Hello all…love the support of a site like this. i'm nearing 30 and after what seems like a lifetime of prep have finally applied to med school. after graduating from penn, i worked in the business sector and did not find it fulfilling. i took off for the peace corps for two years and returned wanted to study medicine…post-bacc at penn for 3 years (worked as a research coordinator while going to school to support myself). subpar gpa: 2.99 and both mcat tries were not so great (25R and 23R).
the dilemma is that i've been accepted to PCOM and still waiting to hear from a slew of MD programs. when i began this journey, i was set on pursuing an MD…but perhaps this is not realistic now. i am preparing for my 3rd MCAT this spring, but am wondering if I should get started at PCOM. i feel torn, especially b/c my fiancee who is a urology resident at Penn has advised that if i do not get into an MD program this year -then i should try again next year w/ hopefully a better mcat score. he indicated that the career wise as a DO it would limit my opportunities to competitive residencies, as well the stigma against DO's is still alive and real in the medical world.
however, i believe this is not the whole story. i would love some feedback.
deep down i know i want to be a doctor, but am a bit unsettled as to what i should do.
thanks for listening.
Welcome!
Although I'm not sure I can give you any helpful advice on the DO/MD decision (I'll though if you just want my opinion, I'd say go to PCOM), I'd love to know more about your Peace Corps service. Let me know where you served and what you did.
My question to you is: Do you desire to become a physician or it is to earn an M.D.? If you your heart is set on becoming a physician, then your plans have come to fruition and you are on your way. However, if your focus is merely on the intitials and the specific degree, “M.D.” – then you should release your PCOM seat so that someone else’s dreams can come true.
Lastly, more of a rhetorical question than anything, why would you apply to DO programs if you were not sufficiently confident in their educational paradigm that you would attend one, if admitted? If you feel that you are settling for second place or will a substandard physician as a DO, then maybe you shoulda saved your money in lieu of applying to those programs.
No, I am not berating you, nor am I being defensive…I am merely asking questions that you should have thought about before you applied.
I wish you the best of luck & success and sincerely hope that you can come to a decision that makes you happy.
Hi there,
There are some MDs who will attempt to stigmatize graduates of DO programs as somehow “sub-standard”. I can tell you that after spending six months in residency in surgery with DO colleagues, there is no difference in their practice from my practice. There are no procedures that they perform that are different from the procedures that I perform as an MD. The prevailing wisdom from good residency programs is that all excellent graduates of DO or MD programs are invited to apply for residency. Residency directors want excellent physicans to fill their slots.
There are no guarantees that if you graduate from an MD program that you will fare better in practice or residency than an graduate of a DO program. As the number of DO schools increase (and they are increasing faster than medical schools that grant the MD) the number of physicians who are DOs will increase. As their numbers increase, there will be more opportunites for the general public to recognize that there are two equivalent medical degrees in this country. DO physicians practice in every specialty that MDs practice in. The only difference that I have ever encountered is that DO residencys are not open to graduates of MD schools. This may change in the future as well.
PCOM is a great school that will provide you with the education to become a good physician. You have a seat there and you DO have to answer the question of “What happens if you release your seat at PCOM and not gain admission to an allopathic medical school?” You have no guarantee from any allopathic medical school that you will be admitted in the future.
The bottom line, as Dave had pointed out, is “Do you want to become a physician?” If that is your goal, it would seem that you have attained a major step toward it. In the end, it is your career to pursue and develp. The opinions of others will be meaningless compared to your opinion of your career. Also, as Dave said, there are dozens of folks on the wait-list at PCOM that will be happy for you to release your seat should that become your decision.
I would also caution you not to accept a position at PCOM with the thought that you can transfer into an allopathic medical school. These transfers are rarely if ever, done today no matter how compelling the reason.
Congratulations on your acceptance!
Natalie
Well, you’ve got a huge conflict here in that you know that “deep down I want to be a doctor,” but a very important person in your life is making you doubt the path you know is available to you.
What happens to your relationship with your fiance if you go to PCOM? - since it seems he is at least subtly pressuring you not to accept that slot.
Natalie makes a good point, that you cannot be sure you’d get into an MD program in another year. Although you may do better on the MCAT, the GPA will hurt you even if your post-bacc stuff is stellar… your path to an MD program is far from certain.
There are DOs in every specialty field. It’s true that DOs are more often associated with primary care. It’s also true that there may be few DOs in some specialty fields, but that’s not at all the same as saying it can’t be done. I hope you’ve read OldManDave’s story of getting into the Anesthesiology program at Dartmouth.
I greatly appreciate your words of wisdom. I apologize if I may have in some offended OMD…indeed, I did not intend to do so.
I would like to explain the reason for my ignorance. I was not familiar with the DO route until this year when I applied to schools. I was advised to apply more as “in case you do not get into an MD program”. The orthopaedic surgeon (67 yrs old) that I perform research for at Penn also recommended the MD route over the DO; he works with both DO and MD residents. However, I had only received opinions from MD’s and thus wished for another perspective (OPM). Your responses have been enlightening and thought provoking. Considering that all of you are undergoing the process as we speak, I take into serious consideration your advice.
