I just came from a meeting with my advisor. According to her, the university - The University of Minnesota, is changing pre-requisites for pre-meds. The list she gave me no longer requires Ochem.
However, as always there’s a catch - the new requirements include 4 courses in the life sciences, 2 of which have to be at least 3xxx or higher (upper level). The Life Sciences courses could be from biology, genetics, zoology, botany, parasitology, biochemistry, chemistry, or physics.
According to her she had a meeting with the adcom and they were laying more emphasis on well rounded students instead of what she called assembly line applicants that had gone through the sciences but could hardly interact with a patient.
Here are the new requirements -
Biology (with lab) 1 semester
Gen. Chem. (with lab) 1 semester
Life sciences 4 semesters (2 have to be upper level i.e. 3xxx)
Humanities and Social Sciences 1 upper level course with an intensive writing requirement.
Recommended but not required courses - Biochem, Ethics, Genetics, Psychology, Statistics, Foreign Language
So the question I have to y’all is, I still plan on taking O1 next semester in the hopes that it will help prepare me for the MCAT. I will also be taking Genetics.
Should I still plan on taking O2 in the summer before sitting for my MCATS in August or do you guys recommend another course that will help me in the process? I’ve already dropped plans to take the OChem lab which is a course of its own here.
Dazed -
I would plan on taking ochem 2 AND the lab. It doesn’t really matter what your university is recommending - it’s all about what the med schools REQUIRE as pre-requisites. With very few exceptions, nearly every med school lists a year of ochem with labs as a pre-requisite. Also - many schools are now requiring biochemistry. Where I took my pre-reqs, the entire ochem series was a required pre-req for biochem. By not taking the full ochem series, you would be limiting yourself in terms of the number of schools you can apply to. I think it is very unlikely that any huge number of schools will drop the ochem requirement in the near future.
Also - with the life sciences - I would do as many human based bio classes as possible. Botany and zoology classes will not be nearly as useful to you as anatomy, physiology, microbiology, cell bio, etc.
To follow up, I checked the websites of some MN medical schools. I’m afraid your pre-med advisor is doing a huge disservice to pre-med students if she is telling them that they don’t need to take ochem in order to get into medical school.
UM-Twin Cities:
Required Courses:
Biology
Biology (with lab)
Biological sciences coursework with emphasis on general principles, cell biology and/or physiology.
2 semesters or 2 quarters
Chemistry
General or Inorganic Chemistry (with lab)
2 semesters or 2 quarters
Organic Chemistry (with lab)
2 semesters or 2 quarters
Biochemistry
1 semester or 1 quarter
Physics
Physics (with lab)
Requiring at least college algebra and trigonometry.
2 semesters or 3 quarters
Mathematics
Calculus
1 semester or quarter
English Composition and Literature
English Composition and Literature
2 semesters or 3 quarters
Social and Behavioral Sciences and Humanities
Social & Behavioral Sciences, Humanities
One course in psychology, remaining coursework in at least two of the following areas – history, sociology, anthropology, philosophy, comparative studies, music or art.
4 semesters or 6 quarters
Coursework in genetics and statistics is strongly recommended.
UM-Duluth:
Biology
Two quarters or two semesters (with labs)
General Chemistry
Two quarters or two semesters (with labs)
Organic Chemistry
Two quarters or two semesters (with labs)
Biochemistry
One quarter or one semester (no lab required)
Mathematics
One quarter or one semester of calculus or upper level statistics
Physics
Three quarters or two semesters (with labs)
English Composition
Three quarters or two semesters, or a combination or courses that contain a considerable writing and/or creative writing component
Behavioral Sciences
Three quarters or two semesters:
- At least one Psychology course is required (beginning with the entering class of 2008).
- Developmental Psychology and/or Abnormal Psychology are strongly recommended.
- This category includes courses in Psychology, Sociology, or Anthropology.
At least one course must be upper division level, i.e., courses normally taken by juniors or seniors and not introductory in nature.
Humanities/Social Sciences
Three quarters or two semesters: at least one course must be upper division level, i.e., courses normally taken by juniors or seniors and not introductory in nature.
