the class. It does hurt to not pass an exam BUT it does not mean that you did not try or that you are a slacker or that you do not care. Life sometimes gets in the way specially those of us with families. So if you end up in medical school and you do not do as good as you always have (like me) do not get too worked up…things tend to even out during clinical years. Sometimes it is not how much you know but how you APPLY the little that you may know. Today is Friday and a very easy day with just mol bio and then we are off! BUT next Thursday we have our lab quiz for the head and we have to know every foramen in the cranium along with the cavities it connects and what the foramen has in it (nerves, blood vessels) this along with every bone in the cranium as well. So this weekend again is a huge study marathon because the cranium has more holes than I can even think of holy guacamole 
I met with the department chair to see what to do different and how to move on from here. I truly love the way Mayo just works with you no matter what. Everything will be fine and I just have to stay focused and kick arse in my next immunology exam coming up in two weeks. I will be meeting with a tutor that will help me focus on the key concepts to make sure that I am on the same sheet of music. I have been working this weekend on the cranium and let me tell you there are more bones and holes than I could ever imagine! although it is a lot…it is kind of fun but it takes many many reviews to get it down cold. The quiz is Thursday so I am doing good but I also have to keep up with the gross lectures, immunology, and mol bio. This is the problem there are so many balls in the air at one time that eventually one does fall. It is easy to study for one thing at a time but three or four? is insane specially when they are really in-depth and a lot of material per subject. Alas that is the nature of medical school. I do have a good group of core friends and that helps. We study together and help each other out. I also still teach my hip-hop class and that keeps me sane…
Okay guys I never like to discuss scores or anything like this but dang this time I am …I aced my skull quiz holy cow! there were 20 questions and it was a really fun quiz to take. I think that because it was highly visual it was very manageable IF you reviewed consistently over various days. I really am enjoying the head and neck section although it is very very complicated. My friend xlurker is here interviewing today and I am very excited for her. She arrived yesterday and we went for a nice long dinner after gross anatomy…ahhhh I needed that for sure. This weekend is going to be another study marathon…OMG ALL my weekends are study marathons. I am setting up appointments with a possible mentor in trauma surgery. I am really so far looking into going for a surgical specialty and having a mentor will be to my benefit and helpful. Today is our last day for molecular biology and genetics our final is Monday and I am sad to see this class go. I have not enjoyed the part where you do figure out the family tree and the calculations as much BUT I did enjoy learning about the various genetic disorders and how to counsel patients. It is now getting cold here up North aghhh! I am wearing a coat now…we will be starting pathology and cell biology next Tuesday so as usual we are always dealing with three-four classes concurrently. I am looking forward to this class.
It has been eons since I wrote but here it goes. I am done and the whole class passed our second course for MMS1! we all passed molecular biology and genetics wooohooo! It has been pretty intense since then but doable. I had my second immunology exam and thanks to the most amazing tutor AND skipping class and reading the syllabus on my own I passed it! hence the importance of knowing what works for your learning style best. To me sitting in a class (with great professors) passively because they are going too fast (never had immunology and NOTHIN made sense) was just not productive at all. I bought this basic immunology book and with my weekly tutoring sessions was able to pass and I understand the big concepts. We started pathology and cell biology right after we took our mol bio final and that class is going to be somewhat challenging. I feel that it would have been more helpful to have that either concurrently with physiology or after physiology but oh well. We have our first quiz on Monday and we will see what happens. In gross anatomy we are in the very very difficult head and neck section and the exam is looming ahead. This is the exam that most medical students do the worse in…I am excited that this semester is almost over OMG and I am looking forward to my Xmas break to spend time at home with my family.
Ahhh the first pathology quiz was not bad at all and the whole class passed it wooohoo! we have our third gross exam covering head and neck on Monday and this one is going to be a bear…we will see what happens. We are moving at the speed of light in pathology but it is coming together and I am learning quite a bit in that class that will be very important for patient care. Yesterday I was in the clinic with a general surgeon and it was great. I really enjoyed my time and learned a lot from this consultant. I am still considering GS but who knows what will really be my cup of tea. It is hard to really know for sure until you hit second year (Mayo starts clinicals early) and beyond. We have one more exam for immunology and we are done! wow. The exam is the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. I am taking that whole weeked off period no exceptions. I have friends coming over and need to spend time with my kiddies and hubby…weeeell maybe I will just study a little bit.
Hi efex101,
What immunolgy book did you use? I am starting immunology in the spring and am thinking about reading some over christmas. I’d like to get the big picture down before I start the class.
Thanks!
Jessica
The book I purchased can be found at www.campusi.com and type in basic immunology. It will be the first book listed on there with this link.
http://www.campusi.com/bookFind/asp/bookFindPriceLoad.asp?prodId=072160241X
Thanks!
