I have been an inactive member of OPM for many years. I have always wanted to go to med school, but never had the opportunity due to raising kids, and the financial obligations that go along with that. Now that the girls are raised, married and out on their own, I am starting to reevaluate this.
You will see a brief summary of my background in my profile. I am 44 in a couple weeks and have my new MCAT books and getting ready to study. Most will likely think I am crazy, but being a CEO is and never was something I wanted to do. I have always, since the age of 8 wanted to be a cardio thoracic surgeon. I am sure the answer to this is going to be no, but is it too late? This is highly competitive in residency applications.
My school of choice would be UA here in Tucson, and that includes residency. Does anyone know how they are with older premeds? I have seen per their website that the first thing they look at are undergrad grades. I cannot imagine that is true for someone like me with PhD and multiple publications and reputation in industry.
Are there any thoughts or advice on all of this?
Thanks in advance to all!
Welcome!
ALL medical schools require the pre-reqs to be taken.
Bar none.
Taking the MCAT without taking the pre-reqs puts you at a very significant disadvantage as the MCAT is not memorize/plug/chug but knowing the material and then incorporating that into cross-functional answers. Especially with the new MCAT (it changed significantly this year from prior years).
Depending on your PhD and publications, that may or may not, be of interest.
For instance, PhD in biochemical neuroanatomy would be of interest as well as publications in that area; however, PhD in business systems (SQL, .net, .asp, etc) and publications in Fortune, CFO, CIO … well, not so much.
Does that show leadership, capabilities to thrive, and succeed?
Absolutely! The question will be, however, how does that translate to being a physician? How will that translate into being in school with students decades younger than you? Being taught by a physician younger than you?
Given you were CEO (don’t know size of company), EVERY CEO I’ve worked with (companies larger than $500M, publicly held, PE or private) have had egos the size of Alaska. They don’t like being told no, they don’t like being told to do something the way it has to be for everyone else, they don’t like to be told they are wrong.
I was the VP, reporting to BoD of a $2B publicly held company… I get it…
Are you too old for medical school?
No.
Are you too old for cardio thoracic surgery?
Perhaps. The goal is to get into medical school, then find if that field is still of interest during clerkships, and then obtain the residency and fellowships required.
As an aside, taking the MCAT and doing poorly or average is not going to help you further down the road. I have been told take it once, be the best prepared you can be, and get the greatest score I can. A second score does not help your cause.
I think, to me, you need to start at Step 1 (pre-reqs) and then take the MCAT, and then apply… like everyone else.
From your bio, it sounds like you have a strong foundation in the basic sciences. I was going to say it’d be good to show strong academic recency, but your PhD and work probably trumps that. How were your grades throughout your education, more specifically your more recent stuff.
Undergrad grades are specifically looked at because they are one of the standard metrics that all applicants will have. If your undergrad wasn’t stellar, it may be looked past due to your history. The only fear is not meeting whatever screening numbers the schools you apply to may or may not have. Even still, I think a lot of schools at least have one human look before throwing the app away.
If you have the time and money, I’d recommend a commercial prep course to aid your studying. The MCAT is a beast and unlike any other test I’ve taken academically or professionally. I tried self study using the prep books but found the class (I did Kaplan On-Demand) to be a better motivator with additional, useful resources.
Being an older applicant brings fiscal and social concerns that younger applicants don’t really think about. Whether UA likes older applicants or not, I don’t know. They didn’t like me, but I’m out of state and have nothing even close to your creds. Keep in mind that the specialty you want will require roughly 7 years of residency/fellowship after your 4 years of med school.
Before you take the leap, you may want to shadow physicians to make sure this is still what you want. Schools look at shadowing differently than standard clinical volunteer-type opportunities or other biomed work. It’s about knowing what you’re getting into before you put your life on its head.
First of all, welcome to OPM! Posting, rather.
I have a few comments of my own. As previous posters said, undergraduate grades are indeed looked at because they are a common denominator. So I guess the first question to ask is whether you have all of them (it sounds like you do). The second question is whether schools will accept them. Some places put a time limit on how old courses can be, but then will give an exception if you have done additional coursework and/or professional work in that area. So that may take care of that issue, though it’s worth looking into anyway to be safe. About the MCAT – it’s a beast of an exam. A formal (and paid) study course, like those by Kaplan or The Princeton Review, might be helpful, but that depends on your study habits and methods. I found it better to study on my own, but it literally became my full-time job for three months (or close to it). It’s about content, sure. But perhaps just as important, or maybe moreso, than the content is test strategy. That’s something you can either read up on, or learn in a formal course. Like how to approach questions, timing, etc.
As for residency – cardiothoracic surgery is first of all a very long residency, and also very competitive. It’s unwise to go into medical school if that’s the only thing you would be happy doing. It’s best to go in with an open mind, and see how things go. You may actually find that something else suits you better – or maybe surgery will be your thing. But you really won’t know until you spend some time in your clinicals, your third and fourth years.
