Are B's bad???

One of my classmates, a fellow nontrad, has been stressing themselves out non-stop saying over and over “I HAVE to get A’s…” and has even dropped our one of our pre-med classes because they aren’t making an A this semester. They said that every medical school they have talked to has told them that in order to get into school the grades “have to be all A’s, otherwise there is no hope in getting into medical school.” So when I told my classmate yesterday I am making a B in our chem class, they looked like they were about to explode! I don’t think a B is bad at all, especially with it being my first time back in college in 9 years.


With that being said, are B’s bad grades as a nontraditional applicant? Personally I don’t think they are, but I would like to get others opinions.


Thanks!

Obviously, if you get nothing but B’s in your pre-req classes that could be a problem, but one or two isn’t going to kill you. I have two on my post-bacc transcript and I have two acceptances and 7 total interviews so B’s aren’t bad.


Also the thing to consider with their situation is do they need all A’s to bring up a GPA. If you have a 2.0, then yeah you are going to need all A’s.

It’s not so much that B’s are “bad”. It’s that you’re competing with an ever increasing pool of competition, the average GPA and MCAT score of matriculants keeps creeping upwards. 1 or 2 B’s isn’t going to scar your record too badly, but it’s pretty imperative to try and get A’s consistently, particularly in science courses, and ever more important in required premed courses. Also if you didn’t do so well as an undergrad you will want to show them that you can excell academically with your acquired maturity. You want to try to give them more reasons to choose you and less reasons to choose other applicants over yourself.


There is a fine line though of balance between striving for all A’s and being a neurotic premed. Unfortuately the process almost requires you become somewhat neurotic. The deeper I go the more neurotic I get.


If I were you, I would start visiting the professor during office hours and find out what study habits you need to change, deficits in understanding, etc you need to fix in order to bring the B up to A. I did the same in my biochemistry course this past spring, ended up leading study groups put together by the professor by the end of the semester and got a killer LOR out of it.

If the average GPA that gets into school is less than a 4.0 then someone has to have gotten a B at some point! I was able to do it with mostly B’s and A’s, but I even had 2 C’s and a D+. I wouldn’t panic. Even with those slip ups I had a 3.5 GPA.


Schools I interviewed at pretty much asked what happened and I explained myself. I owned my mistakes and talked about how I avoided them in the future. It was good enough for them.

• bapassey Said:

Not quite. A-'s have a similar affect on 4.0

Anyway, I am probably like your classmate. My GPA from my undergrad is... baaaad. Think sheep baaaaaad. Think professors seeing me in class now, then hearing how baaaaaaad my GPA is and watching their shoulders slump a little.

I think what you and your classmate need to realize, if I can hypothesize here, is that you don't want to settle for "B"s and hope that you can get in. You really, really need to try for an "A", study everything you can to get that "A", and then let the chips fall where they may.

Setting the benchmark at "B" will probably get you ... a "B"...

No B’s are not bad at all. To be considered for medical school you just need at least a 3.5 GPA. And even if you do get a few B’s, take some upper division courses and Ace them. GPA and MCAT score are the usual cutoffs but its the reason WHY you want to be a doctor that is more compelling than just grades. Most students who get into medical school don’t have perfect GPAs. Aside from that, apply to a lot of schools very early.


What about the MCAT? can it make up for a so-so GPA?

• emeraldfoot Said:

This is a misperception. In fact, the recent pool of applicants had an average GPA of 3.5 and MCAT of 29. While most people accepted will be above the average, but in the attached document from the AAMC, you can see the percentages of GPA/MCAT acceptees. For example, those with GPA of 3.20-3.39 and MCAT of 27-29 had a 38% acceptance rate. While the chances are against you, the odds are way above zero, nearly 4 in 10. Most schools do not have a formal cutoff of either GPA/MCAT, though guidelines do exist

• emeraldfoot Said:

Again in the attached chart, 3.20-3.39 GPA and 33 MCAT or above had over 50% acceptance. Even 3.00-3.20 and 33 MCAT or above had over a 40% acceptance.

In sum, having a good or great MCAT does help compensate for a lower GPA. For nontrads the MCAT also helps you can compete with all the other applicants



Attached files 1320965106-table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf (179.2 KB)Â

As usual, Richard, you posted something that took the stress out of my night.


I forget that my perfectly fine 3.7 or 3.8 with two B’s won’t preclude me from med school, especially if I have a solid MCAT score (32+).


Major FUD was setting in as I face my last midterm in ochem.

• Adoc2be Said:

FUD kills more premeds than GPA and MCAT combine.

But the force is with you young jedi premed.

• In reply to:

Love it!!

So, who are you channeling, Obi wan or Yoda?

I already have a B from last semester, and unless my groveling-request on one course this semester is accepted, I’m looking at a second B. And these Bs are at community college (gasp!) I will be applying in a year or two, so I guess we’ll find out how Bs at CCs affect prospects.

