I recently read on here (can’t remember where)
about how much more difficult it was for a healthcare or ancillary healthcare professional to get into medical school. Unfortunately the forum post that I read didn’t explain why.
Can anyone shed some light on why it is so difficult for someone already in the healthcare field with a Bachelor’s degree has a more difficult time (statistically) getting in to medical school than the typical Bio, Chem, and Physics degrees??
(References of health related 4 year degrees: BSN, PA, NP, EMS, Healthcare administration, Finance, etc…)
Oh!! And if there are some DO schools that are partial to these degrees could so somebody list them?
I wonder whether what you read was anecdotal, or supported in some way by evidence. There seem to be a lot of people who think that there must be a “magic” combination (including a specific bachelor’s degree) that is more likely to get you into medical school. For example, I think there is a myth that if you major in biology you have a better shot. But if you look at the data, this does not hold true.
I just now looked at some of AAMC’s statistics for 2012 applicants and matriculants, which are available online, and a little less than half of Biological Sciences majors were accepted, but also about half of Humanities majors were accepted. Of course, there are more Biological Sciences majors, but the proportion of acceptances is similar. The PDF I am referring to (available here: https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/ 2012factstable18.pdf ) does show that people who majored in “Specialized Health Sciences” (what that means is not precisely explained) had a lower acceptance rate. But I think you have to take this, and ALL of these statistics, with a grain of salt, as you do with any statistics. There are so many factors that go into medical school acceptance. I don’t think you can conclude from these numbers that there is a degree you should go for, in particular. Perhaps there would be a question from ADCOMS, if you got a BSN, for example, why you now want to go into medicine. Really, I think it is a valid question. But then what you need is an equally valid answer.
FYI, the gamut of AAMC’s statistics are available here, if you’re interested: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantm atriculant/
I’ve heard that Nurses and PA’s (Physician Assistants) have a harder time due to: 1) The fact that there are shortages of personell in these fields and 2)building on #1, these folks used these allied health careers as a “stepping stone” to a med school acceptance.
FYI, the #1 factor in who’s accepted to med school is having a parent with the “Dr” title, as in more than 75% of admitted students accoring to AMCAS. But for some reason, no one ever talks about this. I’m not throwing shade, I know my husband being an Engineering graduate from a top school will help my daughter who wants to follow in his footsteps.
But for some reason, competitive Type A’s seem to want people to think they did it ALL on their own.
- pathdr2b Said:
FYI, the #1 factor in who's accepted to med school is having a parent with the "Dr" title, as in more than 75% of admitted students accoring to AMCAS.
Path, where did you read this? That number sounds a bit over the top to me. I found AAMC stats saying that of all allopathic medical school matriculants in 2008, only 52% of their fathers had any graduate degree, and 35% of their mothers. That includes ALL graduate degrees, not just MD/DO. And AACOM lists its stats as 34% of DO students as having a physician parent (MD or DO).
AAMC stats: https://www.aamc.org/download/142770/data/ aibvol9_no10.pdf
AACOM stats: http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatric ulants/Documents/2011Matr iculantsummary.pdf
- terra_incognita Said:
Path, where did you read this? That number sounds a bit over the top to me.
From the AAMC website ~ 2010, though I thought it was from the back of the AAMC book around the same time. And I also think that data represents more than ONE application cycle. But when I read it I wasn't surpised at all since other professions, especially law, show a similar trend.
But let's assume your numbers are accurate. That doesn't dismiss the fact that being the kid of an "Dr." boosts your admission chances, all other things being equal, over other applicants. In fact, I've NEVER in 20+ years of observing the process seen the kid of a Dr. not get accepted to med school that wanted a spot.
- pathdr2b Said:
- terra_incognita Said:
Path, where did you read this? That number sounds a bit over the top to me.
From the AAMC website ~ 2010, though I thought it was from the back of the AAMC book around the same time. And I also think that data represents more than ONE application cycle. But when I read it I wasn't surpised at all since other professions, especially law, show a similar trend.
The underlying socioeconomic status and demographics would suggest a hypothesis: those who have higher educational levels tend to have higher incomes and live in areas with average higher incomes which leads to school districts spending more per pupil a higher percentage of which attend college overall and who attend private colleges.
An example from my own experience, the three village school district on Long Island surrounds the SUNY Stony Brook campus. With a large percentage of parents with advanced degree, students from that district have higher college college acceptance rates, an usually high number of Intel (formerly Westinghouse) National Science finalist, and similar statistics.
Additionally, the New York Times yesterday had an article entitled Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor . There is the simple idea of lack of information and advising. Children of doctors and other graduates degree holders have access to knowledge of the process to become a doctor or even the concept of becoming one.
In sum, disparities in acceptance to graduate and professional programs between children whose parents who hold such degrees and those whose parents do not can be be seen by the overall socioeconomic status of the parents, the downstream impacts of such status and the perceived differences knowledge of the process to obtain such degrees
- gonnif Said:
In sum, disparities in acceptance to graduate and professional programs between children whose parents who hold such degrees and those whose parents do not can be be seen by the overall socioeconomic status of the parents, the downstream impacts of such status and the perceived differences knowledge of the process to obtain such degrees
No doubt and my work as a private tutor, attests to the benefits of having parents that can buy you every educational advantage imaginable.
