Can one apply MD/PhD and MD only? I would rather do MD/PhD, but considering I’ll be 44 or 45 when I apply, I think my chances are slim. Plus, there aren’t too many schools that offer the PhD I want. If I want to apply broadly, I would need to apply to schools that don’t offer a PhD in my area of interest. Some do offer a PhD that can be started later. In the case of the others, I would do a PhD after an MD.
Can I apply MD/PhD to those schools who offer a dual degree, as well as apply MD to those who don’t offer a dual degree? If I get rejected to the MD/PhD, I could just do the MD and then do the PhD later.
Nahani -
I think it may depend on the school. At my school, I’m pretty sure that you can be apply to both. I do know of at least one student in my class who applied for the MD/PhD program, but was not accepted for the combined program.
If I’m reading your question right, yes, you can apply to schools which have dual degree programs, and to other schools which don’t (and then do the PhD later). Often if you aren’t accepted by the PhD part of the program, you are still a viable applicant for the MD program. For schools which don’t have a formal dual degree program (by applying through AMCAS for the joint program), you may be required to apply to each program separately. Of course you would want to coordinate that process with each program.
Cheers,
Judy
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…Often if you aren’t accepted by the PhD part of the program, you are still a viable applicant for the MD program.
Wow, really?! I’ve never heard of a PhD program that is more selective than an allopathic MD. Especially the science PhD programs, which seem to be begging for applicants even at the top schools (http://pregrad.stanford.edu/phdfaq.html#difficult). Any examples of this?
In my experience PhD programs are very selective. For most programs there are very few spots (usually between 2-25, depending on the program), and students are usually only admitted if they 1. meet the criteria and 2. the department can provide a mentor for the student’s area of interest.
When I was applying to PhD programs a few years back, I was considered a good candidate at several top schools in my field but was rejected at some because the professors I was interested in working with did not have any available space in their labs or funding.
Probably, the ease of getting in depends on the program, number of available slots, and the quality of the applicants. The same could be said for med school, but if you have 100 seriously top-notch applicants and 2 slots, it gets REALLY competitive.
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In my experience PhD programs are very selective. For most programs there are very few spots (usually between 2-25, depending on the program), and students are usually only admitted if they 1. meet the criteria and 2. the department can provide a mentor for the student’s area of interest.
When I was applying to PhD programs a few years back, I was considered a good candidate at several top schools in my field but was rejected at some because the professors I was interested in working with did not have any available space in their labs or funding.
Probably, the ease of getting in depends on the program, number of available slots, and the quality of the applicants. The same could be said for med school, but if you have 100 seriously top-notch applicants and 2 slots, it gets REALLY competitive.
Oh, really? What was your field? I’m pretty much just going by what I saw from the Stanford HHMI program I referenced, which mentioned that if you have a 3.5 and >70% Gre’s then you’re golden & have your pick of top programs. And as some of us know all too well, getting >70% on the GRE is like getting >30% on the MCAT.
If you are applying to dual degree programs which are MD/PhD and it is an MSTP (medical science training program…fully funded by the NIH, available at about 45 (44? 46?) med schools and possibly folding in Oxford and Cambridge), those programs are incredibly competitive.
Stanford, which you reference here with the URL for the Howard Hughes program, for instance, doesn’t have a dual degree program that isn’t the MSTP. And the MD AdComm has the final say regarding admission. If you don’t get into the MD program, you won’t be in the MSTP no matter how badly the PhD program wants you. However, you can always choose to go into a PhD program and (re)apply to the MD program at a later date.
Cheers,
Judy
I thought about what you posted a lot and I have only one piece of wisdom I can think of and that is “It’s like a pie, you can only eat one piece at a time.” Med school is tough on it’s own to pile up another program on top is very hard. I know some very bright people who struggled through Biochem and Pharm and USLME prep. At our age and everything I would choose later.
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In my experience PhD programs are very selective. For most programs there are very few spots (usually between 2-25, depending on the program), and students are usually only admitted if they 1. meet the criteria and 2. the department can provide a mentor for the student’s area of interest.
When I was applying to PhD programs a few years back, I was considered a good candidate at several top schools in my field but was rejected at some because the professors I was interested in working with did not have any available space in their labs or funding.
Probably, the ease of getting in depends on the program, number of available slots, and the quality of the applicants. The same could be said for med school, but if you have 100 seriously top-notch applicants and 2 slots, it gets REALLY competitive.
