It’s been almost one year since I started on my post-bacc adventure! When I began taking classes again I made January 2008 a checkpoint, where I would decide whether or not I have any actual aptitude for medicine (or more so, to survive the rigors of medical school), since I recognize that wanting to be a health professional and having the academic record are 2 separate things. I didn’t want to be a crappy doc irrespective of what my dreams were, so if things didn’t work out, I would have gone back to work and pretend this little excursion never happened. Things academically did turn out much better then I had expected. I did a quick strengths and weaknesses run down, and was wondering if I could get some feedback on my strategy:
Strengths:
As previously stated my science courses on the basic BCPM prerequisites have turned out well. Thus far got A’s in BIOI/II, GChemI/II (lab included), Physics I, and Organic I. From my undergraduate days, I guess I could tack on a B+, A, and B in Pre-Calc, Calc I, and Calc II respectively… these math courses are a bit old, were taken between 2000 and 2001.
Graduated from top ranked undergrad business program at University of Michigan with respectable GPA.
Had a somewhat successful career in Systems IT Consulting from when I graduated in 2003 to 2006. Got promoted once, got a few raises, left on good terms. During that time had challenging assignments, occasionally worked 70+ hours/week with constant travel.
Can speak fluent Spanish and Chinese… I hardly think this counts for much, but I guess it’s useful in our current geopolitical status quo
Weaknesses:
My undergrad cumulative GPA was 3.5. I’ve been told that by my premed advisor in the past few years, the average has been like 3.7.
All my post-bacc science courses are being taken at a different school then where I got my undergrad. This state school is slightly less competitive then my alma mater. But I graduated from Michigan, the next best thing was probably the Ivy’s. Anyways, I was told this could come up. I didn’t go back to Michigan because Ann Arbor is prohibitively expensive, and I reasoned that Orgo is the same all over the world.
During the 2 main semesters (also a spring) I’ve been back, I stayed maybe 1 or 2 credits shy of “full-time†Each time, however, I took 3 courses. Also related to this, I took a huge risk by going back to school full time as opposed to taking courses part time and continuing to work. With the travel required in my industry, this would have been an impossibility though. This will probably diminish my application against someone who did manage to work full time and get all the courses done.
BIG FLASHING RED ALERT here. I earnestly feel that my EC/Shadowing/Patient Contact etc experience has been dismal. I did a volunteer gig at the ER at a local hospital for like 30 hours earlier this year. I basically restocked rooms. Honestly, I feel this is just a scam for hospitals to get free labor lol. The extent of “patient contact†was just to make sure patients needed a pillow, blanket, etc, and listen to how their in-laws are mistreating them. The most intellectually satisfying thing I did was checking the pressure level for O2 tanks… yeah… sad I know.
Been frantically trying to find a doc to shadow. Finally thought I found one, but I’ve been rescheduled so many times, that I think I might need to start my search anew.
No research experience. Professors seem to be picky about this, and are seeking candidates with late junior/senior science courses complete… and to complicate matters worse, I’m taking courses at a smaller university, so not that much relevant research going on in the first place
The Plan for 2008:
So I’ve decided to go full speed ahead with this despite some of the above problems. Taking MCAT in June 08 and submitting AMCAS at the same time. After that… I’ll probably try to find a full time job somewhere that will occupy me through the application process since my coffers are like starting to run dry.
Coursework-wise, finishing up Orgo II, Physics II, and Orgo Lab this coming semester.
Also focusing on getting some more volunteering and resuming search for a shadow-able doc. Sorry for the long post, if anyone has good feedback on my situation, please post them.
Can’t comment on the full-time thing, as I worked nearly full-time and took courses part-time, because my job situation made that possible.
My average just squeaked up to 3.5 before admission.
None of my volunteering was intellectually demanding. I got pillows for people, restocked gloves, fed people (in hospice–in hospitals they generally didn’t let volunteers do this for liability reasons), and did laundry in the hospice. The point is to spend some time around sick people, not get really good at taking blood pressure or any other medical skill. Spending time with the elderly and the dying taught me a bit about patients, but nothing technical at all, and that was fine with me.
I had ZERO research.
I was able to get shadowing experience through my county medical society. That approach may work for you, too.