Okay it has been eons since I posted. I passed head and neck both parts (lab and written) and by far it was the hardest exam but we all survived it. Pathology is going great and we had our second quiz…of course it does help to skip class every now and then and just read the syllabus and study from Robbins. The classes are pretty long M,W,F from 8-11 and then Tue, Thur from 8-9…so I find it much more productive to skip and study on my own on some days. I have been shadowing and I truly think that to keep your sanity you must do this to remind yourself of why you are studying your arse off. We had an awesome unity ball here at Mayo this past weekend (for medical students/staff/faculty and grad school) it was great with a band nice finger food, some but not much etoh, and everyone was super dressed up and looking maaahhhvelous! we had our last quiz for gross this monday and we all received our overall grades for the quizzes which is 10% of our grade.the whole class passed that portion so one hurdle down. we have four more gross classes thank God! by far that is the most time consuming class ever. Today we have our immunology final and we start allergy today right after the final.
Ahhh, the break was much needed and I did not crack one book open! I did extremely well in immunology and passed the class woohooo! we have two classes to complete this semester gross anatomy and allergy. Although we are taking pathology that class is not over until sometime in January. We have a lab quiz in pathology this Friday just a lot of slides since the beginning of the course…mostly case studies. Once that is over it will be time to study for the last gross exam covering the lower limb and perineum. Here at Mayo we also take the shelf exam for gross and it counts like an exam so I will be studying for that as well. I ordered my stethoscope online and hopefully it will come soon. I will be doing some serious shadowing this Xmas break and we start intro to the patient next semester…
OMG OMG OMG!!! the first semester is pretty much over where did time go??? holy cow! Okay, updates. I kicked arse on my path quiz but I do love that class it is actually very interesting on NOT just rote memorization like gross. I had my anatomy exam for lower limb and perineum this Monday and did extremely well on both the lab and practical woohooo! now that the freaking semester is over I get the hang of it how is that for ate up. Here are some pointers that may help you future MS1’s read the heck out of the BRS for gross anatomy and the high yield anatomy these two books cover ALL the important clinical correlation of the material for gross! I wish I had known this for my first exam and beyond…I just found out duh. These books are worth their weight in gold because they are concise (the freaking clinically oriented anatomy by Dalley and Moore are just too much with all the other stuff you are doing) and get to the point fast. Also the BRS has questions at the end of each section a la USMLE style so you can quiz yourself and see how you are doing. We also took today the shelf exam for gross and lemme tell ya, that exam has nothing on our exams here at Mayo holy cow! our exams are so much clinical stuff and so difficult that the shelf was not bad at all. I am so thankful for the way we get taught here and how things are done. I know that it was very hard for me many many times and I would cry and bawl and complain and bicht and gripe BUT now looking back I realize how much I have learned and what a huge advantage it is to have clinical questions from the get go. I mean, some of my gross anatomy exams are so complicated and convoluted that I was like WTF over? he he. Allergy went by we all passed and it was an okay course but just presented to us at the wrong time. Next semester we start with pathology (which continues from this semester) and the cutaneous system. I look back and realize just how much that I have accomplished and learned. By far gross was the most time consuming and difficult class for me it took hours upon hours to just pass that class but now I know that it does come together at some point albeit at the end… 
Hey, what’s up at Mayo? Anything going on down there right now? Are you sticking around for the holidays? By the way, what do med students do over christmas break?? (ha ha, that’s a joke. Applications have so taken over my life that now I can’t think of any aspect of life not revolving around med school.)
You’re shadowing, right? What kind of doc?
Yes, I am staying here during the holidays although I went to see my parents down in Arkansas. My grandmother is with my dad and she is showing signs of alzheimers. It was nice and warm there! no coat needed wow. I come back home and it is -10 with wind chill I am mostly shadowing GI (I love it!) and surgery (also love it!) we will see what else catches my interest. I need to shadow other specialties to get a nice look at what they do day to day. I am thinking of cardiology and pulmunologists…most of my colleagues left to go home for the holidays and will not be back until the day before classes start. My in-laws arrive today from Kansas City and we are planning on clooking/eating/shopping and repeating the cycle as many times as we need to I am so enjoying my break that I have already gone through two books and looking for more after today. I love reading and medical school is not conducive (sp?) to this.
All that shadowing sounds awesome! Especially the pulmonology–I’ve always been interested in what they do. So keep us posted. By the way, I am picking up many hints from you for how to succeed during first year!
I’m so sorry about the horrible weather we have here. I have thought about you a few times as I’ve walked to work the last couple days, wondering, what would anyone THINK who moved here from a warmer climate? It sometimes gets down to -30 in the winter, so just be prepared. I totally hate this cold–last night I went to a movie with a friend and I was practically crying when we had to go back to the freezing car.
Hey, since you are here over the holidays, and speaking of eating and cooking, if you are looking for something interesting to try, I would say to try to get ahold of some of the local traditional Christmas foods. Lefse is especially good–it’s sort of a Norwegian potato bread. And also krumkake and kransekake are delicious–they are cookies and almond cake. I’m just thinking of things off the top of my head that are actually unique to Minnesota and pretty good, to offset some of the misery caused by the weather. I’m not sure how good the grocery shopping is in Rochester, but they will no doubt have these things. 
Happy holidays!