Hello All. I’m very pleased I’ve found this forum. The discussions I have seen thus far are wonderful. So thank you for that.
Quick intro: I’m Ashley. Since I was five, I can remember than I have always wanted to be a doctor. I have always had the spirit to help people and was always intrigued by the human body. I continually try to diagnose my own issues before I get to a doctor’s appointment when I am sick or hurt. And here I am, contemplating becoming a doctor again.
Schooling…I went out of state (from California to Washington) for undergrad. At that point, I didn’t realize how cut throat people would be, especially being at one of the top research universities in the country. Needless to say I didn’t last very long in the prereq’s due to personal health issues to “believe in yourself issues,” and of course, “Is this what I really want to do or what my parents want me to do” thinking. So, I stopped making excuses for why I wasn’t performing well, halted taking anymore prereq’s and focused my time on personal growth/leadership opportunities, all while trying to get my horrible GPA out of the gutter.
End the end, I finished with a 2.91 overall with a BA in Business Psychology and Management (blend major between business and psych departments) and a rather extensive thesis (I’m still proud of that one). I had completed the inorganic chem series, one qtr calc, one qtr stats, one qtr bio, and one qtr organic. If I have calculated it correctly, I believe the sciences are a 2.45 GPA. My high stats counterbalance the calc at a 2.8.
I have been out of undergrad for just about three years, worked in the financial world (having passed the Series 7 and 66 - tough investment tests!) and now the aerospace engineering world. But, something is missing and the move from financial to engineering was solely because I was bored. I lack motivation due to a huge lack of intellectual stimulation. For the last several months, I have thought long and hard as to why I am still attracted to the medical industry. I am ready to make the leap.
I sought out an advisor at the local CC, who said I would be able to take all my prereq’s at the CC instead of the CSU because I have already obtained a BA from a great school. I have a tentative schedule to tackle my prereq’s (BCP and upper B/not planning on any calc/math), have appointments with a few doctors (MD and DO) to talk about options and possible shadowing, as well an appointment with Kaiser for their volunteer program. Looking at doing the general prereq’s at the CC, upper B at CSU. I figure I can tackle all of this and still work approximately 30 hrs a week and apply for admittance into Fall 2010. I have looked at the local post-bacc programs, but I do not meet their requirements.
I WILL obtain a strong GPA in all my prereq’s; I know what it will take to get to where I want to be, I know I can do this.
BUT, my reservation is solely in the fact that if I do all this hard work and get a pretty solid BCP (any suggestions to take M again?) that I will not be considered due to my undergrad GPA. By the time of my application, I will be 27 years old.
Any thoughts to settle my sole reservation of moving forward with this? Or any thoughts on my situation?
welcome Ashley. I respectfully disagree with the CC advisor stating that it’s ok to take (or in some cases retake) prereqs at CC.
Although most schools don’t directly state that they will outright reject CC courses, they strongly recommend these are taken at a 4 yr univ/college. However, some people have taken a few intro courses ie. gchem I / bio I etc but finished the bulk of their coursework at a 4year, and that seems to be fine.
It sounds like you have a good plan put together, identified what needs to be done, what your weaknesses are and how to address them. If you work hard and show a positive performance on your prereqs (and ultimately the MCAT) compared to before, then you will be in good shape provided you can explain poor UG performance (and it sounds like you can).
I was in a similar situation. I started taking my prereqs at the age of 27 after working in consulting. I was surprised to find out that some start MUCH older lol.
27? You’ll be 27!? Good gracious girl what are you thinking? 
You could go about doing nothing for another 6 years before you start your pre-reqs and still be younger than me.
Oh to be young again!
- ipitydafoo Said:
Although most schools don't directly state that they will outright reject CC courses, they strongly recommend these are taken at a 4 yr univ/college. However, some people have taken a few intro courses ie. gchem I / bio I etc but finished the bulk of their coursework at a 4year, and that seems to be fine.
ipitydafoo - Thanks for your thoughts, I have about 60 credits I'd like to take, with 40 of them being the intro BCP, and possibly the OChem at the CC, then 20 of upper B and Biochem at the 4 year CSU. If I do this route, it will save a ton of money ($20/unit vs $140/unit). I am beginning to wonder if certain CC's carry more weight in regards to reputation/credibility. This particular CC is well known in the area, and from what I hear, the intro courses are tougher than at the local CSU.
