Hey miller J. This is Andrea from Florida. I feel your pain. I just finished Chem 2 in a 6 wk summer class. UGGGG. I did well, but it took everything I had. I too am earning my MBA, but in Healthcare Management, along with completing my Pre-reqs. I think your MBA will assist you if you plan on being in the business of medicine. My first degree is in Gerontology, and I’ve been in Medicare managed care for the past 3 years. I’ve never met so many physicians that had no idea how money was being spent and how they could have a profitable practice, because the business piece was missing. Don’t think of your hike toward being a Dr as your second chance at greatness, think of it as an extention. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help
Andrea
well Hello Andrea! first of all congrats on conquering chem II this summer. I embark on it starting tomorrow … it’s another 4 week course. alot to cram in but it’s nice. where are you taking your pre-reqs at? i’m at a community college right now and was thinking about doing a fast track plan in the fall where you take Orgo I and II (each an 8 week course) not sure if it’s the best idea but it would allow me to take off work for the shortest amt of time I did write to several medical schools and told them my situation and was going to see how they viewed it… hopefully will hear word before it’s time to register. so what’s your plan and how far are you into this process? how much longer will it take you to earn your mba and how old are you? haha just a start
dudeee… haha my chem teacher is NUTS… finally got a syllabus on the 3rd day of class. oh well it says that he’ll drop 1 out of 5 tests… wonder if the final counts? lab counts as 30% and he said that that’s a given if you basically just show up. and homework is 10% … with tests counting as 60% so we’ll see… i’m hangin in there. trying to stay at least right with him… i’ll read it and he’ll cover it that night so at least I’m not lost. i do have to work some problems though i think that is my weak point right now is knowing how to set them all up… i’ll work on it some more tomm. fri, and all weekend and take the test mon. morning… also got a letter today from UT Southwestern and I was approved to volunteer there! awesome and I am going to go to orientation next friday morning. saweeeeet! might try to swing by TCOM open house on Sat. as well… have to work just a bit but if it’s come and go i’d love to try. tomorrow is a pool party at my big boss’ house so i’ll work from home first part of the day then go over later on… enjoy some fine bbq!!! life is good!
So hey Miller, what’s your impression of Gen Chem II versus Gen Chem I so far, out of curiosity?
Hey tim-
thanks for asking. well i think alot of the class has to do with the teacher. and we have a real winner let me tell you (just kidding) he really doesn’t care, has no structure, doesnt go from a book, etc but hey he did read us the test (sort of) really fast and kind of mumbled the sentences and i really tried to write as fast as I could. but you didnt’ ask about the professor, you asked about the course. I did really well in Chem I but I also think I’ll do good in Chem II b/c it is a summer course… yeah it’s hard and alot to do in 4 weeks but I also think the professors take that into account and help you out some. i mean c’mon it’s great to get these courses out of the way in 8 weeks getting 8 hrs. out of the way. so I say pound it out. i hear that in the regular semester the teachers make you do long lab reports and such but I haven’t done a single one. my teacher right now is like haha pretty much complete your experiement and you’re getting an A in the lab. and then we are dropping one test grade, and the lab is 30% and homework is 10% and tests are 60%. but the math seems a bit more involved but definitely do-able and maybe less conceptual than chem I. just from what people have said to me, chem II will be the hardest pre-req that you’ll take. it’s for sure a weed out course, get through it and organic is a third as hard. of course i’ll let you know once i cross that bridge, how about you… what did you think of it or have you taken yet?
- Miller J. Said:
Oooh. Don't know if I agree with that. Gen chem is definitely a weed out, but at an awful lot of schools organic is even more of a weed out course than gen chem. Organic is a whole 'nother animal. I definitely found organic to be the most challenging of the pre-reqs.
I hear different things about organic chem everywhere. A lot of people say it’s easy and not nearly as bad while others say it was something satan cooked up when he was PMSing. Ironically, I heard gen chem I was the hardest chem class you could take out of either the gen chem or organic chem sequence, although it was my chem instructor who told me that, so he was probably just trying to make the class feel better so they weren’t completely terrified of gen chem II.
