I’ve been snooping around this site off and on for a couple years. This is my first post. I have, in the back of my mind, have been considering med school since I finished my undergrad in engineering.
Based on what I have read on the site, I’m probably a reasonably good candidate. Undergrad GPA on the low side 3.1 to 3.2 range. Science a little higher. Lacking only a second semester of organic to meet prerequisites.
I figure I’ve got nothing to lose in the attempt but time. So I’m just curious if anyone with a similar (or completely different) background cold offer any advice.
My plan of attack (not sure if it’s a good one) is to do independent study and sit for the MCAT. Then retake prereqs as needed (GPA weekness).
I have started, and for some masochistic reason, enjoy delving back into bio, chem, phys, and calc studies. Must be a bigger dork than I think.
Advice on a better plan? Other things to consider. Shadowing, maybe retaking classes now before MCAT, other thoughts.
BTW I’m 32, nearly 33, and lucky for me have the complete support of my loving wife.
This site is great. Any comments, thoughts, criticisms, etc are greatly appreciated.
Hi Peter and welcome!
You’ll find out, if you haven’t already…this is a great site with great folks.
You’ll want to see what you can do about raising your GPA as it may be more of a tough road for attending an allopathic (MD) school. However, if you retake some of your classes that you haven’t done well in, an osteopathic school (DO) will replace your grades. It is not to say that they won’t see the grades, but DO schools seem to be nontrad friendly. If you can get a balanced MCAT of 30+, you should have every opportunity to attain this goal.
Again! Welcome!
Kris
Are there theories on how well you need to score on the MCAT to replace a week GPA?
Peter, I don’t think there’s any algorithm, e.g. 1 MCAT point for every 0.1 GPA weakness 
Just do your best.
I would point out that if the prereqs you took are from your “conventional college years,” you may need to repeat a few more prerequisites. Some med schools like to see the prerequisites done within the last several years prior to admission. It’s hard to get a definitive statement on this although we’ve talked about it a LOT here. But if you took biology 12 years ago, it’s changed a lot anyway and you’re going to need to do some coursework - not necessarily repeated coursework, but new stuff.
Good luck to you!
Mary
Welcome 
.
I’ll echo what Mary says about the recency of pre-reqs - make sure that the requirements are recent enough for schools to accept.
Beyond that, do what you enjoy, and do what you’ll excel at. Explore the coursework, challenge yourself, and make sure that this is the right path for you.
Also make sure that you do not take the MCAT until you are ready. That doesn’t mean that you need to pay for a prep course; just be sure that you are not jumping the gun on it.
As far as applying to MD and/or DO schools go, that choice is a little ways down the road yet. I would caution you against applying only to DO because of their more lenient GPA calculations. (Of course, if OMM itself is your thing - by all means, pursue it!)
Actually, the best way to replace lower grades is by getting better grades, either in the same courses (if they were really low) or in more advanced science courses. An MCAT 30 or better supplements your grades, but grades are grades. Even though it won’t pull your average up very much, having recent, high science grades makes the schools feel a LOT better about your academic potential.
I’m anticipating a good year of independant study before even considering taking the MCAT. If prereq update/upgrades would help, I would look to start retaking those soon.
Thank you all for your input and thoughts. If there is one thing that I have learned from reading previous posts is to focus on the things that I can change. I can’t change my undergrad GPA, I can’t change the application process, and I will not ever be 22 again. I can study hard and do well on the MCAT, I can retake the prereqs getting A’s, and put my best foot forward in the application process.
I look forward to posting updates of my progress.
Welcome to OPM! I also received a degree in engineering, many moons ago (I’m 36) and my overall GPA is about 3.1 and a little higher, 3.2, since taking approximate 20 hours of science courses postbaccalaureate. I, like you, only required organic chemistry to complete my prerequisites, but I also took biology microbiology biochemistry as well. I think it would help you a lot to take upper-level science courses before you take the MCAT. Especially the organic chemistry and biology. Even though I’m an engineer, I still struggled with the physics section of the MCAT which was surprising to me – I hadn’t taken General physics since 14 years ago and some of those general concepts were not as easily recalled. If you have been out of school for quite a while and don’t test necessarily well on standardized tests, I would take a MCAT prep course, along with retakingtaking upper-level science courses. If you can take these classes at a university it would be better, but it is dependent on the particular school you’re applying to whether they’ll take community college credits and you might be okay doing that if you make A’s.
I understand what you mean about feeling like a dork because I felt the same way when I started back at school, I was a study machine and loved it! I think that is a good sign that you’re on the right track.
You should definitely get some clinical experience by volunteering and shadowing and/or getting a clinical paid job. I made the mistake of applying really late the first time I applied with no clinical experience and very naïve about the whole process. Better to do it right the first time and save the money of having to reapply several times. Apply early early early.