I am also hoping that since I have a lot of behavioral science from my BA at a 4 year, that this would support my "package."
Does anyone have experience doing this route of CC courses for intro and upper at a 4 year? And the success rate of entrance into med school?
- anbvian Said:
- ipitydafoo Said:
Although most schools don't directly state that they will outright reject CC courses, they strongly recommend these are taken at a 4 yr univ/college. However, some people have taken a few intro courses ie. gchem I / bio I etc but finished the bulk of their coursework at a 4year, and that seems to be fine.
ipitydafoo - Thanks for your thoughts, I have about 60 credits I'd like to take, with 40 of them being the intro BCP, and possibly the OChem at the CC, then 20 of upper B and Biochem at the 4 year CSU. If I do this route, it will save a ton of money ($20/unit vs $140/unit). I am beginning to wonder if certain CC's carry more weight in regards to reputation/credibility. This particular CC is well known in the area, and from what I hear, the intro courses are tougher than at the local CSU.
I am also hoping that since I have a lot of behavioral science from my BA at a 4 year, that this would support my "package."
Does anyone have experience doing this route of CC courses for intro and upper at a 4 year? And the success rate of entrance into med school?
Typically, from what I read, reputation of CCs matters very little...seems as if they still prefer to see the course taken at a four year as opposed to a CC, even if the CC is great and the four year sucks.
I also have read that organic chemistry is one of the pre-reqs they really want to see you have completed at a four year. I would strongly recommend for you to do as many of your pre-reqs at a CSU (or even a UC if one's near you) as possible...you may want to talk to an advisor at a university about possibly doing a post-bacc of some sort to get some A's in and show an upward trend, but otherwise, wouldn't be the first time I've heard of someone with poor grades fixing their past via post-bacc, master's program, etc. and then applying and getting accepted. Good luck!
Note: Edited to add...didn't notice that you plan to do a lot of upper division science classes at the CSU...that plan sounds fine, I wouldn't worry about it too much then, although yeah try to limit the science classes you take at the CC.
E gads… 27… I got a daughter not too far from that… You have plenty of time! Indeed, some distance between ones “old life” (with the mistakes of “youth”) and the “new pre-medicine life” (the stuff you want an admissions comittee to consider) is probably an advantage!
Richard
(45 year old, married 24 years, father of SIX… AND 4th year medical student (KU SOM 2008)
Ashley,
Check out “Richards rules”… pay particular attention to the “general discussion of the hoops”
Good luck!
Richard
- Richard B Said:
Richard
(45 year old, married 24 years, father of SIX... AND 4th year medical student (KU SOM 2008)
I bet you of all people never sleep!
Slumber is a special thing… worthy of the proper worship! Indeed… I schedule sleep to fit all of this…
I take my vitamins and press on!
Yours (as always),
Richard
Ashley,
Sorry for the “funny” at your expense… In all seriousness, only you can answer your original question! PLease check out my “rules” and pay close attention to “rule 1”, if you have answered all that stuff in the affirmative… then GO FOR IT!
You will be a success… if not wait a bit and see how it goes…
Yours,
Richard
I agree with everyone else here. If you can avoid it, do not take your pre-reqs at a community college. I know of a few fine community colleges but doesn’t mean medical schools will agree with me or you on that fact.
I would also suggest what you are doing and planning to take some upper level biology courses just to demonstrate that you can do well with that type of course work. And yeah, do it at a four year school.
I will tell you what I am doing, and bear in mind that many others on this forum have told me not to and advised against it, but I am taking most of my pre-reqs at a community college (Gen Chem I, II, Bio I, II, Organic I, II, Physics I, II) and i’m making Straight A’s!!! learning a ton, getting in great with the professors, yes I said PROFS… you go to these fancy 4 yrs. and they have a grad asst. teach you, I have PHD’s teaching me for a fraction of the cost… and yes smaller classes, more attention, do you think these 4 yr teachers are even going to know your name??? heck no. they don’t even care if you have good attendance. go where you can go- community college or 4 yr. heck here, when ou work all day like I do, they don’t offer night courses as freely as the comm. colleges. so that’s my plan and i’m stickin to it.
miller,
I don’t think anyone (or at least myself) question the quality of the education at a community college but the question is will admission committees question it? I think thats something you need to keep in mind too. Maybe contacting some of the schools you plan on applying to might give you better insight and also the rest of us if you report back with their responses.