I completed my informal post-bacc at an urban university–not a community college, but not a Big Ten school, either. I don’t think anyone really cared. If someone asks you, explain that it was lots cheaper. It’s true, and it’s sensible. If you’re not in a community college, it shouldn’t seriously hurt you.
There are some things you can control–find another volunteering gig where they really need some help and get a good letter of reference there. Continue to rock your coursework. Do research if you can, if not, don’t worry about it. Lots of people in my med school did zero research. Keep looking for a shadowing opportunity. And don’t let your pre-med advisor stress you out about stuff you can’t do anything about. It’s not worth worrying about unless you can fix it.
Good luck! I think you’re doing the right things here.
I agree with Denise. Your GPA is fine. Remember the AVERAGE is 3.7. I only managed to pull my overall ugrad GPA up to a 3.1, I think. I was asked at every interview about my original ugrad grades. They seemed satisfied with my answers.
I also had no research. Research is very hard to do as a post-bacc student.
I didn’t do any shadowing because I felt my extensive clinical experience was enough. In retrospect, I probably should have, as I was asked about it at every interview.
Hospice might be an excellent alternative for gaining a little patient care experience, depending on how much training your local hospice requires. Many hospice agencies are desperate for patient care volunteers.
I really don’t think it’s an issue that you went to a school of lesser caliber than your Michigan. It’s a state school, so don’t sweat it.
I also don’t think the 1 or 2 credits shy of full time will be a huge issue, especially if all three of your courses were science courses, but can’t say for sure.
I also did almost no shadowing, though I talked with lots o’ docs.
My volunteering was mostly just chatting with patients, plus some trivial tasks that a trained monkey could have done. I got to know some of the MS patients pretty well. It was not intellectually demanding but it was to me a great privilege and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Medicine’s about people and I plan to be with people as much as possible. A reaction to my computer career of years past, I guess. Best of luck,
I am going to be brief. You are fine. The 3.5 is nothing to worry about unless you are applying to the top 10 schools in the country where the average is 3.9 (according to last year’s Princeton Review anyway). You still have the MCATs and if you score a 35+, I don’t think any school will be out of your reach.
If you can’t shadow, volunteer. Do something to show you are actively interested. I wouldn’t worry too much about being full-time either. If you worked fulltime while taking your courses, you will get some leeway.
The only thing, I think you might want to consider is taking a couple of upper level biology courses. You rock those courses the way you have done everything else, you will be sitting pretty a year from now.
Well I tried to respond to each point but the board wouldn’t let me split it into so many quotes. So my comments are instead in purple throughout. Good luck!
Strengths:
As previously stated my science courses on the basic BCPM prerequisites have turned out well. Thus far got A’s in BIOI/II, GChemI/II (lab included), Physics I, and Organic I. From my undergraduate days, I guess I could tack on a B+, A, and B in Pre-Calc, Calc I, and Calc II respectively… these math courses are a bit old, were taken between 2000 and 2001.
Well, they’re going to be factored in regardless of age, so you do have to tack them on but those are fine grades, and the new ones will stand out.
Graduated from top ranked undergrad business program at University of Michigan with respectable GPA.
Probably doesn’t help but doesn’t hurt either. You should certainly present it as a good thing.
Had a somewhat successful career in Systems IT Consulting from when I graduated in 2003 to 2006. Got promoted once, got a few raises, left on good terms. During that time had challenging assignments, occasionally worked 70+ hours/week with constant travel.
Good work ethic stuff. Presents you as a strong candidate for any sort of endeavour, including medicine.
Can speak fluent Spanish and Chinese… I hardly think this counts for much, but I guess it’s useful in our current geopolitical status quo
I think this is actually VERY big and counts for a lot. It should be near the top of any list of skills when you submit your application.
Weaknesses:
My undergrad cumulative GPA was 3.5. I’ve been told that by my premed advisor in the past few years, the average has been like 3.7.
All my post-bacc science courses are being taken at a different school then where I got my undergrad. This state school is slightly less competitive then my alma mater. But I graduated from Michigan, the next best thing was probably the Ivy’s. Anyways, I was told this could come up. I didn’t go back to Michigan because Ann Arbor is prohibitively expensive, and I reasoned that Orgo is the same all over the world.