Oh, really? What was your field? I’m pretty much just going by what I saw from the Stanford HHMI program I referenced, which mentioned that if you have a 3.5 and >70% Gre’s then you’re golden & have your pick of top programs. And as some of us know all too well, getting >70% on the GRE is like getting >30% on the MCAT.
Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology. But then again, in my field there are very PhD programs to begin with. Also, in my field, not only do you have to take the GREs and do well, but there is a PRAXIS exam specific to the field that you must do well also.
Also, there is usually diversity in areas of study between faculty, but only 1-2 professors in each area. I, for example, am interested in neurophysiology of people with aphasia (and more recently pediatric neurophys - these are my broad interests), but there may be only one professor available to support me. If he or she is full up, then there is no room for acceptance.
One difference in my field vs. the Harvard program you are referring to is that there is not an overabundance of undergraduates that apply, depending on the program. However, the programs ARE selective. I was accepted at Northwestern, LSU, and South Alabama, but rejected at University of Wisconsin and U of Illinois because my research areas didn’t fit.
Also, most top-notch schools require that you have enough previous research experience (at least in my field) that you can comfortably talk about research procedures in an interview.
I have a feeling you are starting to put down the PhD degree as if it’s inferior to the MD degree. It’s not - they are different. It would be better to try to get admitted to a PhD program before you make judgment calls on the admissions processes - Some med schools look like they are easy to get into if you get a 25 on the MCAT, but tell that to the people who got a 30 and were rejected!
I also had another thought - can you apply to PhD programs once you are admitted to med school? For example, if you are not certain you want to pursue both, but decide that you want to after your first year?
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If you are applying to dual degree programs which are MD/PhD and it is an MSTP (medical science training program…fully funded by the NIH, available at about 45 (44? 46?) med schools and possibly folding in Oxford and Cambridge), those programs are incredibly competitive.
Stanford, which you reference here with the URL for the Howard Hughes program, for instance, doesn’t have a dual degree program that isn’t the MSTP. And the MD AdComm has the final say regarding admission. If you don’t get into the MD program, you won’t be in the MSTP no matter how badly the PhD program wants you. However, you can always choose to go into a PhD program and (re)apply to the MD program at a later date.
Cheers,
Judy
For some reason it seems like we’re talking now about several different things:
i. There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that an MSTP admission is outrageously competitive;
ii. Stanford has plenty of non-MSTP dual degree programs (http://med.stanford.edu/combined_degree/), as do pretty much all other schools that also offer MSTP. What makes MSTP so much more competitive is that NIH funds the med school & grad school years. For non-MSTP programs usually the grad school years are funded (NIH training grants, PI funds, outside fellowships), but the med school years are not. Of course the prestige associated with scoring an MSTP position also helps make it that much more competitive.
iii. But my initial question was directed to your earlier post which stated that some candidates fail to gain admission to a PhD program, but are still admitted to the MD program. I was just asking if you really meant to write that, because I had never heard of a candidate who was not admitted to a PhD program (as a joint or separate applicant), but was still admitted to an MD program (regardless of whether it was for MSTP or non-MSTP). And I certainly can’t imagine it happening “often.” Again, PhD programs are notorious for being extremely uncompetitive.
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Often if you aren’t accepted by the PhD part of the program, you are still a viable applicant for the MD program.
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Again, PhD programs are notorious for being extremely uncompetitive.
Some are, some aren’t.
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Again, PhD programs are notorious for being extremely uncompetitive.
I could be mistaken but I believe what was meant by the accepted to MD/PhD but offered an MD only interview is that if you’re not accepted to the combined porgram (either MSTP or nonMSTP) you can often be a good candidate for the MD only.
Also, I’m always amazed at how people naively think getting into grad school is such a “piece of cake” since most of the more rigorous programs require a subject test (which is NOT a cake walk) along with a competitive general GRE scores and GPA. Sure the GRE is not the MCAT, but the MCAT is NOT a subject test (ie Biochem, Cell, and Molecular Bio) either. Having had a class or 2 in graduate programs I can tell you that at schools like Hopkins, the Grad students sweat just as much if not more then the med students at least in the first 2 years. Try working in a lab while often taking 4 quaterly classes in subjects like Pharm, Cell Bio at the same time. DEFINITELY no cake walk!