It’s been quite awhile since I posted and I’m feeling the need because I’m just not comfortable making a decision between my available paths.
So many years ago I started college in the midst of major depression and anxiety. I tried when I felt good enough but unfortunately that motivation only lasted a few weeks at a time. Needless to say my transcripts are riddled with "W"s, "D"s, "F"s with a few decent grades sprinkled in. I have a 127 credit hours attempted with a cumulative GPA of 2.0. It’s quite embarassing. Anyway, I discovered that I have two options…
There are a few schools near me that do “grade replacement.” For those of you that don’t know what that is, it’s pretty simple. If you retake the same/equivalent course, your GPA is calculated using the higher grade. However, both grades still show up on your transcript.
Apply for academic forgiveness or administrative withdrawal. The former means that my old transcripts are wiped clean and I start over. The latter means that all of my old grades are changed to "W"s. In order to apply for this I need to write a letter to the school along with documentation of my diagnosis from my former psychiatrist - which I am able to provide. It’s then up to the dean to either grant me the “forgiveness” or the “withdrawal.” As far as I can tell it’s a crapshoot but I suppose that all "W"s would look better than what it looks like now!
So anyway, I had to wait quite a long time to get in to see my former psychiatrist (My appointment isn’t until the end of November), so I thought I might as well get started on school in the meantime. I took two intro courses in the summer and got "A"s and I am currently taking three courses.
So here is my dilemma: If I could be reasonably sure that there are a fair amount of medical schools that will separate my old grades from my new ones in the sense that they view the older ones to be an aberration, then I would retake the courses that have "C"s or below and then leave the "W"s. I do have a hell of a story behind all of this that I suppose I could tell but I just don’t know if the medical schools would even care. But to further complicate this scenario, I have many courses on my transcript that I would not want to take over since I was a business major then and certainly don’t want to be one now. So that would entail having to take those courses over just to tidy things up. Additionally, this might even further put me behind since by the time I finish all this I will be left with science courses that might need to be taken in succession, which could mean less credit hours I can take in a given semester later on.
I just turned 32 and I really don’t want this to take longer than it has to, but if my path needs to be longer (i.e. I am able to get my transcripts wiped) in order to give me the best chance to be granted admission into a medical school, then I am absolutely willing to do that. I have no doubt in my mind that this is what I want (and dare I say need) to do with my life). Any advice would be cherished.
My wife used to work in the Admissions office at GMU and here is her advice:
No question: A million billion people have this problem. Most don’t even have the documented, “good” reason that this guy has. Most were just immature and not ready for college (no crime there). This fact means that, absolutely the med schools will understand, because they have seen and are seeing and will forever see the same pattern with a ton of applicants every year.
No way should he wipe his whole transcript history and retake all the credits that he did earn good grades on.
No way should he get retake classes that he doesn’t need now (business classes and things he won’t be interested in or motivated to work hard on.) Both of these actions would just be inviting de-motivation and possibly even poor grades again, in addition to wasting time as he observes.
He should retake classes he got a C or lower in if they apply to his current and future academic plans. Not the business-specific classes, or anything else that doesn’t apply to his current field of interest.
Then he’s done with that whole thing. Just move on. Med schools can see dates - it’s very clear on transcripts if the early years were “Struggle” and the recent years were “Total Success”. They “get” the picture.
Then 2 things for the future: make sure he gets (and continues to get) lots of A’s. And begin to think out how to address “the early years” in his application essay. Two common mistakes: 1. Focusing the entire essay on the problem times - this is not selling oneself. And 2. sounding shameful or apologetic. It just is (or was) - state the fact, get over it and move on and focus the entire essay on how fabulously fantastic of a med school student he will be as evidenced by (fill in the blank).
I’m suggesting that he begin now to think about his application essay, because he needs to think about that “fill in the blank” part - what can he do now to further convince them that he will be a fab med student/future doctor? Volunteer at a local hospital. Take CPR/first aid and volunteer with scouting groups or the local group that’s holding an event that requires a certified CPR/first aid person on hand during the event. Contact the local schools and ask about volunteering to teach CPR/first aid (all ages can learn some level of this.) I’m sure there are a million better ideas out there. He needs to be starting now to make his app as strong as possible in a couple of years.
