Hey all, hope everyone’s doing well. I just finished up final exams so I haven’t been checking in for a few weeks.
I wanted to get some input about my short-term future as I’m approaching a decision point. I’m almost halfway through my MS and so far it’s going great- 3.81 GPA, should be a 3.84 at the end of Spring. What I’m trying to decide now is what I should do next.
As I’ve said before, my biggest challenge is to prove that the 2.72 of my undergrad days in as aberration and squarely in the past, while finishing up some prerequisites. First, if I could ask, what’s the deal with coursework being out of date? The scuttlebutt I’ve heard is that adcoms will consider the material in a prerequisite course obsolete if it was taken more than 5-7 years ago. Is this true, or am I mistaken in taking advice I heard from someone who heard from someone ad infinitum? With the exception of Organic Chem II + Lab, my prerequisites are done. A lot of them are B- grades and they were all 5-10 years ago, but they’re done.
So to prove that I’ve grown up and improved since my poor showing as an undergraduate, would my best course of action be to repeat those courses and get A grades in them? Or would a PhD effectively express the same message? Personally, I’d be far happier getting a PhD than I would repeating undergraduate coursework. I’d still need to get myself another semester of organic 2, but I’m pretty certain I could find the time to do so in the midst of a 4-5 year PhD program. The PhD also gives me a fallback I’m very happy with if I can’t get into med school- more undergrad courses, not so much.
[Or for that matter, if there are other options I haven’t considered.]
It’s getting to the point where I need to start exploring PhD options if that’s the route I’m going, so I’m trying to get an idea if that’s my best course of action or not.
Some others hopefully will weigh in here, Fedaykin. I’d think a PhD would be overkill in terms of time and money. I’d think retaking biology (which really does change fast) and perhaps Organic I before Organic II, and doing well in those, would be fine. If you remember or can review Organic I thoroughly, perhaps that is not necessary. Check with some of the schools you are interested in as to whether your general chemistry and physics will be accepted, and don’t redo it if you don’t need to.
If they want the basics retaken, getting a PhD will not accomplish that. It also raises a question as to why you went to more grad school rether than medical school (and makes your prerequisistes that much more out of date).
You might check out the topics from each core prerequisite that are covered on the MCAT and see if you feel a review will “get you there” in terms of MCAT preparation.
Kate
- Kate429 Said:
If they want the basics retaken, getting a PhD will not accomplish that. It also raises a question as to why you went to more grad school rether than medical school (and makes your prerequisistes that much more out of date).
You might check out the topics from each core prerequisite that are covered on the MCAT and see if you feel a review will "get you there" in terms of MCAT preparation.
Kate
I will have to concur with the future good doctor kate429 on this. While I do not know what you have an MS in, if it is not a formal SMP or other Masters designed as a postbacc, even if hard science, it is unlikely that a PhD will be a great asset in terms of time, money, resources, for the following:
1) Your preqs are stale. The loose policies to some hard rules on these are hard to pin down, but unless you did extremely well in the prereqs and have continued in advanced sciences to show a continued pattern of achievement, it will reduce your competitiveness.
2) Bio, as Kate has pointed out, has changed drastically, especially molecular genetics, immunology, biochemistry, etc. retaking the general bio course and advanced courses will be useful, especially for MCAT as most younger students still are Bio majors who tend to do well on that section.
3) Chem and physics, while not changed, still require lots of skills and knowledge that will bit you on the ass on the MCAT if you are rusty. (and if a deep puncture occurs on a rusty surface you can risk infection by Clostridium tetani (C. tetani....oh never mind)
4) A PhD may backfire as well for commitment concerns. Adcoms seek individuals who show strong commitment, motivation, and achievement. If you start a PhD and do not finish it or jump right from that to medical school, it can raise questions in the adcoms consideration of your application.
- Kate429 Said:
If they want the basics retaken, getting a PhD will not accomplish that. It also raises a question as to why you went to more grad school rether than medical school (and makes your prerequisistes that much more out of date).
You might check out the topics from each core prerequisite that are covered on the MCAT and see if you feel a review will "get you there" in terms of MCAT preparation.