I haven’t taken it yet Miller, I plan to this coming fall semester. I’m so lucky that I get to take Biology 1, Gen Chem II and Calculus I all in the same semester. 
I’d like to say I’ll take a break after this semester class-wise, but naw I’ll be taking Biology 2, Biology 3 and Calculus II so I’m just screwed. 
I did fine in Chems I & II, slightly less well in Orgo I, and just a hair worse than that in Orgo II. I was beginning to feel a little overwhelmed by the end of Orgo II, but that had more to do with my own time-management issues than with the class. Here is my take on Chemistry:
General Chem & Physics tend to be about the application of math to physical relationships.
As long as you possess solid basic math “chops” there is really little to fear from General Chemistry. Your math gets a better work-out in Physics, and the concepts are a little broader. But still, Physics was fairly manageable in spite of my own mild math phobia.
For me, Organic Chemistry is a much different world.
Aside from retaining a solid grasp of a few basic, but very important, concepts from General Chemistry (Acid/Base Chem, intermolecular forces, and RedOx properties will be your good friends), Organic Chemistry taxes your spatial modeling abilities. Being able to visualize various arrangements of molecular bonding either in your head, or on paper, will be very important. You will be bombarded with details about patterns of molecular behavior, hierarchies of molecular characteristics, and the properties of compounds composed of those molecules. You will be expected to apply that knowledge to reaction mechanisms involving lists of reagents and reaction conditions. You will then demonstrate your understanding of all of this by synthesizing (on paper, and in lab at some point) stuff from other stuff. All of these discrete details, individually, are pretty simple but there are a lot of them! Keeping all of those little details herded correctly in my noggin’ was often painful. It did eventually gel into something meaningful, but it took some serious work. It can be very tempting to try memorizing all of the reaction mechanisms, reagents, and reaction conditions. That would be a ton of work for a limited reward. If you manage to REALLY learn all of that really basic stuff about how organic molecules react, you don’t have to memorize too much else. You may begin predicting what various arrangements of molecules will do without even having seen them before. If you are like me, you’ll even begin dreaming about chemical reactions. 
If you can master this sort of information, you are making a good case (to many admissions folks) that you can deal with the stream of detail that medical students are expected to absorb readily.
Good luck with that! 
I have been told that in order to do well on the MCAT, you really only need Physics I and Org I. So I devised a plan that will enable me to apply to med school a full year earlier…take Gen Chem I and Physics I in the fall, and Org I in the spring (finishing Org I just in time to take the MCAT) My question is…is it possible to do well in Org I without Gen Chem II? Keep in mind that I have taken all of these classes 20 years ago.
Well, if I recall…in Gen Chem II you deal with acid/base and titrations…so I’m really am not sure. Also, you need to check if you can get into Organic Chemistry without Gen Chem II. Many schools have it as a prerequisite.
I think that it is in your best interests to finish ALL of your prerequisites before attempting the MCAT. Why handicap yourself? Yeah, maybe there will only be a smaller amount of questions that deal with Physics II, Organic Chem II and Gen Chem II…but think of it this way…if you mess up on some other questions, but you are able to answer questions referring to these second part sciences…you’ll come out even or ahead.
Also, by taking all the prereqs before, you will be enforcing what you have learned in the first semester courses. I know there is nothing like getting started, but medical school isn’t going anywhere. Remember…it is a marathon, not a sprint.
Kris
IMO, rushing things based on “I’ve heard that you really only need x, y, z to do well” is never a good strategy. While MOST of the topics on the MCAT DO tend to be covered in 1st semester Org and Physics, there are a still a decent amount of topics that are usually in the second semester. If you happen to get a test form that is heavy in topics that you haven’t studied . . .
I also felt that the concepts in Chem II were very necessary for doing well in Org I.
