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Nontraditional Premed Discussion
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You have a chance at anything - just, as many of us do, significant hurdles to overcome to get there. For your med school dreams, it will be important for you to demonstrate your (presumably) true academic capabilities. IMHO, you’ll also need to clean up your credit before you consider taking on another $200k worth of loans (though the army scholarship will address most of that, I’d still be leery of spending another ~10 years not paying off an extant $138k in loans). I’d also suggest - if I might be so bold - clarifying a position more than just “feeling bad” for people (which I’m sure you have, and I do apologize if this offends). It may also be necessary to consider schools outside of your area, if you are serious enough about pursuing this path.


Other than anxious (as we all feel - and believe me, as I did, with my 2.5 cumulative and 0.3 one semester), how do you feel about this whole process? I wish you the best with all of it, and with your mother as well!

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Don,


Of course you have a chance. . . IF you really want it bad enough and are willing to put the time and work into it necessary to create a good package.


What I mean is, especially if you want to go the osteopathic route at WVSOM, go back and take your premed classes and ace them. Any other undergrad courses that you can take over, if you get a good grade this time around, the new grade will be the one used to calculate your gpa in the AACOMAS application process, thus allowing you to increase your gpa.


Then visit WVSOM; talk to the admissions people; go to an open house; get to know the school. Ask questions of the admissions folks as well as the students you might run into. Tell them your hopes and plans and ask for guidance.


And after you have decided that this is definitely the goal you wish to attain, go on and tackle the MCAT. . . and tackle it hard; get a good score.


The entire premed/med path is a long one. Don’t be in a hurry. Take your time and do your best at each step along the way.


Good luck and keep us posted; feel free to ask more questions as you proceed. It’s a big decision. Make it wisely!

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OK you are 30,


Yes the 55 w’s are a huge red flag to ADCOM’s


the Masters finished? is the 3.2 the final?


I’m not so opportunistic for you as the others, getting into medical school is becoming so competitive due to its looking better then other jobs now.


You need to clean the credit


You need to talk to the schools (Understand it is few who can “Arrange” to go to where they live)


Organize a “Life Plan” how you will do this.


Talking to the school can give false hope sometimes. I read a post where one person with a 2.7 was told they could get accepted into a MD program, honestly not going to happen.


Why does it have to be those schools?


You can still borrow money to go through federal student loans (Not credit based)


The upward trend is positive and helps


A post bac could really help you


good luck

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I would suggest that you consider going back for a second bachelor’s degree in a hard science, NOT just doing the prereqs. You’ve got some significant damage control to do and you are going to need more than 30 credits worth of As in chemistry, physics and biology to undo some of that damage. I think a kick-ass degree would be a smart way to go.


Along with that, getting into a degree program might give you the opportunity to sign on with someone who’s doing research, and this would be a big plus for you. Especially if it’s something relevant to the population in West Virginia - diabetes, for example, or premature birth or smoking cessation or obesity prevention. (and no, I am not mocking WV, I am speaking empathetically as a neighbor and knowing the difficult health challenges faced in the state.)


I realize that a second bachelor’s is a bigger time and money commitment than you probably want to make; however my own personal opinion (no special credentials for this opinion, in other words!) is that it would give you the best shot. That said, it’ll be up to you to figure out if such an endeavour would be worth it.


Quite honestly, though it won’t actually factor in to whether you are eventually able to get into medical school, I would be especially concerned about that big student loan debt burden. The more you can do to figure out how you are going to manage that, the better.


All the best to you –


Mary

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Mary, So you really think a Second BS will help?


I think its a shot but since all the grades are averaged will not the GPA still suffer? How will this be looked at?


The bright side is a new BS with a 3.5 will show that the student has buckled down and changed.


I still am on the fence since a post bac (1yr) in one of the programs designed for acceptance into medical school ( with a 3.5) should work should it not?


I just not sure about this? The Masters they did was an upward trend.


I think this students best shot will be DO since I keep reading they are more into looking at the whole picture

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I’m not proposing a second bachelor’s to try and average out those bad ol’ grades because it’s mathematically impossible; I just think that this particular student/applicant needs to do more to prove his mettle than a one-year post-bacc. Also don’t forget that post-bacs are competitive to get into and I think his chances would be slim.


Another thing - As a degree candidate he’d have access to the usual pre-med counseling at his university and so would get a lot of the benefits that the post-bacc folks get.