Kate
I'm not sure that getting a PhD would show commitment concerns, as I intend to be upfront that my goal is to be a research active physician- doing and publishing hard science is an important part of what I want to do. For practical purposes, there's nothing difficult about doing medical school after a PhD. It would difficult if not impossible to do a PhD after medical school.
And actually, the money works better for me if I get a PhD. I'll finish my program with $100k of total student debt. I haven't yet looked at a PhD program that would charge me a penny, so I'm not considering programs that would add to my debt. Moreover, my fiancee is applying to medical school shortly (should finish Spring 2017), and the finances work out much better if we avoid overlapping our medical educations as much as possible.
What's the deal with SMPs? I'd considered them, but I was under the impression I might as well be throwing away application fees if I apply without my prerequisites completed.
- Fedaykin Said:
And actually, the money works better for me if I get a PhD. I'll finish my program with $100k of total student debt. I haven't yet looked at a PhD program that would charge me a penny, so I'm not considering programs that would add to my debt.
I'll have to disagree with the first part of your comment for too many reasons to get into here. Suffice it to say that IMHO, the "difficulty" in getting a PhD before or after med school is dependent on many, many variables.
However, if money is what you're concerned about and you're serious about being a physician who does research, why not apply MD/PhD?
I'm also a STRONG believer in post commitment (marriage) "plans" versus PRE commitment (engagement) "plans" .
I actually thought about MD/PhD, but multiple SMP programs I applied to in the past told me clearly that any student in need of post-baccalaureate improvement to their credentials isn’t going to be a competitive applicant. I know that TJU last year accepted 5 such applicants out of nearly 200.
The comment about money isn’t so much that I’m worried about such as it was a response to Kate’s concern that a PhD program would amount to an expensive venture. In actuality, I’m not accumulating any debt in the process (beyond interest on loans I’ve already taken), and I’d actually be pushing the expensive part of my education to a financially easier part of my life. My only real financial concern is one of risk. The thought of throwing a bunch of money at a PB/SMP to upgrade the odds of getting into an allopathic program from abysmal to weak does rob me of a considerable amount of sleep.
Timing is more of an issue- after med school I’m imagining (at the absolute least) 5+ years for internship/residency/fell owship, and with a mountain of debt I’m eager to start paying off.
The other concern is one of networking. I have some connections to a few of the best cancer research programs in the country through professors whose labs I’m working in. If I’m going to do a PhD, and I’d really love to, I’m apprehensive to not take advantage of those contacts now while I have them.
Thanks for all the advice! I worry that I come off as ungrateful, and if I do, nothing’s further from the truth. I tend to just worry having so many different options that I don’t know what the best one to choose is. All the help is much appreciated!
- pathdr2b Said:
I apologize, but I'm not entirely sure of the point I should be taking out of this. For more background, I'm engaged and the date is set (tentatively) for Summer 2013- possibly 2012 if we find that both our academic training is taking us away from our part of the country. But if you want to get to brass tacks, all of our plans are "post commitment."
- Fedaykin Said:
If your connections with research faculty at MD/PhD granting institutions are as good as you say they are, then what the SMP's are telling you doesn't have to necessarily be true. What I do know is that if you really want the MD/PhD then I'd apply broadly and see what happens.
- Fedaykin Said:
I should apologize if I offended you.
But I'm "old school" and would never make career plans around a person I wasn't married to. Not only that, women tend to get the short end of the stick when things don't work out.
But today is a new day. Still, I LOVE the lyrics of one of Beyonce's songs "If you like it, then you shoulda put a ring on it".
And note she doesn't say put a ring on it in 2 or 3 years because anything can happen and often does, LOL!!
- pathdr2b Said:
- Fedaykin Said:
If your connections with research faculty at MD/PhD granting institutions are as good as you say they are, then what the SMP's are telling you doesn't have to necessarily be true. What I do know is that if you really want the MD/PhD then I'd apply broadly and see what happens.
In general, yes, but the the ins I'm eyeing for PhD programs are at Georgetown and Hopkins (which should also imply why I'm reticent to abandon a foot in the door). I'd give my left arm to get into either med program, but I doubt an undergrad GPA of 2.72 would be seriously considered without pulling the Dean from a car wreck.