Good luck, I’m sure you will succeed!
What if you did fairly well on pre-reqs in the past but they were taken a long time ago (in my case 25 years ago)? I can understand the logic to retake all of them again for schools which need to see classes taken in the past 7 years, to cover the standard material for the MCAT and to reestablish the content (and most current content) in your brain. But do all schools want to see you simply retake what you did in the past? Do some accept what you did before if you have a great MCAT score? Should I take a couple of standard pre-reqs to see how I do, and then shift to higher level courses to show I can handle the course load?
My oldest prerequisites were 14 years old and consisted mainly of physics, English, and some chemistry. I was told that many schools are more concerned that your biology is more recent and that you can demonstrate that you can make good grades in recent upper-level science courses. This demonstrates to the admissions committee that you can handle the medical school curriculum. The only thing I really had to review was general chemistry prior to taking organic chemistry but probably if it had been 25 years I would have retaken it. I would take as many upper-level biology courses that you can take and it’s a good idea like you said to start with a few more basic classes and see how you do. I would contact some of the schools you’re interested in and ask them about their requirements, and I would also talks to a pre-medical counselor or adviser to get a good plan in place. I did not do that and it was trial and error and I wish I had found this website from the very beginning! It can be a frustrating process if you don’t plan ahead and take advice from those have been there before, which it looks like you’re doing. So, you are on the right track. Good luck!
I totally agree with snowgirl. I’ve been told several times by different schools that it’s much more impressive and indicative of high academic potential to get a great MCAT score and to get plenty of “A’s” in recent upper-level science courses than it is to merely retake courses that you’ve passed before. It’s kind of assumed you’ll get an easy “A” the second time around.
The plan that my advisor and I have planned is a conservative one (which I am learning is probably the best). It involves retaking all the pre-reqs - I took all of them before… long story… The upshot of it all was I didn’t listen to the right people. I didn’t have a great source like OPM, although back then I didn’t listen well. So the plan this time around is take the MCAT after I finish the pre-reqs then when I get the results start applying as soon as the schools start accepting applications. Then start the non-thesis MS BIO program IU offers in one year - 15 hrs per semester for 2 semesters. If I do well the first semester, many times IU will accept you into the medical school although you are probably going to finish the MS program. The additional graduate level biology coursework should help in med school is the marketing pitch.
I am not sure I want to spend an additional $15K with the formal program, so I am probably going to reevaluate when the time comes. And of course I will be casting a wide net so IU won’t be the only school getting an application from me.
I am in the process of studying the DO schools to see who I may apply to. When I get a short list I plan to talk to their adcom director about specific recommendations for their school. At this point I am equally interested in DO schools as I like the wholistic philosophy. Also since I think I am interested in rural or underserved areas, and of course I am a poster non-trad, from what I know so far it seems like a good fit. However the school in my backyard (IU) looks pretty good too!
Adam
Although not starting over, there is that element to it. I can see that retaking the prereqs is going to be necessary. Luckily there is a state university near by and I have some level of flexibility at my job. At this point in my life I have nothing but confidence in my ability to get good grades. And as far a standardized tests go, I’ve always done well on those, although it has been some time.
Thanks for the encouragement. Nice to see another engineer out there. I wonder how admissions boards view UG engineering degrees??
From everything I’ve seen about engineering degrees…they are very intensive and require (IMO) a high aptitude. I think your engineering degree will be a plus for you.
Kris
- peterhass Said:
Based on what I have read on the site, I’m probably a reasonably good candidate. Undergrad GPA on the low side 3.1 to 3.2 range. Science a little higher. Lacking only a second semester of organic to meet prerequisites.
Well its very borderline, DO schools a better chance then MD schools with a GPA below average, An Average GPA for MD schools is 3.5 currently.
- Quote:
I figure I’ve got nothing to lose in the attempt but time. So I’m just curious if anyone with a similar (or completely different) background cold offer any advice.
This I disagree with after attending medical school now, you have to be committed to do this, this has to be something you will complete not just "TRY".
- Quote:
My plan of attack (not sure if it’s a good one) is to do independent study and sit for the MCAT. Then retake prereqs as needed (GPA weekness).
- Quote:
I have started, and for some masochistic reason, enjoy delving back into bio, chem, phys, and calc studies. Must be a bigger dork than I think.
Know that the path to medical school and there after is not an easy one. But I would do it again in a heart beat.
Good Luck
BTW If I seem negative, I do not mean to, but I find it useless to candy coat what I think and know. You and anyone can do this but I know it takes focus and dedication if not you end up with a loan 100 to 200k and no degree.
