Hello,
I am a long-time lurker. I was hoping for some advice on how to plan my post-bac premed classes. I have most prereqs from my BSME from 2001 except the Bio courses, but will most likely retake my chemistry classes.
I have been taking pre-med classes part time and have decided to start full time classes next year in Jan. So far I have taken Cell Bio, and have Chemistry I this semester.
For the spring semester, I plan to take
Chem II
Bio II
Organic I
Summer
MCAT
Apply
or Organic II in the summer then MCAT?
Fall
(Organic II)
Biochem
Genetics
For the med school I will be applying to, Biochem and genetics is recommended but not required.
How feasible is it to apply without Orgo II, and how difficult would it be to get through the MCAT without the Orgo II class, I plan to self study of course.
I would appreciate any input/critique.
Thanks,
Andrew
My initial response is a big “Whoa!” The question I always ask OPM members is “are you trying to get into medical school or to get into medical school quickly?”
Specifics below
- AndrewK Said:
I have been taking pre-med classes part time and have decided to start full time classes next year in Jan. So far I have taken Cell Bio, and have Chemistry I this semester.
For the spring semester, I plan to take
Chem II
Bio II
Organic I
Taking Organic I w/o completing Chem II is a particular hazard (see link below to recent post)
http://www.oldpremeds.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?t...
- In reply to:
Summer
MCAT
Apply
or Organic II in the summer then MCAT?
I personally consider both of these bad ideas
You can't/shouldn't apply without having the prereqs. Also there is still disagreement if/how much an August/Septemeber MCAT reduces your chances versus an April/May MCAT. Lastly, taking the MCAT w/o Organic II is itself an added risk to how well you will do on the exam.
The flip side is taking Organic II in a compressed summer class. Basically you got 15 weeks of classes compressed into 5 weeks. It is a full time job to keep up with the work as Organic II is perhaps the most time consuming course of all the prereqs. Having done it, I would not recommend it. And if you choose to take Organic II in the summer, you will have little time to prep for the MCAT. Remember most schools consider the MCAT score on par with GPA. That single exam is equivalent to a full semester worth of prep
- In reply to:
Fall
(Organic II)
Biochem
Genetics
The last part of Organic II usually covers and prepares you for Biochem, depending on the school and text.
- In reply to:
For the med school I will be applying to, Biochem and genetics is recommended but not required.
Doing well in biochem, genetics, and other courses will add to your strength as an applicant
- In reply to:
How feasible is it to apply without Orgo II, and how difficult would it be to get through the MCAT without the Orgo II class, I plan to self study of course.
One of my maxims is never risk bad grades by taking too much too quickly. Taking an extra term or two to do well will not impact your strength as an applicant. Bad grades will. You don't want to fall into the "hurry up" mindset and suffer from a weak premature application. You may want to reconsider your timeline, taking the MCAT after Organic II, when you have time to prep for the exam. It will make you a stronger candidate.
Richard, Thanks for your input.
Just to clarify, I have taken both Chem I and II, although almost 10 years ago in my undegrad years.
Most people I have talked to told me to jump right in to Orgo, but chem was sort of an archnemisis of mine in highschool (many, many years ago). And I figured it would be a good opportunity to truly master the material again.
About being in a hurry, yes I certainly understand that this is really a marathon and not a sprint but with older folks like us, I have to consider opportunity costs, etc. and I figured full-time classes would be the best approach, but I am unsure how to optimize my schedule.
Sounds like your take is to go through the whole lot of classes I had planned on doing, then MCAT/Apply the following year- 2010 for the 2011 year?
- AndrewK Said:
Just to clarify, I have taken both Chem I and II, although almost 10 years ago in my undegrad years.
Most people I have talked to told me to jump right in to Orgo, but chem was sort of an archnemisis of mine in highschool (many, many years ago). And I figured it would be a good opportunity to truly master the material again.
About being in a hurry, yes I certainly understand that this is really a marathon and not a sprint but with older folks like us, I have to consider opportunity costs, etc. and I figured full-time classes would be the best approach, but I am unsure how to optimize my schedule.
Sounds like your take is to go through the whole lot of classes I had planned on doing, then MCAT/Apply the following year- 2010 for the 2011 year?
