This is another one of those “I screwed up when I was younger and now I’m trying like HELL to escape my past mistakes” post. I graduated from college in 1993 with a 2.33 GPA (BA in English). I was young, immature, didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life at the time. Now, I’m a 36 (soon to be 37) year old, married father of 1 (with the wife due with our 2nd sometime around Christmas) that has realized he wants to be a doctor.
I currently work as a therapist treating dually diagnosed patients (psychiatric and chemical dependence) at a partial hospital program. I am the director of several of the programs and manage about 80 people. I have tons of clinical experience doing therapy with patients, plus I worked for 2 years in a psychiatric hospital working closely with the doctors at the hospital. I have no volunteer or shadowing (unless you count working along side a psychiatrist as they make their rounds - which I did daily for over a year).
Since my undergraduate days, I have gotten a master’s degree in Clinical Psychology with a 3.96 GPA. I have taken Chem I and II, Bio I and II, and Physics I. I received A’s in all of them. I am currently enrolled in Physics II and plan on taking Org I and II and possibly some Calculus before I take the MCAT in the spring. The best I can do with my undergrad GPA by the time I apply is about a 2.75. I figured it out, I would have to take another 80 hours of all straight A’s just to get to a 3.0.
With the family, I cannot quit my job to go to school full time. I realize I will have to do well on the MCAT (hopefully 30-35). My science GPA should be fairly high since I did not take much in undergrad when I was stinking it up.
Oh, and I’m taking my prereq’s at a community college.
So, I would like some feedback on my chances with a lousy GPA. Will I have to stay in school forever to get it up to at least a 3.0? It would take me about 3 years at the rate I’m going.
I plan on taking a few upper level courses at a 4-year institution (if I can find night classes) but should take the remainder of my prereqs there as well?
Do I have a shot?
Thanks
At the risk of being flamed by champions of ‘high-quality community college education,’ I will offer my opinion that community college credits aren’t likely to help you a whole bunch. Your medical school application will compete with applications from graduates of well-recognized, mainstream, 4-year universities.
If you, as do I, must overcome a not-so-stellar undergrad GPA from the distant past, your main focus has become wowing adcoms with current stellar academic achievement. The taint of grade inflation (and this is clearly guilt by association) from community college transcripts has kept many otherwise suitable candidates from gaining admission to many medical schools. The double-whammy of community college prerequisites plus a tepid undergraduate GPA may well be a death-sentence for applications like ours. If there is any way you can take “more rigorous” classes at a larger state (or private) university, you should try to go that route. If that isn’t an option, you’ll have a tougher time selling yourself to a medical school [i.e. it is harder, but not impossible].
In the most encouraging & sincere manner I can…
Tim
Clinical psych, I understand, is tough to get into so clearly you know how to write a good application.
Community college credits are not ideal but I’m assuming your job does not allow you flexibility to take day classes at a university, so that’s just how it is. Certainly if you can find a night class at a university you should grab it and knock that sucker out of the park!
Clearly you will not be able to pull up your cumulative average, so you need to point to your more recent record, and probably politely appeal a few automatic rejections, so that admissions committees will look at your recent work. That’s doable; you can just write a charming letter to anyone who rejects you asking them to take a look at the work you have done recently as you don’t feel your older grades reflect your true potential.
I don’t feel qualified to comment on your ultimate chances but I think you can maximize them. Working with patients alongside psychiatrists sounds like shadowing to me and is a more enriching experience than traditional shadowing often is, so I think you’re covered there.
I don’t think you’re out of luck by any means; you just have to continue to get good grades, try to get some university classes in there, and put together a polished application with, I hope, some truly stunning letters of recommendation. Welcome aboard!
i have a similar question…i was 17 when i graduated high school, and it was a big leap for me to go away from home and live on campus (no parents!!), and i didn’t focus well as a pre-med…needless to say, i got discouraged in my science courses and quit doing pre-med…that year i got mostly B’s and C’s…since then i have maintained A’s and B’s with have an overall 3.5 GPA in my undergrad…since my first year of college was back in 99-00, do i have to include coursework from that year when i apply for med school? i thought they aren’t concerned about coursework that was taken more than 7 years ago…
AMCAS requires you to report just about every course you’ve ever taken at a college. Some find it inconsistent that 7-year-old courses don’t count towards requirements, but they sure count towards GPA. From what I’ve read, though, most schools understand your perspective; freshman year indiscretions shouldn’t sink you.
… just don’t do what I did and screw up horribly your senior year :p.
- hawkeye Said:
Oh, and I'm taking my prereq's at a community college.
So, I would like some feedback on my chances with a lousy GPA. Will I have to stay in school forever to get it up to at least a 3.0? It would take me about 3 years at the rate I'm going.
I plan on taking a few upper level courses at a 4-year institution (if I can find night classes) but should take the remainder of my prereqs there as well?
Do I have a shot?
Yes, you have a shot. As mentioned above, some schools will automatically reject you because they filter out candidates with certain GPAs, but you can call/write those schools and ask them to reconsider. Many of them will. Most med schools claim that they look at the whole application before deciding to reject, not just the GPA and MCAT.
You are correct that you will never raise your GPA significantly. Your stats really aren't all that different from mine. I had a 2.78 undergrad, 4.0 Masters and a 3.98 postbacc. I think my overall undergrad GPA ended up being a 3.19 on the AMCAS. You will be helped, as I was, by not having many science courses originally. It means that you WILL have a good science GPA.
I think, if possible, you should try and take the remainder of your pre-reqs at a 4 year institution. If that simply is not possible, then your plan to take some upper levels at a 4 year is a good one. You want to prove that your CC pre-req grades were for real.
Your clinical background is awesome. I don't think you need any shadowing - you work side by side with physicians. You might want to pick up some volunteering (doesn't have to be health care related) if time allows. If it doesn't, think about your life a little bit more. Many non-trads forget about things they take for granted like volunteering for things at your children's school or church activities.
Continue to do well in your classes, study hard for the MCAT, apply broadly, and I think you stand a reasonable chance of acceptance.
Good luck!
- noor524 Said:
Adam is correct, you will have to report ALL grades you have ever received post-high school. I think you're mistinterpreting the age limit that some schools have on coursework. The reason for wanting recent coursework is twofold: First, you want to have a solid foundation in the pre-reqs to build on in medical school. Medical school is going to be considerably tougher if you have forgotten everything you learned in the pre-reqs (and trust me, you don't have enough time to learn everything they throw at you in med school, let alone spend a significant amount of time reviewing concepts that your professors will assume you know). Secondly, knowledge in the sciences is changing rapidly. Although much of the material taught in pre-req level chemistry and physics probably hasn't changed significantly, biology has.
As long as your recent coursework is strong, your freshman year performance shouldn't be a huge deal. You will probably get asked about it at interviews, but it is by no means a deal breaker.
Emergency and Samenewme,
Thanks for the replies. I didn’t even think about writing to places that reject my initial application. Never hurst to try. Great idea. I’m looking into taking Organic Chemistry and upper level courses at a 4 year. I will probably be able to do a couple, but they do not offer enough night classes.
T_Forsythe,
I understand your comments. I wanted honest opinions and that is what you gave. No disrespect taken.