I think you are right in that my priority should lie in wanting to attend a program in which I will be able to attain a sound medical education, rather in the degree I will receive. I’ve been too influenced by other people emphasizing the superiority of one degree over the other.
I think whatever I choose, my fiancee will be very supportive. I believe he is offering up advice according to what his experience has taught him. I do not fault him for this in the least.
In any case, it is great to hear from both ends of the spectrum.
The Surgeon General of the Army is a D.O. If I was picking a doctor I would be more concerned with Board Certification than those two little letters.
| QUOTE |
| I greatly appreciate your words of wisdom. I apologize if I may have in some offended OMD......indeed, I did not intend to do so. |
Runner,
Please do not misinterpret my reply as having had my feelings hurt or that I was in any way offended. To the contrary, it is merely the essence of "me" to be blunt and brutally honest. I believe in asking the "hard questions" to make you think...that was purely my intent. By playing the part of Devil's Advocate, I wanted to entice you to consider your questions from a different perspective.
Before I ever applied to DO programs, I too had to do a lot of thinking. Was I merely applying as a back up? Would I accept a postion at a DO program? Did I consider them second-class Docs? Respectively, after much introspection, my answers came back: No, Yes & No. I had the advantage of working in the allied health professions for many years and knew many a physician with who I could really sit down & talk about this. But, I knew the answers to all of these questions before I applied to any DO programs.
Regarding DO vs MD, please invest the time in these forums and you will learn a great deal about the reality of things. Sure, there is some residual resentment out there, but that generally exists in the minds of the crusty old farts who cannot let go of the past (there are MDs & DOs in this crowd!) and GPA/MCAT obcessed pre-meds. You know, there are folks out there in our world who automatically discount my intelligence for simply having a Southern accent -- that war ended 130+ years ago. There are also folks out there who malign others for the color of thier skin, their choice of religion or their sexual preferences...does ignorance justify these? No.
In some circles...even in the highly educated...there remain physicians who are truly ignorant of the nature of DO graduates, where they train, in what specialities that you will find them and many other things. At one time, many years past, their concerns were probably founded. However, at that same time, MDs were only a few steps ahead -- remember, they were prescribing mercurial compounds back then.
Why does this BS hang around? Who knows? The most important thing is that you need to educate yourself and then make the decision that fits best for you. YOU will be the one going through medical school, not your finace, not your mentor...only you. You will enjoy the fruits of your decision and labors and you will be the one who endures the pain of your mistakes. Therefore, spend some time really analyzing what it is that you want and how to go about achieving it.
Know about the programs to which you are applying. In no way would I apply a rubber stamp of approval to all medical schools -- neither MD nor DO. Med school is going to work the hell out of you. And, when it gets ugly, far more important than the "name" of the school or the "initials" behind your sig, will be whether or not you fit in with your classmates and the program -- are you happy?
Personal & professional happiness are the Holy Grail.
I wish you the best of luck & success.
| QUOTE (RUNNER @ Feb 1 2003, 11:44 AM) |
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the dilemma is that i've been accepted to PCOM and still waiting to hear from a slew of MD programs. when i began this journey, i was set on pursuing an MD.....but perhaps this is not realistic now. i am preparing for my 3rd MCAT this spring, but am wondering if I should get started at PCOM. i feel torn, especially b/c my fiancee who is a urology resident at Penn has advised that if i do not get into an MD program this year -then i should try again next year w/ hopefully a better mcat score. he indicated that the career wise as a DO it would limit my opportunities to competitive residencies, as well the stigma against DO's is still alive and real in the medical world. however, i believe this is not the whole story. i would love some feedback. |
Some things to consider: with the 2003 MCAT, they are going to start releasing past testing history to medical schools. So they will know that this is your third MCAT. I'm not sure to what extent that will factor into their decision making process.
The old "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" rule has rarely let me down in this life. I ignored that rule once in my professional career, turning down a one bird job at another company for the possibility of some two bird events happening in the position I was in at the time. Regretfully, those two birds never showed up, and passing up that offered position ended up being the worst career-related decision I'd ever made.
I guess that's a long way of saying that if I were in your shoes, I'd make a beeline to PCOM.
[if I were in your shoes, I’d make a beeline to PCOM]
i think you might be right about that! 
Hello Runner…
Congratulations on your acceptance! PCOM will be my #1 DO school of choice when I apply this year… I would be interested in hearing what the admissions process was like for you…
Also I feel that getting into a medical school curriculum in the US is extremely competitive and getting into a DO school is a great opportunity. I would hate to throw that away because you might want to wait on an MD school. Tomorrow is never promised to us and I strongly believe in seizing the opportunity when it comes along. If you feel that there is a big diff as far as stigma is concerned… Be the one that helps to change it! and dont let something as silly as that rule your decision. I say you got in and you should take it…
Hope to get some advice from you about PCOM