In other words, overall his early struggles are really minor in the big picture, from a med school’s perspective. He needs to make a decision on the transcripts thing now and quickly, and move on now - all his best selling points are going to be what he puts his energy into now and going forward. That includes doing really well in classes, and getting med-related experience.
It's been quite awhile since I posted and I'm feeling the need because I'm just not comfortable making a decision between my available paths.
So many years ago I started college in the midst of major depression and anxiety. I tried when I felt good enough but unfortunately that motivation only lasted a few weeks at a time. Needless to say my transcripts are riddled with "W"s, "D"s, "F"s with a few decent grades sprinkled in. I have a 127 credit hours attempted with a cumulative GPA of 2.0. It's quite embarassing. Anyway, I discovered that I have two options..........
1) There are a few schools near me that do "grade replacement." For those of you that don't know what that is, it's pretty simple. If you retake the same/equivalent course, your GPA is calculated using the higher grade. However, both grades still show up on your transcript.
2) Apply for academic forgiveness or administrative withdrawal. The former means that my old transcripts are wiped clean and I start over. The latter means that all of my old grades are changed to "W"s. In order to apply for this I need to write a letter to the school along with documentation of my diagnosis from my former psychiatrist - which I am able to provide. It's then up to the dean to either grant me the "forgiveness" or the "withdrawal." As far as I can tell it's a crapshoot but I suppose that all "W"s would look better than what it looks like now!
So anyway, I had to wait quite a long time to get in to see my former psychiatrist (My appointment isn't until the end of November), so I thought I might as well get started on school in the meantime. I took two intro courses in the summer and got "A"s and I am currently taking three courses.
So here is my dilemma: If I could be reasonably sure that there are a fair amount of medical schools that will separate my old grades from my new ones in the sense that they view the older ones to be an aberration, then I would retake the courses that have "C"s or below and then leave the "W"s. I do have a hell of a story behind all of this that I suppose I could tell but I just don't know if the medical schools would even care. But to further complicate this scenario, I have many courses on my transcript that I would not want to take over since I was a business major then and certainly don't want to be one now. So that would entail having to take those courses over just to tidy things up. Additionally, this might even further put me behind since by the time I finish all this I will be left with science courses that might need to be taken in succession, which could mean less credit hours I can take in a given semester later on.
I just turned 32 and I really don't want this to take longer than it has to, but if my path needs to be longer (i.e. I am able to get my transcripts wiped) in order to give me the best chance to be granted admission into a medical school, then I am absolutely willing to do that. I have no doubt in my mind that this is what I want (and dare I say need) to do with my life). Any advice would be cherished.
Rule 1: Take a Breath!
Actually neither scenario above would lead to directly to what you want. For purposes of AMCAS (MD schools) and AACOMAS (DO schools), GPA's are calculated inclusive of ALL grades. So grade replacement above would improve your GPA for the school but would be recalculated by the AMCAS and AACOMAS process. I am also fairly sure that W's are calculated as F's.
The AACOMAS/DO process DOES calculate the higher grade of repeated course in your GPA. So an F in chemistry then replaced with A now for purposes of application GPA (this is biggest application mechanics difference between MD and DO applications.
Also, from you original entry I wasn't sure if you had actually earned your degree. If so, classes taken after would be listed in a separate line item as post-bacc with GPA broken out for it. While your over all GPA with suffer with all the grades, having later grades, and post-bacc grades that show improvement can be made to stand out in a well crafted application.
Lastly, the question I ask many students, do you want to get into medical school or to get into medical school QUICKLY? Don't let fear of age drive you to take shortcuts and not present the best candidate that you can.
I had that question because I have sooo many credits that now it’s graduate or risk losing all financial aid, but my degree is in a generic “General Studies”. I will have to continue on with my pre-req’s as a post-baac. I was wondering how that will look to med schools.
Thank you both for your responses! I find it interesting that you both (or at least gonnif and DonAtreides’ wife) disagree. Unfortunately I also don’t find it surprising. Argh!
I just looked at my transcript and I have the following…
Not mine. I think as long as you finish strong then that past really becomes a faded memory. One day I’ll show you my early transcripts. You’ll look like a Fulbright Scholar next to me, lol!!!