In terms of what to do at the moment, I’d do some investigating about specific requirements and whether you need to take any classes, decide on your MCAT strategy, shadow (as kennymac said), and do some medically-related volunteer work if you aren’t already. Medical schools want to know that you’ve gotten a taste of the medical field and aren’t naive about what being a doctor entails.
Best wishes to you!
Thanks to all for the advice and comments! A bit more here.
My BS is in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. PhD in Cell and Molecular Biology. I meet all prereqs, so none of that is required. Publications are all in the field, cardiac stem cells, hypertrophy, and cardiac remodeling, with the last 4 these past 2 years in dermatology due to what my current company does. Undergrad GPA 3.6, grad school GPA 3.8. Post-doc was in a world renowned lab at Harvard Med School.
I am a biotech startup CEO, nothing as glamorous as a public company CEO. We make about as much as a starting GP. I fell into it, not something I was passionate about or wanted to do in my career, it just happened. It’s only been for the last 4 years and the company is going under at this point.
Financial obligations, that’s what loans are for! I have no kids at home, and the basic financial situation is fine.
I am not completely set on cardio thoracic surgery. I know it is very competitive, better for the young ones to devote their careers to it, not an old fart like me. TBH I would be fine with cardiology, ER (which I did a lot of work in as a paramedic), or general internal medicine. But, I know I won’t completely decide this until clinicals.
The whole point of doing this is to do something I am passionate about, not to just have a j.o.b. or to do something I kind of like doing sometimes. Salary doesn’t matter, loans don’t matter. I plan to work in an underserved area. I’m not in this for the pile I am in it for the patients, and to be passionate about what I am doing.
Def sounds like you’ve got a strong package going for you. I would still work on getting a shadow experience on the books if you haven’t done that yet. Aside from volunteering (not necessarily required but helps, I personally didn’t have any), a great mcat score should about round you out.
Although you seem set on AZ, it wouldn’t hurt to broaden your choices in case it doesn’t work out with the one specific school. Uprooting sucks but is sometimes a necessary evil. The MSAR online is a great tool and is cheap as far as the application process goes.
I think AZ has a DO school or two as well if you’re interested in that option as well.
I’d recommend starting to think about your primary app essays and submitting as soon as the cycle opens up to shorten the waiting timeline. It took me quite awhile to “perfect” them, with countless revisions and edits. I don’t think you can start an account and get transcript request forms until the spring. You can still submit while waiting for your MCAT score, though you won’t be processed until they are received. Enjoy the fun that is being a med school applicant! It’s nice knowing you still have a life if things don’t work out as planned.
- jmuraski Said:
...Financial obligations, that's what loans are for! ...Salary doesn't matter, loans don't matter.
I want to start by requesting: please don't misunderstand my intent in this post. It is not intended to discourage you - only to make you go into this with eyes wide open. IMO, the cost of med school has skyrocketed over the past decade to the point that both loans and salary do matter. If you get in to an IS MD, things may be fine. However, most private MD and several DO are approaching 80-90K CoA and increasing 5% per year. Servicing those type of loans on an FM, IM, or Psych income (assume lifetime average of 190K) may require allocation of a hefty chunk of post-tax income towards repayment. It's certainly not impossible but it will preclude a "doctor" lifestyle. Loan repayment programs, forgiveness programs, IBR, ICR, PAYE, etc could mitigate this but I won't assume those will exist when I need them.
I've run the numbers for myself assuming I'll be going DO with a CoA of 75K per year and that I'll be doing FM. I'm also assuming my loans will incur less than 8% interest and that any savings will grow at a conservative, inflation-adjusted, rate of 1-2%. With these assumptions and given that I'm 40 today, assuming I start at 42, I'll need to at least work until I'm 70 in order to retire with a middle class lifestyle for my remaining days. And repay loans aggressively for 10 years after residency. All this is fine with me. It puts me in a much better position than I am today as far as income potential and lifestyle etc.
I don't know your financial situation. You may already have enough in retirement such that all you're doing at the end of residency is servicing loans (and nothing towards retirement). Still, I think you should run the numbers and see what they mean for you. $ is not everything, but you don't want to be miserable and financially strapped in your 50s and 60s either. I developed a spreadsheet for this analysis. PM me if you want it.
Want to add that I assumed you would be fine with IM, no fellowship. If you follow your original plan of CT surgery or your backup of cardiology, the financial aspects would be significantly different given the much higher income compared to FM/IM. However, if that’s the plan, you should look into how easy or difficult it would be to enter into those specialties as an older med graduate. And also note that you’ll be in residency or fellowship for 3-4 years more than plain FM/IM.