Your strategy only allows you to do save a year if you do well on the MCAT and you don’t need the adcoms to see the grades for the courses you are taking after you fill out your application.
If you are determined to take the MCAT without Org II and Physics II (I’m assuming that you will have taken the rest of the pre-reqs), I suggest that you check the AAMC’s website where they have a list of topics for the MCAT posted and compare that to the topics that are covered in the pre-reqs at your school. That will give you a better idea of how many topics are testable that you will not have studied.
Okay guys, thanks so much for your imput. I’m still not sure what I’ll do, but having another perspective definitely helps.
this is a pretty popular thread and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it throughout my 4 weeks of Chem I and 1 week of Chem II so far this semester. shall we start an Organic and Bio thread in the Fall?
I’m up for that, I’ll be taking Bio 1 in the Fall anyway, will actually be able to give input on it. 
- Miller J. Said:
I'm definitely up for the organic chemistry one. I'm taking it in the fall and I've been already trying to get through chapter 1 (which is essentially a review of general chemistry).
Also, I just got this great book...Organic Chemistry I as a Second Language by David Klein. It will get you off on the right foot with resonance and mechanisms.
Kris
- NP2MD Said:
No! Don't do it! But seriously....
Of course you can do whatever you think suits you best, but the advice you've received above is good for a whole lot of reasons. It sounds like you are focusing on the reasoning that you actually are at least a little familiar with the material (though it's a long time ago) and so academically you can master it more easily. I have no doubt that this is possible, at least for some people.
However, there's more to it than that. Like it or not, we OPMs have something to prove when our applications land in the admissions office and the stronger your application is at the get-go, the smoother sailing you will have. You are up against the best of the best - great MCATs, great GPAs in tough curricula, great extracurricular activities. Those kids who are applying to med school are NOT the slackers who sit in the back in o-chem and quietly disappear before the second test, oh no. These kids are good.
And so you have to be too. And if you don't have a full plate of grades from recent science coursework, and letters from the profs who can say "She was one of the best in my o-chem class both semesters," you are at a disadvantage. You cannot afford to think of this pre-med portion of the journey as something to go through as quickly as possible. If you submit an application that is pending grades in many major prerequisites, your application will not be considered until you've completed those classes - and you'll be at a disadvantage for getting interview invitations.
I hate to say it, because I am even older than you I think
but the reaction of AdComs to 20-year-old grades, no matter how good they are, is going to be, "Yeah but can s/he still hack it?" One semester of As is not going to be convincing.Oh, and some other thoughts:
1. taking the MCAT sucks royally; I had one physician friend describe it as "the worst test you'll ever take," and he included his experiences with the USMLE steps and his specialty boards in that assessment. I personally think Step One of the USMLE was even worse, but the MCAT is right up there. More time and coursework in preparation for the MCAT is never, ever time wasted. If at all possible you do NOT want to take the MCAT twice.
and
2. You also don't want to have to apply to med school more than once if at all possible, because that, too, is a royal pain in the ass. The amount of time on the personal statement, the application descriptions of your work and volunteer experiences, the LORs you have to get and be sure they go to the right places, the interviews, the agony of waiting, yadda yadda yadda yadda. It is a grueling experience to say the least and you want to do everything you can to make sure that your first application is your best and LAST application.
just my opinion..... so take it for what it's worth
Mary
WOW?!? Lots of questions for me, but I know how you feel. Isn’t it refreshing to find someone almost in your exact situation??? I’m completely obsessed and its like no one in my family, or friends can stand to talk to me! Thats ok though, I take it in stride and with lots and lots of Red Bull! So I’ll start at the top:
*I am 25 years old and I live on the east coast of Florida, the Space Coast, nearest land mark Cocoa Beach and Kennedy Space Center.
- I am currently taking my prereqs at a community college but found out that this is frowned on by medical schools if taken out of the summer sequence so I am attending the University of Central Florida (Which is inducting its charter class into medical school the same year I will apply) in the Fall to do the Ochem and Physics sequence.