No offense (OK that means I’m about to be offensive) but your pre-med advisor is a little too name-struck and label-conscious to serve you well. The 3.7 statistic - well, I am dubious if that’s the average, although I will agree that it does keep getting higher. But a 3.5 is just fine. As for Michigan vs. the “ordinary” world, oh come on. Most med school applicants did NOT go to an Ivy. And based on many, many conversations with a LOT of OPMs over the past ten years, I can tell you that med schools do not give a rat’s a$$ if you do post-bacc courses at the same place as your undergrad. That’s just idiotic.
During the 2 main semesters (also a spring) I’ve been back, I stayed maybe 1 or 2 credits shy of “full-time†Each time, however, I took 3 courses. Also related to this, I took a huge risk by going back to school full time as opposed to taking courses part time and continuing to work. With the travel required in my industry, this would have been an impossibility though. This will probably diminish my application against someone who did manage to work full time and get all the courses done.
Well, yes, it probably does put a minor ding in your record when compared against someone who was able to approach it differently, but I don’t see that it’s major at all. And since it was the only way you could do it, don’t apologize for it.
BIG FLASHING RED ALERT here. I earnestly feel that my EC/Shadowing/Patient Contact etc experience has been dismal. I did a volunteer gig at the ER at a local hospital for like 30 hours earlier this year. I basically restocked rooms. Honestly, I feel this is just a scam for hospitals to get free labor lol. The extent of “patient contact†was just to make sure patients needed a pillow, blanket, etc, and listen to how their in-laws are mistreating them. The most intellectually satisfying thing I did was checking the pressure level for O2 tanks… yeah… sad I know.
If you talked to people, you had patient contact. Did you learn from it? Did you get a sense of what people’s experience of the health care system is? Can you speak about that experience? Then you got something out of it. But I agree, your experience log is lacking, mainly because when you say, “I really want to be a doctor,” med schools want to know WHY do you think so? And how can you back up that inclination? You need to show that you know what you’re getting into.
Been frantically trying to find a doc to shadow. Finally thought I found one, but I’ve been rescheduled so many times, that I think I might need to start my search anew.
Yeah, keep working on it.
No research experience. Professors seem to be picky about this, and are seeking candidates with late junior/senior science courses complete… and to complicate matters worse, I’m taking courses at a smaller university, so not that much relevant research going on in the first place.
Research experience is definitely a positive, but LACK of research experience won’t kill your application at lots of schools. If you can’t get it, you can’t get it. Here again, present your strengths in a positive, unapologetic, take-no-prisoners fashion and don’t worry about the things you can’t change now.
The Plan for 2008:
So I’ve decided to go full speed ahead with this despite some of the above problems. Taking MCAT in June 08 and submitting AMCAS at the same time. After that… I’ll probably try to find a full time job somewhere that will occupy me through the application process since my coffers are like starting to run dry.
Coursework-wise, finishing up Orgo II, Physics II, and Orgo Lab this coming semester.
Also focusing on getting some more volunteering and resuming search for a shadow-able doc. Sorry for the long post, if anyone has good feedback on my situation, please post them.
This sounds like a good, very do-able plan. If you are planning to apply in June 2008, you can do a lot NOW to get your application in progress. Start working on your personal statement - everyone’s style will vary, but I found it best to work in spurts separated by days to weeks. Think about who will write your letters of reference and figure out when you need to contact them. Look into the necessities of transcript transmission to AMCAS. And finally, think about your likely target schools, spend lots of time considering how many schools you’d like to apply to, where you’d be willing to live, what you’re looking for in a school. It can be hard to know what you’re looking for when you’re not there yet, but you should at least have some idea of what you DON’T like. (e.g., ‘I hate winter’ rules out a lot of schools.)
I agree with your self-assessment that you’ve done well, and you’re poised to move ahead. Good luck!
Rather than quote that whole long missive (the purple and black one), just let me agree with Mary. (Yet again. ) My only suggestion, and this is what I tell pre-meds…shadowing is an adjunct, not a substitution for, being around in-patients.
Thanks a lot for the feedback. Sorry it took a while to reply, been vacationing hard the past few weeks. First day back in school and trying to dive back into things.
But yea, I got a lot of info from your posts, helped confirm some stuff and dispel others.
