Advice needed -- DO or Ross/St. George?

Nontraditional Premed Discussion
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  • OldManDave Said:
So, before you reply from your ivory tower...research & substantiate your claims. You have bagged several on here for posting their opinions as facts...and now you are guilty of the same offense. I can speak from actual knowledge - first hand encounters - maybe you could cool your jets until you are able to do the same. You asked for folks input & as most people here are pre-meds, they can give mostly opinions, footnotes & tidbits that they have picked up here & other places. YOU have to research, read & learn to sort the wheat from the chaf. Most importantly, you have to make your own decisions eventually.



Ok, so where was I? About here? Let's hope so.

You might have outdone yourself on this one, Dave. Now you've not only misread the thread, but attributed a position to me that another member on this forum has in fact taken, and that I've disavowed. I've never bagged on anyone for posting either opinion or facts. Indeed, I've repeatedly encouraged both! The only requirement I've made in this thread is that if one does post something as "fact," then it damn well better be fact. And not some sort of made up bullshit to support their position. Is that too much to ask?

For example, if someone says osteopathy rocks and then points to the fact that "At least 3 from my own grad class went into Derm -- all ACGME programs." Well then, there damn well better be more than ZERO that went into allopathic derm from Kirksville that year. Don't you agree? (And, by the way, I think it's fair to consider your silence on this matter what we call in law an adoptive admission.)

And then to go on to lecture me to "research & substantiate your claims?" Are we all seeing the irony here?

And one last thing. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the AOA, or the student groups therein, would love to open the doors to all the osteopathic residency programs. My point is that no MD (nor most DO's) in their right mind would ever walk into one.

As I've said over and over again, absolutely all opinions on any issue raised in this thread is more than welcome here, as are facts. But false claims and the "DO gospel" are going to have to stay on all the other threads. That's just the way it's going to have to be. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers.

mdjd
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  • ttraub Said:


3. (This one's even more likely) You're wrong.

People can and do sue for discrimination on almost any grounds, often much weaker grounds than what OMD cited.



ttraub, that's some outstanding legal analysis right there. You've convinced me.
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Again, folks, this is not difficult stuff. Opinion, accurate facts, whatever, it’s all good. Post away.


My career is hanging in the balance, so I’m just wanting to gather all the correct info I can before I ultimately make my decision.

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  • mdjd Said:
  • ttraub Said:


3. (This one's even more likely) You're wrong.

People can and do sue for discrimination on almost any grounds, often much weaker grounds than what OMD cited.



ttraub, that's some outstanding legal analysis right there. You've convinced me.



Well kiddo, you have two whole years of experience as a junior lawyer so I guess you're the expert and the rest of us are completely uninformed.

  • Quote:
As I've said over and over again, absolutely all opinions on any issue raised in this thread is more than welcome here, as are facts. But false claims and the "DO gospel" are going to have to stay on all the other threads. That's just the way it's going to have to be. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers.



Sorry but you are not the owner of this forum and others will continue to make whatever claims they desire, JD. Perhaps you need to start your own blog, on your own paid server, where you can assert whatever opinions you want over whatever souls wish to spend time there.

Regarding "DO Gospel" you're just going to have to suck it up. There's plenty of "MD gospel" out there as well, as Dave just finished explaining. This is the real world, not lawyer school, and people have opinions. Get used to it kid.
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  • mdjd Said:
Again, folks, this is not difficult stuff. Opinion, accurate facts, whatever, it's all good. Post away.

My career is hanging in the balance, so I'm just wanting to gather all the *correct* info I can before I ultimately make my decision.



Wait a minute. You just said in a different post that at least some opinions are going to have to stay in other forums. Now you're saying it's "all good". So which is it.

If your "career" is hanging in the balance maybe you should be spending more time doing real research and speaking with working physicians, medical school advisors and the like instead of hanging out on an internet forum, trying to score points like a high school debater.
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  • ttraub Said:
Wait a minute. You just said in a different post that at least some opinions are going to have to stay in other forums. Now you're saying it's "all good". So which is it.



Good point. Opinions based on "false claims" or incorrect info (I'm being kind here because I know it's a family forum) won't see the light of day on this thread. I'll shoot 'em down like nobody's business.
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  • ttraub Said:
Dave, regarding OMM--just curious. Have you ever experienced cranio-sacral therapy as performed by an experienced practitioner?



Yes, I fell asleep because it felt awesome, but I perceived no "therapeutic" change. Of course, I must concede that I was not 'broken' to begin with.
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  • mdjd Said:
Ok, so where was I? About here? Let's hope so.

You might have outdone yourself on this one, Dave. Now you've not only misread the thread, but attributed a position to me that another member on this forum has in fact taken, and that I've disavowed. I've never bagged on anyone for posting either opinion or facts. Indeed, I've repeatedly encouraged both! The only requirement I've made in this thread is that if one does post something as "fact," then it damn well better be fact. And not some sort of made up bullshit to support their position. Is that too much to ask?