Now, going DO could help in that the bad grades from early in his first college career would be canceled out by new, good grades - so that’s definitely something to consider. (someone who’s done this with a DO application can speak more knowledgeably to this than I can)


In any case, I agree with you, Bill, that the OP has a tough slog ahead of him. And I think it will take years - which is why I say to him, you’ve got some tough choices to make.


Mary

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I would have to concur with Mary on this mostly.


My background isn’t very far above Don’s in terms of grades, some W’s etc. My strategy has been to earn 60 credits of pre-reqs and advanced science courses (with a 3.9 GPA thank you very much). It won’t alleviate the old grades, but it will make a marked difference between the young bad student and the mature older student.



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Don,


Another possible advantage of doing a second BA/BS is you could have 2 bites at the apple with the second being on a step ladder (huh? I hear you say)


The first two years of a BA/BS towards Bio is basically equivalent to an informal post bacc. You could take the MCATs at the end of the second year (and there is something to be said for taking the MCAT right after you finish organic and physics as no upper level courses are needed for the exam) and apply to med schools at the end of the second year. Assuming an outstanding GPA and MCAT, along with having a BA already, no matter how bad, and an MBA, which certainly can’t hurt, you might get in.


Assuming you don’t get in, you should followup with all the schools a reconsideration letter and also find out why they rejected you. Some schools will just ignore you, but you may be surprised how deans/admissions people, will sit down with you, after you have been rejected, discuss what needs to be done, and work with you a bit. They get to know you and you are no longer just a paper application. Now you go finish your BA, following recommendations of the med school admissions people, maybe retake the MCAT, and whatever else, and reapply. At the very least, it shows dedication and commitment to wanting to be a doctor. You have a slight step up with schools whose recommendation you follow (they at least have a face with a name).


Additionally, as Mary pointed out DO application process does allow somewhat to overcome old grades. You may want to target specific old courses with the equivalent new course (even if not part of the major; I may retake calculus now just for that reason). Don’t rule out out of state DO schools. And, I’ll disagree with Mary on MD schools, with a second BA, great MCATS, I think you can make a good applicant.


Lastly, the WVSOM should be at the conference. You may want to talk to them before even embarking to get recommendations and advice.

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Don,


I will be doing a presentation at this year’s conference in Washington, DC June 19-21 (hint, hint, nudge, nudge)


My background is a Vice President/technology project & process manager at JPMorgan Chase and have applied those principles to project managing the premed process. The presentation is entitled “Practical Points to Prevent Pitfalls in The Premed Process: Zen and the Art of Post-Bacc on the Cheap”


enough self promotion.


Keep us informed of your progress

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  • gonnif Said:
Don,

I will be doing a presentation at this year's conference in Washington, DC June 19-21 (hint, hint, nudge, nudge)

... The presentation is entitled "Practical Points to Prevent Pitfalls in The Premed Process: Zen and the Art of Post-Bacc on the Cheap"

enough self promotion.





Very Cool!!!!
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I’m a little late on this post, but I completely agree with Mary. I was in a similar situation with an even worse GPA, many courses dropped - often the week before the final, etc. The most important thing D.O. schools have told me, is to show that the “you” NOW is nothing like the “you” which earned those bad grades THEN.


The wall I’m hitting with the 2nd bachelor’s is most schools (in CA) want you to complete all of the lower division courses first, and then ‘transfer’ to compelte the remaining upper divisions required for the major. They also want you to complete the degree within 2 years. There are not many schools out there willing to give you a second chance, until you can PROVE yourself academically - even when doing a 2nd bachelor’s.


Good thing for me, the Med schools I am looking into will allow me to take the BCPM at CC - and transfer to a Univ to complete the UD.


Hope this helps!!!

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  • gonnif Said:
Don,

I will be doing a presentation at this year's conference in Washington, DC June 19-21 (hint, hint, nudge, nudge)

My background is a Vice President/technology project & process manager at JPMorgan Chase and have applied those principles to project managing the premed process. The presentation is entitled "Practical Points to Prevent Pitfalls in The Premed Process: Zen and the Art of Post-Bacc on the Cheap"

enough self promotion.

Keep us informed of your progress



ANY way to email me the transcript after the fact?