*Ochem and Physics are all I have left, and thus I will be finished in May, and am planning to take the June CBT MCAT.
*I’m currently in A&P II and Biology (repeating for a better grade) at community college, just a hint, if you take A&P DONT DO IT IN THE SUMMER!!! I’m holding on to my A by the skin of my teeth!
- I will complete my MBA in the fall of 08 which is great since I will be applying to med school that summer and will need something to pass the time.
*Added hint, I didnt have the most shiny undergrad GPA, so I took some “cushion courses” still science classes that would help with the MCAT and look great on my transcripts, but also boosts my GPA (Nutrition, Microbiology, Biochemistry, A&P, and Neurobiology). These classes aren’t necessary but they will help.
Well thats all the nuggets of wisdom I have for you. We’re all in this together, and I’m so glad this org exsits, I just have no other outlet. Let me know if this helps or if you wanna chat, Andrea
YES, thats a great idea, and you’ll be glad to know that the first part of Bio will almost bore you with asking the charges of protons neutrons and electrons!!! YAWN
However, you will see the relevance of Gibbs free energy in a biological system, I just kinda did the problems in chem II, but it didnt have any reason. I don’t like Bio as much, bunch of vocabulary, and understanding concepts. I much rather prefer a formula that I can put to a problem like in physics and chemistry, its not obscure, a+b=c and thats just it. Once you grasp the formula and know how to apply it to manipulated problems, chem II will be your friend! And youre lucky your lab is part of your class, mine was a seperate class, and a seperate grade!!!
chem II is crazy1! just got the first test back and made 85. wasn’t wild about that at all!! I am an A student but this teacher is NUTS and these departmental tests are wicked. It was almost to the point of not asking us the math… but asking us the concepts behind in an obscure way… anyways… I hope to really pull up but from what i hear about these next tests… it only gets harder … i hate to hear that and hate the fact that I did’nt start off with a HIGH A on the 1st test. I just feel soo out of my rhythm totally different from my Chem I class… but who knows… maybe i’m not stupid… maybe Chemistry is just Hard. I can surely say that i put soo much work into it and didn’t get the result back that i had hoped for
Never fear!!! I’ll tell you a story of true perseverence. I was pre med in undergrad but due to some personal issues I decided to graduate undergrad so I could go to work, putting Med school on the back burner to sizzle for a while. I took chem 1 in the spring of 2002. I took chem 2 this past semester, 5 yrs later, with no brush up, i jumped in head first, and let me tell you my head hit the ground. I didn’t pass the first exam. I wouldnt allow myself to get discouraged, knowing that if my confidence was shaken in this class, that I wouldnt pursue the dream. I kept plugging. Bombed the next test, kept on keeping on. Next test, got a C. Now starting to get frustrated with only one more exam and a final to go. My professor gave us an out, because it was summer, she offered anyone that scored below a 70% to retake their exams, JACKPOT! I retook exam 2, and 4 scoring a 96 on the first, and a 84 on the second. With only three days to go in the class I went from failing to a 87%. I needed a 96 on the final to pull out with an A. I scored a 92% and finished with a 89% which she did not bump. The moral of this story is I had to love myself in F’s and in A’s. Its true that you can’t win them all, but you must trust that if this is the course that is truly destined for your life, then you will succeed. I simply refused to believe anything contrary to that, no matter what my test score said. I believe thats called self fullfilling prophecy/manifestation. I think my mom, who is my sole financial support after quitting my job as an insurance broker, said it best: “You may have failed the test, but you haven’t failed.” Keep moving forward! one last thought, and then its back to the books, Bio exam at 8:30 am- “The best feeling is the feeling after fear.” Contemplate that the next time you go in a test, feel the adrenaline, savory it, do your test, and wait for the high of knowing you succeeded. It’s the ultimate rush!!!
Andrea