But having a parent or relative that can also call a former classmate or as in the case of a former UF med school student, make the requirement for the MCAT "go away", does just as much if not more IMHO.
Again, no diss because my own kid enjoys the benefits of having highly educated parents. I just wish folks would mention that when talking about getting accepted to med school, because when I talk about my success, most people "hear it" in the context of me being a URM.
And the reality is that there are FAR more "Dr" legacies in med school than URMs.
- gonnif Said:
Additionally, the New York Times yesterday had an article entitled Better Colleges Failing to Lure Talented Poor . There is the simple idea of lack of information and advising.
Trust me, I'm working on this as we speak!
There are excellent points raised in this thread and the article in the NY Times was sobering. While the article doesn’t specifically address enrollments in medical school, evidence shows that individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds don’t pursue medicine at the same rate as those with socioeconomic advantages. There are many reasons; I have done research on this topic and studied at-risk populations in graduate school. I feel so strongly about this issue that I offer pro bono med school admissions consulting to individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds. You can read more on my website, if you’re interested:
http://www.thompsonadvising.com/services/pro-bono#…
We are straying from the poster’s original topic which was bias against allied health professionals in the med school admissions process; it does exist and these applicants must prove themselves and their motivation to become physicians to a greater extent than “regular” applicants.
- lizat Said:
We are straying from the poster's original topic which was bias against allied health professionals in the med school admissions process; it does exist and these applicants must prove themselves and their motivation to become physicians to a greater extent than "regular" applicants.
In some respects the bias is perhaps not as strong as the data would suggest. While the AAMC data on the acceptance rate via majors shows that specialized health majors have the lowest acceptance rates across 7 broad categories (about 36%) if you control for GPA and MCAT, the differences almost disappear. Across every category of major those who were accepted had an average of 3.6 sGPA, 3.7 oGPA and about 30 MCAT.
so we can add networking and professional/educational contacts of parents can greatly influence and enhance the chances of their offspring
- gonnif Said:
While the AAMC data on the acceptance rate via majors shows that specialized health majors have the lowest acceptance rates across 7 broad categories (about 36%) if you control for GPA and MCAT, the differences almost disappear.
My observation of the process indicates that for nontrads, other aspects of the med school application plays an equal role with who gets accepted.
And this is part of why I think there's a bias against Nursing and PA applicants to med school.
As for getting off topic, I guess as you get older, it gets harder to remember what the original topic was, ROTFL!
And I LOVE the fact that the blog police state is pretty non-existent on OPM!
- gonnif Said:
so we can add networking and professional/educational contacts of parents can greatly influence and enhance the chances of their offspring
I realize this may true for some people, but my father is a physician, and I have gotten absolutely NOTHING in terms of networking or contacts from him. So every case is different.
- terra_incognita Said:
I realize this may true for some people, but my father is a physician, and I have gotten absolutely NOTHING in terms of networking or contacts from him. So every case is different.
You're coming into this process as a top notch applicant. Even if you're estranged from your father, from what I've observed, his being a physician will put your app over the top especially if you apply to the school he attended.
In other words, since I started watching this process in 1991, I've NEVER seen a top notch, well rounded child of an MD not eventually get into med school. And I guess I'm kinda waiting on someone to post otherwise.
BTW, there's a HUGE difference between your med school app's "advantages" and those of the dude who got into UF's med school without an MCAT.
- gonnif Said:
so we can add networking and professional/educational contacts of parents can greatly influence and enhance the chances of their offspring
My mother use to work with the mother of a man who's on an adcom.
And HELL YEAH, I intend on appying there if I don't get into med school the next time around!!!! My app is solid and I have absolutely NO shame because like 99.99999% of other nontrads on OPM, I EARNED this 'ish, LOL!!!
I am a Physical Therapist, and I was accepted at Michigan State CHM this year. I understand that the statistics show that allied health professionals have a lower rate of acceptance than Biology majors and Humanity majors but there might be other factors besides bias. My interviewer did ask me about why I had decided to change careers, but I don’t think he was hostile to me due to my being a health professional. I think having great clinical experience in addition to good MCAT score and GPA was a plus.
- sam74 Said:
I am a Physical Therapist, and I was accepted at Michigan State CHM this year.
When I talk about "health professionals" I'm specifically referring to Nurses and PA's, Physician Assistants.
In fact for PA, Pathologist Assistants, another health professional, I've observed a 100% acceptance rate with an admittedly small sample size.
I believe the person asking the original question referred to a wide variety of health related professions, “BSN, PA, NP, EMS, Healthcare administration, Finance, etc…”
- sam74 Said:
I believe the person asking the original question referred to a wide variety of health related professions, "BSN, PA, NP, EMS, Healthcare administration, Finance, etc..."
Yes, I understood the question.
My point was that it doesn't appear that all health professionals are "viewed" the same by adcoms which is why I specifically pointed that out.
AAMC acceptance statistics by undergraduate major
To be some data behind this, of the 1254 applicants in 2012 who self-reported primary undergraduate major was classified as “Specialized Health Sciences”, 414 were accepted.