While my situation isn’t entirely the same as yours I can see some similarities. I left school in my 20s with a 3.2 GPA. That was a GPA based on a lot of hours so there was little hope of raising it substantially. After 54 semester hours of all A’s (well, there was one B) my GPA advanced to an amazing 3.3. I didn’t retake any of the prerequisites I had already passed. I took organic chemistry and a boatload of upper division science courses. That seemed to work fine for me. I think the schools looked more at my recent work than my overall GPA.
This is just my opinion but I would not retake the prereqs you have passed except under the following conditions:
- Your state schools or schools that you have your heart set on require recent prereqs, or
- You have forgotten the basics to a degree that you feel it will hinder you in advanced courses.
Otherwise, save your money. You will need to know your chemistry, physics, and bio for the MCAT but you can pick up a book to refresh your memory. I guess you could treat retaking the prereqs as MCAT prep. The MCAT only tests basic concepts so mastering (or remastering) those subjects could help. I think that if you do that though, you should try to correlate your coursework to the outline of MCAT topics available on the AAMC website. If you are conscientious about that you probably won’t need to take an MCAT course- just take a number of practice exams.
Good luck. I am 33 and thought that this would be a horriblly painful process but it wasn’t. Make a plan and pull the trigger. If you do well then things will usually fall in place.
- peterhass Said:
My plan of attack (not sure if it’s a good one) is to do independent study and sit for the MCAT. Then retake prereqs as needed (GPA weekness).
One more thought on this, US schools are so competitive to get into, The MCAT can be retaken and the schools are supposed to count the latest one, but this is the thing, they see all the scores, So It's like it's mentioned in court and the Judge says to disregard it to the Jury, Nice but the jury still heard it.
I would not risk a poor score If I could help it because they see it.
- peterhass Said:
I figure I’ve got nothing to lose in the attempt but time.
Don't forget about the money
I can't believe how much undergrad tuition has increased. Anyway, just wanted to chime in and say that I am in pretty much the same situation. I have an undergrad in Engineering and my prereqs are about 10-12 years old. I had all of the prereqs except for Biology and Organic Lab. I just finished the first half of each, and I was excited about still being able to be a good student. In my case, I am interested in a particular school because it is close to home, so I called them and asked about the age of the prereqs and what I need to do to be competitive. They told me to finish the prereqs and do well on the MCAT. I'm hoping to apply this summer, but I may sign up for biochemistry next semester anyway. They also recommended shadowing, shadowing, shadowing - various doctors for exposure. I'm still working on that one. I've got a ped that I shadowed and have pestered him with many questions about the entire experience. He said he would ask some other doctors about allowing me to shadow also. I know that healthcare exposure is my biggest weakness as an applicant right now.
I understand what you mean when you say you have nothing to lose. I feel the same way. It doesn't mean that I'm not committed to the journey, it just means that if they won't let me in
, I'm still in a pretty good place. Good Luck!
- DRFP Said:
Just for clarification, there is nothing that says that schools are supposed to evaluate the latest MCAT score.
Schools can do what they want, and they do. Most schools look at the most recent score, many schools make an evaluation looking at the best score for each section (based on multiple MCAT scores), and other schools average the scores from multiple attempts. And, of course, as noted, the schools see all the scores.
Cheers,
Judy
Moonshine, my sentiments exactly. I already have a productive and rewarding career. I have seen several people post on this site with similar situations. Somehow the study and practice of medicine is a much different calling. At least it is to me.
I think the question I asked myself that caused the desire to be real was: “If you could trade what you do now, all other things being equal, to be a physician, would you do it?â€
I don’t just mean tomorrow poof you’re a doctor. Premedical studies, MCAT, med school, slave resident, etc. Then coming out with the same life, the sole difference is a change in vocation (is medicine really a vocation?) All the trappings of success that society deems important would be the same. Same house, same car, same life, even after 8+ years of dedicating your self to the goal. Except you are a doctor, Would you still do it? I say yes.
It’s easy to attach a dollar value to the process. Undergrad tuition is x. Application process is y. Medical school will be z. Let’s tack on 4 years of lost salary and benefits. Then you are rewarded with a position as a resident making less than half of what you might have been making anyway (assuming you have a career track job of some sort, accountant, engineer, nurse, etc). Wow, am i trying to talk myself out it now? I could not care less about the financial aspects.
I thank moonshine for the comment “It doesn’t mean that I’m not committed to the journey, it just means that if they won’t let me in , I’m still in a pretty good placeâ€. How true.
I understand the odds, but am not dispirited by them. Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination. I know from past experience the path of least resistance is almost always the least rewarding.
Excuse me while I kick my soapbox out of the way.
The energy any excitement exhibited by those who post to this site is inspiring in itself. Good luck to everyone!! And thanks to all who responded to this post.