Calc v algebra-based physics

BTW, I’ve met many people who thought they had NO shot at a school like Harvard and they were pleasently surprised to learn otherwise by just submitting an application.





Thanks for the encouragement pathdr2b!! I’ll keep you posted!!


Thank you all for your great advice and the lively discussion!!


Although I’m still on the fence, I’m very much considering taking the calc-based one only because I never have been one to plug in the equations without knowing how I got there and why. I’d rather have overkill and be solid on the concepts than where I’m at today; lost as ever. It could also be where I am going to class as well.


Thanks again!!!

I took Algebra based physics 1, then liked calculus so much I took calc based 1 and am in Calc based 2 this semester. Here are just a few thoughts that I don’t think have been covered yet…

  1. The math semester 2 is much more difficult than in semester 1 of either. It includes moderate differential equations and multivariable calculus. Calculus 2 is a co-requisite.

  2. The people taking this are largely engineering and physics majors, meaning that they are all very good at math and likely well beyond the minimum math requirements. It is important to understand this because those you will be compared to likely do physics and calculus for fun.

  3. Most importantly, the basics are covered in three semesters, not two. This will mean that in order to cover optics, vibrations and waves, and thermodynamics (some are on the MCAT) you need to take physics 3 as well.

  4. Lastly, in my experience it is not easier, not by a lot. Given what is challenging you in algebra based, I think calc based will only be harder.

If you take calc-based I, would that not lock you into calc-based II? Just in case you take calc-based I and decide it’s no better than algebra-based I, would it be possible to switch to algebra-based II after having taken calc-based I? I would look into that just so I know my options.

  • Kavalles Said:
Lastly, in my experience it is not easier, not by a lot. Given what is challenging you in algebra based, I think calc based will only be harder.



Everything doesn't always "work" the way people think it will.

I got a "C" in Algebra/Trig the SECOND time I took it. Ten years later, I got an "B" in Dif-Eq AND P.Chem the FIRST time I took it.

I guess because I feel like I relate to the OP, I understand his "dilemma".


  • pathdr2b Said:


99.9% of my female students have "discouragements" issues. Almost, NONE of my male students have that issue and the fact is that aren't as smart as my female students (sorry guys, just keeping it real). So PLEASE forgive me (Oldguy) for going off the deep end when I smell discouragement because it's a dream killer especially for women. More than that, it has NO place on a site like this, where we're already dealing with significant odds in the med school admissions process.





I'm sorry, this statement is just not right. "99.9% of your female students have 'discouragements' issues?" You're saying virtually EVERY female student is easily discouraged? I think there are quite a few female students (many here) who would disagree with the frail, fragile, female psyche picture you paint.

In addition, virtually ZERO male students can be discouraged? Or would you say you haven't connected with, or been approached by any male students that happened to be discouraged?

Btw, did you guys know 80% of statistics are made up on the spot?

The statement that the females are smarter than the males is just as crazy; in the same way that it would be pretty dumb for anyone to say the opposite.

Again, just to make sure we're clear, I was absolutely not trying to discourage anyone, or tell anyone they aren't capable of any task before. It was a light-hearted observation at the progression of the conversation. If you've seen my story (which I've posted on this site previously), you would know 100% that for me to seriously criticize anyone in that manner would be ludicrous.

Do I still disagree with the strategy of taking, and paying for 2-3 semesters of math (if otherwise unneeded) just to take what will *probably* be a more difficult year of Calc-based Physics, for someone in their mid-40's, who had no stated intention of entering a research-based/dual degree program (and still has not stated this)? Yes, absolutely. But, as I stated, that's just my $.02.

And, btw, for all the home-gamers, which is it, do we all have much better chances than we think to get into Harvard Medical School, or are we "already dealing with significant odds in the med school admissions process?" Johns Hopkins or Grenada?

Hope everyone had a great Easter-weekend. And, today was a beautiful day for baseball!!!