Ugh. Yeah, you are probably not going to want to retake all those classes, but depending on your timeframe, you could potentially do that and work on getting into a DO school.
If it’s been a while, just go back and take a respectable load of science and math classes. Show that you can do well with that, and I would think that after a few semesters of that, you would be looking pretty good. There is at least one doctor on this site I know of that had a really abysmal early college life.
Well, I feel like a scholar compared to how I used to feel! Ha. Thanks to everyone for their replies so far.
I guess what it all boils down to for me is the fear that I don’t take the long route, apply everywhere, and then not get it anywhere. I fear the regret that would follow. Like many of us, I have so many regrets in my life that I really don’t want more.
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think would look worse on my transcripts…the aformentioned smattering of Ds and Fs, or to have those Ds and Fs all changed to Ws?
If a large amount of Ws doesn’t look that much better, I might decline that option from the school if that’s the only one they give me. I would just as soon move on and finish earlier if having the Ds and Fs changed to Ws wouldn’t make a discernable difference.
I have a feeling though that this might be one of those issues that I would need to call each individual school about.
I believe Ws are OK as long as they kind of happen the same semester showing a “cas de force majeure” where something really bad happened and forced you to dropped most of your courses if not all.
Now if Ws are a repeat pattern, I think they are worse that bad grades. I believe that if you had bad grades in the past and can substantially improve them now, then it actually make you a strong applicant (hoping that Med Schools look at dates). “I screwed up, was not ready, improved myself a lot in the meantime and here is the result”.
Avoiding to discuss and analyze one’s failures is more damageable than the failure itself. In that respect, I think that As and a strong MCAT will certainly be the confirmation that you can be good and these failures were due to various difficult circumstances at the time.
Disclaimer: I am no specialist. This is what I have gathered here and elsewhere.
I have to agree with Redo-it-all. W’s are intended to be used when an external factor forces you to take leave from a course, such as illness, death in the family, etc. Having multiple semesters filled with these would be death to an application.
Also remember that the GPA submitted to schools is what is calculated by ACCOMAS and AMCAS. It should also be noted that I think these services calculated W’s as F’s. (can someone confirm or correct me on this)
That’s very interesting and it really makes a lot of sense. Perhaps it’s better to show an F in a course that was taken many years ago with a A in that same but recently taken course. Maybe the Ws are just too much of an unknown to the powers that be.
I will hopefully have the letter from my doctor in my hand shortly. I’m just trying to decide on what to request of the school. If they offer to change the bad grades to Ws then maybe I should decline it. Ugh! This is stressing me so much.
Having never been on an adcom or been admitted to medical school, I am only speculating, so take my insights for what they are worth. Here is my thought: What’s the worst that an adcom will make of a W? Probably that it represents an F. Then how are you better off having an actual F there in your transcript? At least with a W, there is the idea that maybe something weird happened that made you withdraw from a class that you otherwise would have passed just fine.
I understand that multiple Ws kind of sink this “benefit of the doubt” idea, but still, is having an actual F on the transcript really any better? I have a hard time believing it is. At least with the W, you show you had the good sense to recognize you were failing a class and bail before the end of the semester.
After much debate, I have come to the conclusion that I am focusing too much on trying to change my past with regard to my old grades. But more importantly, I’ve realized that I was still trying to make up for my past in so many other areas of my life. I’ve decided that I am done pursuing anything other than the present and the future. I thank everyone for their advice in this thread because it’s been invaluable to me. I’ve been working a lot on learning to feel and trust my instincts again (as opposed to approaching everything in my life cognitively), and they tell me to move onward and upward.
I’ve come to the realization that I am no longer troubled by my past. It’s made me who I am, and it will help to make me who I will become. Sure, many schools will count me out early on in the admissions process, but something tells me that someone will bet on me.
And begin to think out how to address “the early years” in his application essay. Two common mistakes: 1. Focusing the entire essay on the problem times - this is not selling oneself. And 2. sounding shameful or apologetic. It just is (or was) - state the fact, get over it and move on and focus the entire essay on how fabulously fantastic of a med school student he will be as evidenced by (fill in the blank).