This category may include courses in a variety of fields including but not limited to: American Studies, Art, Communications, Economics, Geography, Government, History, Languages, Literature, Music, Philosophy, Political Science, Religion, Speech, Theatre
Mayo:
The following courses are required prior to admission:
- One year of biology and/or zoology (with lab)
- One year of inorganic chemistry (with lab)
- One year of organic chemistry (with lab)
- One year of physics (with lab)
- One course in biochemistry
Of course, it could be the school sent local pre-med advisors a heads-up for a future year and the Web site does not yet reflect the change. Still, it’s true that most people will apply to more than one med school. If you’re committed to staying in town, you could take the MCAT with OCHEM 1 and a good prep course. There’s very little, if any, ochem 2 on the MCAT as far as I can tell. Nothing approaching the depth you’ll see in the course. But it’s a stretch, and I’d only do this if there is some compelling reason you can only apply to the one school.
That’s interesting. How can you get through biochemistry in medical school without a solid background in organic chemistry? Biochemistry is part of the boards and you have to study it.
Furthermore, organic chemistry fosters a certain way of thinking that is useful when understanding biological pathways. I find myself constantly going back to my orgo. It’s pretty fundamental. I like to see people study history and philosophy and foreign languages, sure, but you still need that scientific core knowledge.
Emergency,
Thanks for the detailed replys and looking into this. And yes, as samenewme said in the post below, the advisor had just had a meeting with the adcom and they were changing the pre-reqs for the 09 cycle if I remember correctly.
- samenewme Said:
As for my plans, after the great advice I received here, I think I am going to go ahead with the OChem sequence with lab. I may even try to squeeze in Biochem over the summer although I don't know how difficult it is and how intense it would be over the summer especially if I am already planning on taking O2 over the summer. Biochem at the U of MN only requires O1 as a prereq.
- Dazed Said:
I still think it's dangerous for your pre-med advisor to imply to people that they no longer need to take ochem. Even though, UM may be dropping it as a pre-req for 2009, I find it highly unlikely that the rest of the med schools in this country will drop it as a pre-req and that they drop the ochem questions from the MCAT by then.
Also, as long as med schools are going to continue to require biochemistry (which is actually relatively new in being required as a pre-req at many schools), people are going to have to take at least one term of ochem.
- Quote:
I wouldn't do it. You REALLY want a good foundation in biochem for med school, and I think you will want to be able to devote the time to it. Also, if you are still planning on taking the MCAT in the fall, I think it definitely may be a bit much to do ochem, biochem and MCAT prep over the summer. You don't actually have to have taken all of the pre-reqs prior to applying (although you should have taken most) - you just need to indicate that you are taking them while applying and have completed them prior to starting med school. I hadn't taken the last quarter of physics or biochem when I applied (although biochem was a recommendation and not a requirement at that point).
Seriously, of all the courses I wish I had worked harder in prior to med school, it's biochem. It's everywhere and never goes away. A better biochem foundation would have made my life a little easier.
- Emergency! Said:
I still think it's dangerous for your pre-med advisor to imply to people that they no longer need to take ochem. Even...
Emergency,
OPM would just not be OPM without you!
Thanks a bunch for the insights. I will be changing my plans and posting on this thread shortly!Thanks again!
BOY, I hate to be the one to throw the cold water on this one…
It might be true… but news like this would have sailed around my circle by now. MY impression is this must be some kind of mistake or misunderstanding. I have not heard even a whisper that the requirement for a year of O chem with labs is not the law of the land?
U of Min may not require it but every medical school in the counrty does, AMCAS does…
AMCAS had not mentioned a word about dropping it? The MCAT is full of it… you need it for Biochem… a good part of ones first year of medical school… Does U min have a Med school? I bet if you phone down the road to Rochester… the Mayo clinic will be amazed, I am sure they require it…
That would represent an earth shattering attempt at hoop by-passing… I don’t believe it, must be a mistake! (Considering the effort and sacrifice I made to do well in O chem… I WOULD consider TOTING a PROTEST SIGN ON THIS ONE!) There is NO way anyone would remove such a portion of the “added value” to the profession…
I would wanna see it in writing by one of the national standards groups before I consider changing my prep…
Well rounded… interesting… SURE you can be a philosophy major or anything you want… but you ain’t going to medical school without 1 year of: Gen chem with lab, Physics with lab, O Chem with lab, Biology with lab…
Besides how does taking easier biology classes make you better with patients? I hope we have not gone the way of the so-called “social sciences”.
Richard 