pathdr2b - practicing "with supervision" doesn't mean with supervision responsibilities, as your post seemed to imply, but with being supervised by a physician.
No problem, we can feel free to debate and agree to disagree around here!
So to clarify, it's not outside my realm of reality to imagine that DNP's WILL oversee/supervise/instruc t/Boss around, PA's because they have the "Dr" title, especially in non emergent cases.
And I think the importance of saving money over providing quality healthcare will be the reason why.
Yeah but all PA's have to do is use the nursing lobby's biggest argument against them...they cannot supervise PA's because PA's practice medicine NOT nursing. So if a DNP can supervise a PA then they have to admit that "advanced nursing" is in fact medicine which means....a PA can then supervise BSN's... I don't think this is a can of worms they care to open, however with how poor the physician lobbying group is the nurses just might....and get away with it. I don't put it past them and I wouldn't be surprised if this is occurring at the hospital level.
however with how poor the physician lobbying group is the nurses just might....and get away with it. I don't put it past them and I wouldn't be surprised if this is occurring at the hospital level.
I'm thinking the insurance companies ARE in bed with the nursing lobby, so.........
Being a 5 year nurse I have decided to tell NO ONE about my new journey to getting into med school. In fact most people think I’m going to school to be an NP. When they ask how school is going I just say “great!” And change the subject.
My plan is to sit for the MCAT no later then July 2021 and hopefully gain entrance somewhere for the 2022 start year. Once I gain acceptance I’ll tell people what I’m doing, ha! Even then I might keep it on the DL to avoid the noise.
I’ve heard many say medical school is a waste of $, I heard many say it’s not worth it. But coming from being a Nurse I can say a lot of the same about the nursing profession too. I think the plus side of doing med school at this point in my life (30s) is
I have a source of income where I can work 1 day a month or full time when I need (Nursing) AND a husband who is bringing in income as well
My kids are growing up and I don’t have a baby at home or the thought of future babies. House is bought, cars are bought, none of that stuff needs to happen right out of med school.
There is a lot of negative I know I will get and weird looks if I were to tell everyone what my plan was, So I’m just keeping quiet - which is usually not how I handle things haha. The only person who knows is my amazon account (where I ordered some MCAT Prep books from to start reviewing my bio and psych) and my husband.
Good luck to you and hopefully we can beat the negative Nancies together!!
@kennymac I looked into PA schools 6-7 yrs ago and the reasons you mentioned are exactly why I want to go to med school. Many of the types of patient care experiences required additional training, which didn’t seem logical financially since I don’t have a science degree and had to take a lot of the pre-reqs
I live in CA and my psych DNP said that she can practice independently the same way an MD/DO psychiatrist can. She’s in a group practice but isn’t supervised by a psychiatrist the way a PA would be
As a non-traditional premed, I’ve been asked by people over the years why not a NP or PA, but not people who are regularly in my life. People who are regularly in my life see how hard I work in my post-bacc program to reach my goal of medical school. I very briefly considered PA but many of the jobs that counted as “health care experience” required additional training (phlebotomist, EMT, etc). Not only do I have to take science classes without a science degree, but I don’t think it’s worth pursuing certification for a career that’s not my long term goal. I think the reasons some might have encouraged me to go the NP/PA route are less time and money in school, more work-life balance, and knowing people who were in med school and wished they could have gone the NP/PA route because it was less work than being a doctor.
While I don’t think these are valid factors to determine whether someone is qualified for a certain career, I wonder if people accept my decision to become a doctor because I am single and do not want children.
What really annoys me is when people assume that I’m OK being a NP/PA if I don’t get into medical school. An alternative career to med school should be one I genuinely would enjoy, not what society considers the default. For those who ask what would I do if I don’t get into med school, the answer is audiology.
Bottom line is that if you want to be a doctor, be a doctor! If you want to be a NP or PA, be a NP or PA! Decide for yourself what profession you’d like to pursue rather than what society or others think you should pursue.
I get this all the time as a 33 year old (even looking at this thread people think 33 is advanced in age thanks!). I don’t think it’s ever bummed me out. It’s a completely valid question. It’s also one you’re likely going to be asked by a med school. If ALL someone wants to do is take care of patients, it may be a better route to go. Most patients these days see NPs and PAs way more than they do physicians, and while it’s nice to say I want to be a “leader” or “autonomous” that’s not the reality for a physician either.
In fact you can become more autonomous as an NP, practice primary care or specialize, years before you could become remotely autonomous as a physician (see all the doctors who no longer practice but make money off of pre-med students using their MD as a brand). NPs are also welcomed authors in research and clinical trials. PA, not so much. I wouldn’t go that route till they figure out what to do with PAs between MDs and NPs.
In my opinion it’s important to have an answer to this question, and understand in-depth what each of these roles do in medicine and healthcare.
Also to clarify, practicing “with supervision” doesn’t mean a doctor stands over you and babies you. That is an insane waste of time. It just means a physician has to sign off on charts and orders before they go to billing or get filled. What this means as a physician is more paperwork and chart review and less patient time. This is currently a huge source of physician burn out, so if you want tons of patient time, maybe MD really isn’t for you. Physicians spend less than 30% of their time with patients.