My suggestion would be, if you must, take Organic II in the summer or better yet the fall of 2009, prep for MCAT early winter 2010 and take it in the spring. Again, be warned about the time needed to study for Orgo II inthe summer and I strongly suggest that you DO NOT try to take Orgo II lab at the same time.
I find many students do not plan sufficient prep time and resources for MCAT. While they may scheduled it well in advance, they try to prep for it while in a full semester's worth of classes. Most prep classes (ie kaplan, princeton review) are 12 to 16 week sessions (ie one semester). However, some are offerred over two semesters. To me this has several advantages. Gives you more time/less pressured time to study and prep. You also get access the their online tools, particularly their practice exams.
Remember the goal is make yourself the strongest candidate possible to get into medical school. You certainly don't want to rush in with a weaker application, get rejected, and have to reapply if you can help it.
Query along these same lines…is taking Orgo II and Biochem at the same time a particularly bad idea?
Here’s my tentative schedule for prereqs:
Spring 09 - Bio I, Chem I
Summer 09 - Calculus
Fall 09 - Bio II, Chem II
Spring 10 - Advanced Bio Elective, Phys I
Summer 10 - Advanced Bio Elective
Fall 10 - Phys II, Orgo I
Spring 11 - Orgo II, Biochem, take MCAT, apply May 1 (early application a bonus for my programs)
Please advise me on what I’m doing wrong here. I will also talk to my advisor (I am just starting this process), but I’d love your thoughts.
I apologize for the threadjack and I can start a new one if necessary, but I figured we are asking similar questions so why not. 
FWIW, I am a stay at home mom right now and my kids are in school from 8-3, so I am not juggling this stuff with a full-time job (not a paying one, anyway!).
- AndrewK Said:
Chem II
Bio II
Organic I
Summer
MCAT
Apply
or Organic II in the summer then MCAT?
Fall
(Organic II)
Biochem
Genetics
How feasible is it to apply without Orgo II, and how difficult would it be to get through the MCAT without the Orgo II class, I plan to self study of course.
Andrew,
I agree, that you should have OC II done before you take a prep course, or start studying for the MCAT. It is too hard to teach yourself new material, plus review everything else for the MCAT.
I disagree re: splitting up the course & lab. I did both as a summer course & started my MCAT studying while working full-time. If you did a good job and understood the concepts of OC I, then you should be fine. But make sure you have some time off after OC II to maximize your studying before the MCAT.
Rachel Yealy
Emergency Medicine
- heartoftexas Said:
Here's my tentative schedule for prereqs:
Spring 09 - Bio I, Chem I
Summer 09 - Calculus
Fall 09 - Bio II, Chem II
Spring 10 - Advanced Bio Elective, Phys I
Summer 10 - Advanced Bio Elective
Fall 10 - Phys II, Orgo I
Spring 11 - Orgo II, Biochem, take MCAT, apply May 1 (early application a bonus for my programs)
Couple of questions:
What advanced Bio elective?
Why are you taking them so early?
Yes, taking Biochem & OC II will be hard. Why not take OC I & II during spring & summer then take your advanced bio classes & biochem after that...I am assuming you are taking the biochem & adv bio for a major or to help during med school. They will not help for the MCAT. The 2 gen bio, chem, phys, & ochem is all you need to prep for the MCAT.
Gotta go, baby is up and need to go to work, I will finish thoughts later.
Rachel Yealy
As Rachel has already pointed out that Organic II (which I think the hardest course I ever took) and Biochem I (which most schools usually suggest Organic II as a prereq) would be a truly heavy load. I think however the hardest thing, and one of the common under estimations that non-trads make, is to understand both the impact and difficulty of the MCAT.
About 75% of allopathic medical school’s admissions staff responding to a 2007 Kaplan survey ranked MCAT as their first or second factor in evaluating applicants, statistically even with GPA. So it is as important as your grades. This impact may even be greater for non-trads as many of us carry “old grade baggage.” So even though we have newer and better post-bacc grades, MCAT is the one place for non-trads to really stand out. It can be perhaps the most important factor for a non-trad to show a medical school what they truly capable of doing.