I would love to see what you say! I mod another site and suggest the Post Bac many times as well as other options, My philosophy on all this is to look at the Options you have in front of you and choose the best path you will succeed ( I guess some of you know this) I choose a path that was harder then I thought but so far has worked ( fingers always crossed LOL)

Bill.
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I will post the presentation during the conference … either it will be useful or a source of immense amusement

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I would like to offer my own story, since it has some similarities to Don’s. I went to two colleges over five years before flunking out of NC State University in 1997. I worked my way back in, did 4.0 work and graduated in '99 with a GPA of 2.27 (it was that bad). I joined the Marine Corps as a Second Lieutenant in 2002 at the age of 28, and served on active duty for five years. I made the decision to pursue a career in medicine in the fall of '06 after about a year of doing serious homework/soul searching to find out if I even had a chance. This site was a real help in making that decision.


I returned to NC State last fall with the intention of taking or re-taking every requirement for every medical school I might possibly want to apply to. I am a senior in Biology, which allows me to go full time, as well as to qualify for GI Bill benefits. I don’t intend to complete the second degree, however. I started this with the premise that no grade below A would be acceptable. I made all A+s on NC State’s scale last semester, and am on track for the same this semester. This semester, I am also taking EMT courses as a local community college.


Through the EMT course, I made a connection with an ED physician at the hospital associated with the program, and will be assisting her with research for the rest of this year. She is also on the faculty at my first choice of medical schools. The point of this is that she is part of a cadre of health professionals that I have met who have taken an interest in me because they know that my desire to become a physician is sincere.


For me, I think that the hardest pill to swallow was the idea that I would have to suffer in years of misery to achieve my goals. I made a promise to myself that that would not be the case. I was 32 when I made this decision, and I just turned 34 last week. I can tell you that I am having the time of my life. I don’t go to keg parties anymore but I learned how to work hard/play hard in the Marine Corps, and my life is really great. Don’t get me wrong, I study continuously. It’s all about planning, knowing what you need to do to succeed, applying the effort at the right time, and planning to have fun when you can.


One piece of advice that I followed was to return to NC State for my pre-reqs. For me, it would have been financially advantageous to do this at UNC-Wilmington. I was advised by another mentor (who had served on a med school admissions board in the state) that taking my pre-reqs at one of the four most respected programs in the state (UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, Wake Forest, NC State) would carry more weight that taking them somewhere else. NC State was an easy choice since my alum status made my re-admission easy. NC State also has a pre-health admissions program that is second to none in the state.


Don, I agree with the previous replies that your financial situation will really amplify your burden. It will take careful planning to mitigate, which may include working full time/school part time, and stretching out your timeline from two years to 5-6 yrs. But guess what, you’ve got that financial obligation anyway, and if you didn’t plan to apply to medical school, you’d still have that, so bear down on it either way. Not to mention that those extra 2-3 years will allow more bad history to fall off of your credit report. Going the military route through the HPSP would definitely take care of the med school expenses, but you still have to get into med school.


Finally, I will offer you the advice that has served me well in the past, that I have offered to my junior Marines that have had big dreams, and that I am banking my future on now: If you really want to be a physician, you will find a way to make it happen.


To the rest of the posters, your advice had been invaluable, and I look forward to your opinions.

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  • lanierbl Said:
I joined the Marine Corps as a Second Lieutenant in 2002 at the age of 28, and served on active duty for five years. I made the decision to pursue a career in medicine in the fall of '06 after about a year of doing serious homework/soul searching to find out if I even had a chance.



A little tangent here since military and money happened to be mentioned. You probably know that all the services offer health scholarships where you receive both tuition and a stipend for medical school and owe the service a year for each year in (post residency I believe). This is good for any US medical school. A few members have gone this route, including a graduate of Westpoint. Another path to consider, but certainly not for everyone in these times. While the cut off age is 36, a navy commander in recruiting who was at our conference last year said basically if you have a letter of acceptance, they will get a waiver at any age. With the turn of very bad fortune in the economy last year, I am again considering this, particularly with my desire to go into emergency medicine. The other benefit of this route is you have a job upon completing residency and after your service, you would have an excellent resume to get a position in the private sector. Though if I went in, I'd stay until I retire.

BTW, there is a 60 year old orthopedic surgeon, who closed his practice and signed up with the Navy as a doc to honor his son who was killed in Iraq

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story .php?story...
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