So, I guess I’ll throw my two cents in as well. Based off of the research that I’ve done, and the extensive amount of pre-meds, med students AND doctors I’ve talked to all have the same general consensus: take your prereqs at a 4 year. I was even told by the admissions dept of the medical school I’ve got my eyes on that they’d prefer to see a 4 yr.
The relevancy of getting in with professors and being taught directly by PhDs is completely moot in the face of an admissions committee at a medical school that won’t accept said classes.
No one is disputing the quality of education you’re getting from a CC, but if the adcoms don’t want it, then you gotta’ play the game and do it their way.
Do it anyway you want to, because in the end, you will be the one to answer for your decisions.
Thank you to everyone for your greatly appreciated advice.
In moving forward on my quest, I’ll take two semesters at the CC to see how it feels and get back in the mode, transfer to a 4 year state school and/or my alma mater to take the remaining prereq’s and pad my package with more upper division bio classes. Either way, it will be a great financial and personal investment.
Again thank you everyone for your thoughts and two cents. I’m taking it and running with it!
I’ve said it here before and will say it again: My advisor agrees with what others have said here. A chat with the admissions guru at our state med school echoes the same thought: Do not take classes at a CC.
Well, let me re-phrase that. The advisor said not to do it if you can help it. The med school doc essentially said “no way in hell.”
As Richard has frequently stated: It’s their game and their set of hoops we have to jump through.
J.Miller -
I am happy that you are doing well at the CC and feel like you are learning a lot. For some people, CCs are the only option for a variety of reasons. As long as you make sure you get stellar LOR’s out of those profs and rock the MCAT (the great equalizer), you will improve any negative view the adcoms might have of your taking all your pre-reqs at a CC.
hey there hakado,
Be aware that there are lots of different folks out there throwing opinions around. Some of 'em are more well-informed than others. You are right that it is almost always going to be better to get your credits at a 4-year school; however, this is going to be something that many people will need to finesse in various ways.
For example, in California it’s well-established that folks do initial coursework at a CC and then transfer into the university system. Here in Northern Virginia, however, I would very strongly urge someone to bypass our CC to attend classes at the local public university (George Mason) because they’re equally accessible and the 4-year school is definitely a better bet.
People who already have a bachelor’s degree, especially in a scientific discipline of some sort, are also going to get some allowances made for CC credits.
So, as with most everything else non-trad, there is no one right way to do things. If you’re located where the only available courses are CC’s (or local 4-years don’t do ANY classes except during traditional hours, which, whoops, are the same as work hours for most folks), well, you make the best of it. It may influence where you apply. It may influence how some AdComs see you - as long as you know this going in, you do your best.
And I completely agree with you - I’ve been saying this for YEARS on this board - it’s their game, their ball, their rules.
Mary
Hello,
I’m new here–first post. I have a PhD in anthropology and have taught at all sorts of places–from CC to 4 year institutions. I agree that one can get a fabulous education at a CC. With the hiring market the way it is today, top notch PhDs can be found everywhere. I do understand, though, that one must play the game to the extent possible if you want to lessen the hurdles of med school applications.
Having said that, I am curious as to the assertion that many classes at 4 year schools are taught by TAs or grad assistants. In all my years of schooling (and I have had MANY–from Ivy League on down) I have never been taught by a TA. Had sections with a TA, but never had a lecture course with one. Have things changed?
I am taking my prereqs at a 4 year school. Large classes but one can get to know the profs fairly easily if you go to office hours and make yourself known.
Anyway, great to have found this website.
Sigrid (archaeologist turned premed student)
Mary, you’re correct and I should have been a bit more clear in my earlier statement.
What I wrote reflects my experience with schools in Nevada (undergrad and med school). When push comes to shove in regard to schedule, I agree that a CC is a much more student-friendly institution than the ivory-towered mentality of many universities.
Again, I think the bottom line here is perception, not reality. The perception of most med schools that CC courses are somehow inferior to four-year institution courses. Poppycock in most cases, but it’s the reality in which we seem to live.
I was advised to apply to 8-10 med schools when I get to that stage of the game. At this point, I don’t know what their individual take on CC classes is, but I’m trying to take the universally “safe” approach with all of my classes coming from a four-year university or state college…even though the chem II class I just dropped was from a CC! Again, it was a matter of scheduling around my work hours.