• radardenny Said:

Do well on the MCAT, you will

Link Yoda Speech Converter

You might find this information from AMCAS interesting to wade through…


Do this Google search “aamc mcat data 2008-2010” and open the first hit. My browser isn’t coming up with a better URL because this opens as a .pdf. The title of the table is “The Likelihood of Admission Based on Combination of MCAT Total Score and Total Undergraduate GPA.” [All applicants, 2008-2010.]


For instance, if you have a 3.2-3.39 gpa and an MCAT score of 27-29, only 26% of those applicants were accepted.


Cheers,


Judy

• jcolwell Said:

Link AAMC MCAT/GPA Grid

Link that Judy is referring to.

• gonnif Said:

Thanks, Rich!

I don’t mean to throw a rock in the water, but I kind of have an issue with these numbers. I understand that this is relates to all applicants and not non-trad.


Should I assume that because of our non-trad profile, these numbers are very inflated?


Right now, a few members who have very good stats (again by these standards), seem to have difficulties gaining acceptance(although the cycle is far from being finished, and in my opinion their fears are not necessarily justified at this point).


For instance, my MCAT/GPA would place me in the >80% or so acceptance rate or >70% depending on what total GPA means (undergrad, or undergrad+grad). Yet I am feeling my MCAT is low (30, with a poor VR = 6).


Adding all the tribulations of my background (that do include both pluses and minuses), there is no way I will have anywhere near this chances of success (and I am in texas, very favorable to its own residents).


So, I am leaning toward taking these with a grain (or a few more) of salt. In other words, stats should perhaps be adjusted to reflect the realities behind our profiles.


Or is this insane?

Redo–I swim in stats and financial reporting all day long, and you hit it right on the nose. EVERY stat should really be adjusted to reflect the reality behind your specific situation.


I frequently see people on completely opposite sides of an argument use the same number to prove an opposite case. They’re overall conglomerate averages that incorporate all KINDS of people with all kinds of backgrounds–so finding where you fit in this table is pretty impossible.


Are you safe to consider your odds based purely on MCAT and GPA? Nope. Med School adcoms certainly don’t make decisions based purely on those things. Can you take this table as a starting point to see what shot the average candidate with x & y stats have at getting into med school? Absolutely.


What you have to decide is whether or not you are the “average candidate with x & y stats.” If you aren’t, your chances could be quite higher or quite lower…


So this table is nice to look at. It gives me hope. But I know that it’s not based on the whole pizza pie, if you know what I mean.


Who knows? Maybe it’s a better overall indicator of the percentage of people who get an interview… or the percentage of people who make it through an initial screening…rather than acceptances, but without all the info, it’s really impossible to assess.


(And for the record, I completely understand your choice not to apply this cycle…but I was rooting for you to throw your hat in the ring! Two reasons–1)I think you underestimate yourself, and 2)I sure as crap didn’t want to be applying alongside you NEXT year. )

• redo-it-all Said:

Its insane which is an extreme form of FUD!

There is no way to "adjust" or control for age as a variable as the data is not readily available.

If you also use statistics as your guide, as well as common perceptions, then the difficulty of getting into medical school goes from the extremely difficult to the mythically impossible.

While you are competing against the applicant pool, you can only sell yourself with your history, achievement, and narrative. While MCAT and GPA are the two most important factors they are not the only factors. Besides cumulative GPA and overall MCAT score are gross measures that are further broken down in applications.

For example, If you had a traditional college senior applying with a 3.3 GPA and a 28 MCAT with little else outstanding , he/she would be a poor candidate. However, a nontraditional student with an similar overall record may have a poor original academic record but a great post-bacc, had 5 or 10 years in a professional capacity as a nurse or paramedic, long ties to volunteer and charitable groups, interview well, etc.

My point here is that getting into medical school is difficult but you need to evaluate your entire record and application and not be dissuaded solely on a crude cut of numbers. I certainly dont believe that everyone should go to medical school but that everyone should understand the realistic chances and be afforded the opportunity to present the best possible candidate they can be.

Carrie and Gonnif thanks for the pep talk. Much appreciated.

• In reply to:

Well my pride has suffered more than you can imagine after my low MCAT verbal (although the conditions in which I took it were very difficult). I am preping the verbal for a retake. And for the record, I surely don't want to compete with you either. You have been doing great thus far!. I will apply mainly to texas school and a few other. I know, I limit my chances, but this is the compromise I had to make with my wife. Stay close or not at all... So chances are we won't compete much. A major reason for why I didn't apply aside from a poor VR score, it that I didn't have enough credits to be credible. I am hitting the 60 credit hours at the end of this semester and will likely apply with that much as I probably won't take classes next semester. At 60 cr.h , I believe I am a credible candidate. At 40 cr.h I was not.

• In reply to:

Well I don't think it can be put a better way. Reading those words, for some reason, touched me deeply.

Right now I am doing the best I can with what I can control. It is going very well although my life on the personal side is difficult. Pressure, stress, and most importantly lack of time are exhausting and I feel the strain on my marriage.

But all in all, things are good.

Thanks again for the pep talk. Helps a lot to have my head pull up to the surface, take a deep breath before another long dive.