  • olderguy Said:
I'm sorry, this statement is just not right. "99.9% of your female students have 'discouragements' issues?" You're saying virtually EVERY female student is easily discouraged?



Allow me to be CRYSTAL clear.

What I'm saying is that %99.9 of MY students are strenuously discouraged from success in STEM courses/fields by their MALE professors. And just so that I'm CRYSTAL clear, the majority of my students are white females.

Now you don't have to agree with that, and quite frankly I don't care if you do or not. Because it's become CRYSTAL clear to me that my purpose right now is to ENCOURAGE EVERY female AND minority student I come in contact with to reject, rebuff and other wise tell to go straight to hades through superior academic performance, ANYONE who discourages them from their goals.

Put another way, it STILL sucks to be a woman in male dominated fields in the 21st century!

I have no desire for research. I’m leaning about 80% towards Family Doc (pediatrics is a close 2nd).


I was so broken hearted when I got my 60 on my physics exam. I worked my heart out too. I thought I fully grasped the concepts. Now that’s it’s been a week, I really believe my tutor, albeit he’s pretty brilliant, confused me even more. Not his fault; back in high school and early college, I took and was an expert on Gregg Shorthand (now is that dating me or what?!); I don’t think I ever heard the word “physics”


That’s okay…I gleened a ton from this discussion. Lots of wisdom here!!


Maybe I’ll take a calculus class as a backup if I take algebra-based physics II. Calculus is offered online here in Texas so I can work on it when I’m able. It’s pretty cheap, about $300. Then if I crap out, I’ll go for the other physics. At least I’ll have it so when Harvard sends me their letter…I’ll be ready!!



Here is the way that I see it. If your goal is to be a doctor, you need the best grades you can get and the best MCAT score.


I know that you are struggling with the algebra-based course, but as others have said the calcus is also very difficult and the concepts are still the same.


I recently took the MCAT which focuses entirely on concepts and quick math (algebra). You do not have time to derive anything!


Thus, repeating the albra-based course is most likely to accomplish your goal. It will boost your GPA (demonstrate improvement) and prepare you for the MCAT.


Keep it simple and stay focused! The problem with most of us old guys is that we want to learn everything.


Good Luck!

  • Insects2humans Said:
Thus, repeating the albra-based course is most likely to accomplish your goal. It will boost your GPA (demonstrate improvement) and prepare you for the MCAT.



Hmmmm...I can see how that would work!! How about repeating it over the summer where I'm not bogged down with three other classes and can put all my attention into it?


For many people, summer courses can be a good strategy because it can allow you to focus. If the fast pace of the summer course doesn’t bother you, I say go for it. You may even get the benefit of having a different instructor that may connect with your learning style better.

I want to weigh in on the relative merits of calc-based vs. non-calc-based physics in the hope that it may ease the fears of some OPMers who think they must take the calc-based version to get into med school. I directed two different post-bac programs and each offered very different physics classes. In the Goucher Post-Bac Program the physics is NOT calc-based; at Johns Hopkins the physics IS calc-based. Both cohorts of students had similar success getting into med school. Moreover, in 20 years not a SINGLE med school ever asked, “Was the physics X applicant took calculus-based?” They simply didn’t care. There are rare med schools that require calculus (most now are shifting to statistics and some have generic “college math” requirements) but that’s a different issue than the physics.


I hope this helps ease the fears of some OPMers who think they must take calc-based physics.


Cheers,


Liza

To reiterate Liza’s point. I am a practicing physician and admissions consultant (for over a decade). You have NO NEED for calc-based physics as a medical student or physician. Zero. And adcoms do not have a preference. If you love calculus and want to push yourself, feel free to go the calc-based route. But don’t do it to improve your chances of getting into medical school.

I should apologize again for throwing this read off track.


As I understand the original question, the OP wanted to know which Physics she/he should take. And I stand by my suggestion to take something you’re interested in, even if its more challenging.