For example, if someone says osteopathy rocks and then points to the fact that "At least 3 from my own grad class went into Derm -- all ACGME programs." Well then, there damn well better be more than ZERO that went into allopathic derm from Kirksville that year. Don't you agree? (And, by the way, I think it's fair to consider your silence on this matter what we call in law an adoptive admission.)

And then to go on to lecture me to "research & substantiate your claims?" Are we all seeing the irony here?

And one last thing. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the AOA, or the student groups therein, would love to open the doors to all the osteopathic residency programs. My point is that no MD (nor most DO's) in their right mind would ever walk into one.

As I've said over and over again, absolutely all opinions on any issue raised in this thread is more than welcome here, as are facts. But false claims and the "DO gospel" are going to have to stay on all the other threads. That's just the way it's going to have to be. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers.

mdjd



MDJD,

Frankly, I am not here to argue or nit-pic. This thread is an open discussion & I felt compelled to provide my perspective. You can feel free to disagree with it if you wish. As I mentioned above, sorting wheat from chaf is your responsibilty & that must be performed in the context of your own personal & professional goals.

In as far as your alleged refuting of the facts I have stated - I sincerely doubt the validity of your google search. As you have indirectly pointed out before, the info provided via the internet is not always accurate. Furthermore, those members of my class who matched ACGME Derm may not have remained in those programs. Who knows, I certainly have not kept up with them...but they certainly did match as I mentioned.

Anyhow, again, I am not here to argue. You can take or leave any of my comments/facts as you wish. It's no skin off of my nose. Besides, my perspective is from the other side of the fence - about to complete my education/training...in most circles, that lends more credence to at least portions of my perspective vs that of a google search...
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WOW this thread has lost all meaning and has been mostly a battle ground over what I do not fully comprehend except control issues abound, Look healthy debate is good for us to learn but telling people they are wrong or that they do not own a thread or degrading a person is not what this thread is about nor is it what OPM is about,


The real purpose of OPM is for nontrads to bond in the pursuit of seeking the role of PHYSICIAN.


That said I think we would be better to stay on topic ( NO not a control thing but it does not read very well here to people who do not know us)


As you all Know I’m a Caribbean Student, but I know and respect all PHYSICIANS, Caribbean MD’s, IMG MD’s, US DO’s and US MD’s and I know in our hearts all of us do too.


It is good to look at the pluses and minuses of the DO and Caribbean MD routes I have to admit as much as I know the minuses of the DO route it does get to be equal or slightly better when I do a Pro and CON list and as I have said in the past I was not comfortable with the motivation to learn OMM so DO was out for me, but that’s my decision, no right or wrong there just a personal preference and I point that part out cause I think it is overlooked at times by others deciding, not that it is right or wrong but that I think you must embrace what you study to do well…


Bill.

90

I routinely suggest to potential non-trad clients that they log on to OPM and register/read the forums because of the incredible amount of useful information and the “family” aspect of the group. But this thread has gotten downright embarrassing. OPM isn’t usually flame-war haven. What’s going on here? Too much winter?? Lighten up guys.


Cheers,


Judy

91
  • OldManDave Said:


In as far as your alleged refuting of the facts I have stated - I sincerely doubt the validity of your google search. As you have indirectly pointed out before, the info provided via the internet is not always accurate. Furthermore, those members of my class who matched ACGME Derm may not have remained in those programs. Who knows, I certainly have not kept up with them...but they certainly did match as I mentioned.



OK folks, I'm back. Confession: I never really left; I'm always here for you guys -- I'd never leave my flock. You know that.

But what we have here is a failure to communicate. You see, as I've repeatedly pointed out, this is absolutely not the place for spreading the usual DO Gospel. There are more than enough threads on this forum where you'll find plenty of that. Lies, bullshit, etc. just won't fly here. I'll do whatever it takes to ferret out the true facts, so that others won't have to put up with this crap. Consider it my legacy to you.

So, let's get down to business. There were, indeed, absolutely ZERO allopathic dermatology matches for KCOM in Dave's graduating class. (Folks, I've got to admit that was a complete hunch on my part -- but give me a break, when the typical alllopathic derm match/year from ALL osteo schools COMBINED is ~0-1, it doesn't take a Mensa member to figure out someone's full of bullshit.) As I mentioned before, the dermatology discussion board which goes to great extremes to track this info showed no KCOM grads matching in Dave's class. But that apparently wasn't enough. (BTW, it takes a big man to admit they've made shit up -- Dave, you're not that man.)

So, after multiple phone calls to various administrative folks at KCOM, I've finally tracked down Dave's KCOM match list. (And just FYI, I've confirmed that not only were there not 3 ACGME derm matches at KCOM in Dave's class -- there has not been a total of 3 ACGME derm matches in the past decade from KCOM!)

I've attached the pdf, but just in case some of you don't trust the source -- it's directly from KCOM. http://www.kcom.edu/admissns/pdfs/Residen cy_Info_2...

Folks, again, I warned you. Spare me. Do you hear me? Spare me. If you have any propensity whatsoever for spewing lies like this, whether because of your training at an osteopathic school, or for any other reason, do not post on this thread. It will end your credibility -- I promise.
92

Unfortunately this topic has degraded into nothing more than a “tit for tat” contest so I am closing it.