The test is a 5 1/2 hour marathon that is truly comprehensive, requiring the ability to understand and apply multiple concepts in much deeper fashion than most exams that you ever took in your post-bacc. Preparation includes an indepth content review of roughly 30 credits of undergraduate work, mastering a difficult and time pressured examination style, and having the mind-set, the focus, the zen to get the best possible score on the exam.
If the goal to successfully get into medical school (as opposed to getting into medical school “quickly”) I often advise students to give a full semester just for MCAT prep. Better still is to slow down class taking, as overloading on too many classes too quickly risks mediocre or even bad grades, and give yourself to take a prep class for MCAT.
Thanks, y’all. This is exactly the information/discussion I was looking for.
My top choice school (the one closest to me geographically that would not require me to move) requires two semesters of advanced bio. I will probably take histology or immunology as one of them, because I would love a rec from the professor. Very good to know they will not help with MCAT.
This is all very helpful. When I get my kids to bed (first day of school exhaustion is running high around here!), I will take a look at my tentative schedule and see what I can move around.
Do you think Orgo is worse during the summer or in a full semester? The reason I am going for those classes in the full semesters is that I don’t have childcare in the summer when the kids are out of school so I am looking to keep my load lighter.
Will take a look at some things and come back later.
Orgo in the summer is high on my not to do list. I did it, repeated it from many years ago and had a good chemistry background. it beat me like an I was egg ready to be scrambled. I had 3 exams and a comprehensive final in 5 weeks! I found I needed two days (ie whole weekend) to successfully understand a chapter. At 2 to 3 chapters a week it was nearly impossible! Even squeezing in extra studying time as I work from home and even with the professor giving exam problems almost directly out of the book, it was a bitch and a half! I barely got an A- out of it! My experience is best captured by the following blues song I wrote about it
I got 15 weeks of schoolin’ but I’m doing it 5!
I said, I got 15 weeks of schoolin’ but I’m doing it 5!
I study so much that I feel more dead than alive.
I don’t know my mechanisms; reactions are killn’ me!
I said, I don’t know my mechanisms; reactions are killn’ me!
I study so much, my eyes they hardly see.
Alkenes and Alkanes! Alkynes and Alcohols!
Oh there so much to knows but I can’t knows it all!
I said, I got 15 weeks of schoolin’ but I’m doing it 5!
I study so much that I feel more dead than alive.
Thanks again for the input. Does this look any better?
Spring 09 - Bio I, Chem I
Summer 09 - Calc or Statistics (if I only take one of these, which should I take, i.e., which will help on MCAT more?)
Fall 09 - Bio II, Chem II
Spring 10 - Physics I, Orgo I
Summer 10 - Biochem, Advanced Bio Elective
Fall 10 - Physics II, Orgo II
Spring 11 - Advanced Bio Elective, study for MCAT, take MCAT
You could apply 1 year sooner if you do this:
(plenty of room to add math if you want)
SP09 Bio I, Chm I
SU09 Bio II, Chem II
FA09 Phy I, Org I
SP09 Phy II, Org II
FA10 adv bio, MCAT prep
SP10 adv bio, MCAT prep, MCAT, apply
…and 2 years sooner if that med school lets you do those required adv bios in your glide year:
SP09 Bio I, Chm I
SU09 Bio II, Chem II
FA09 Phy I, Org I, MCAT prep
SP09 Phy II, Org II, MCAT prep, MCAT, apply
FA10 adv bio
SP10 adv bio
But I’m new at all this 
good luck 
- heartoftexas Said:
Spring 09 - Bio I, Chem I
Summer 09 - Calc or Statistics (if I only take one of these, which should I take, i.e., which will help on MCAT more?)
Neither, there is NO math requirement for the MCAT and neither course will assist. Probably less than 1/2 the med schools still have a math pre-req. Stats will likely be more useful in the real world
- In reply to:
Spring 10 - Physics I, Orgo I
personally I find some students have more difficulty when splitting up two semester sequences over the summer, particularly Orgo
- In reply to:
Remember in summer school you are taking 15 weeks of schoolin', but your doing it in 5
- In reply to:
see previous comment on two semester sequences
- In reply to:
your biochem from the summer will count towards and advance bio elective
Overall, I like your plan here