I might be wrong but why do so many chiropractists disguise info and deceive patients? It seems like all they care about is money and they seem to have no compassion. I know a person who goes to chiropractic school and she was told that chiropractists can even cure cancer. That being said, chiropractists think that they are also physicians especially equivalent level to D.O. A friend of mine who also goes to chiropractic school tells some people that she's in med school and one day she told me it would be great if I become D.O. someday b/c D.C. = D.O. ?? Not there is anything wrong with equality but I think it's ridiculous to compare these type of educational degrees and determine which one is superior or inferior because it's like comparing apples and oranges which are more delicious. I also heard chiropractic students or wannabes talking about how they are going to be rich and their salary range will be between $200K-$300K. I assume that those who make that much money are the ones who are really good at business or lying to patients. But is this true?
| QUOTE (Fundee @ Jun 22 2003, 11:17 PM) |
| I might be wrong but why do so many chiropractists disguise info and deceive patients? It seems like all they care about is money and they seem to have no compassion. I know a person who goes to chiropractic school and she was told that chiropractists can even cure cancer. That being said, chiropractists think that they are also physicians especially equivalent level to D.O. A friend of mine who also goes to chiropractic school tells some people that she's in med school and one day she told me it would be great if I become D.O. someday b/c D.C. = D.O. ?? Not there is anything wrong with equality but I think it's ridiculous to compare these type of educational degrees and determine which one is superior or inferior because it's like comparing apples and oranges which are more delicious. I also heard chiropractic students or wannabes talking about how they are going to be rich and their salary range will be between $200K-$300K. I assume that those who make that much money are the ones who are really good at business or lying to patients. But is this true? |
Hi there,
I have yet to encounter a chiropractor with admitting privledges to any of the hospitals that I have been affiliated with. I have yet to encounter a chiropractor in any of my residency programs or interviewing for any of the residencies that I interviewed for last year.
On the other hand, I have and do encounter and interact with many DOs who have admitting privledges at the hospitals that I have been affiliated with. I also encountered plenty of DOs on the interview trail interviewing for the same residencies that I interviewed for. I have yet to refer a patient to a chiropractor for any treatment. I refer patients to DOs on a daily basis.
Therefore, since I work in a major university hospital and encounter DOs every day and encounter no chiropractors, I have to conclude that they are not the same as a DO nor are recognized by ACGME or AOA as the equivalent of a DO. Chiropractic manipulation is not even recognized as alternative medical care and is not reimbursed by Medicare or Medicaid.
Your chiropractic buddies may totally believe that they are the equivalent of a DO but the AMA, AOA, HCFA, and the Boards of Medicine in all 50 states do not agree with them.
Natalie
Thanks Natalie,
I just get frustruated when my other friends believe what chiropractic people say about themselves which are mostly misleading info I don't agree with.
Nat, your post is a slam dunk…subtly of course.
I ask one question because I am not following what you are saying. You said you refer to D.O.'s all the time, (I know you said everyday, but I find it a stretch that you are doing referrals on your days off 
). For what purpose is a GenSurg referring to a D.O.? Are these people coming in with MuscSkel problems that a DO could work on with OMT? Curious…
She’s referring to her DO colleagues who populate every specialty & subspecialty out there…far beyond the narrow cofines of “musculoskeletal” ailments.
| QUOTE (futrfysician @ Jun 24 2003, 01:20 AM) |
| For what purpose is a GenSurg referring to a D.O.? Are these people coming in with MuscSkel problems that a DO could work on with OMT? |
This floored me a bit, coming from you, Joe. DOs are just docs, of course. When Dave gets a referral, it will be for pain management or to provide sedation/analgesia as an anesthesiologist. The nephrologist gets referrals from GS to assist with renal failure; the cardiologist with heart problems; the pulmonologist with lung problems...
Some DOs I regularly consult: our Chief of Nephrology, one of our Infectious Disease specialist, many of our Internists, Cardiology...
In the total body of chiropractic knowledge, there is about 10% legit info and 90% thats total nonsense.
Chiropractors can help for some lower back pain conditions, but thats about it and even then its impossible to compare chiropractic to placebo so for all we know they are just benefitting their patients via placebo.
In the very beginning of modern american medicine, DOs and DCs were much much more similar than they are today. Now, the difference is that DOs choose to rigorously evaluate their methods with science and DCs largely shun science and rely on personal anecdote.
Going to a chiropractor helps for some conditions, but its the same as going to a massage therapist or a DO who has been trained with OMT.
Chiropractors are calling for prescription rights and expansion of scope into MD/DO territory in many states.
| QUOTE (futrfysician @ Jun 23 2003, 08:20 PM) |
| Nat, your post is a slam dunk...subtly of course. I ask one question because I am not following what you are saying. You said you refer to D.O.'s all the time, (I know you said everyday, but I find it a stretch that you are doing referrals on your days off ). For what purpose is a GenSurg referring to a D.O.? Are these people coming in with MuscSkel problems that a DO could work on with OMT? Curious... |
Hey JP,
My primary care doc is a DO. I refer my self to him on my days off for that maintenence stuff that all 50-year-olds have to undergo. He don't do any manipulations on me other than bitch about my weight and how I don't call him unless I am death's door. Hint: Staying away from doctor's offices is a good way to stay healthy. There are sick people there.
Natalie
Interesting topic. I know that in my state DCs are arguing for the right to give nutrient injections. An argument that has, for the time being, fallen on deaf ears. In addition, I have heard that some DCs here want to start a naturopathic school of medicine. Who knows what that will entail.
Bill
My experience with chiropractors has always been good. I go to one now for pt for my knee. The others I have seen (for back issues and neck/stress issues) have also been great. During the Gore 2000 campaign I found I was really stressed out and my neck got so bad (that’s where most of my stress ends up) that I couldn’t turn my head and I saw a bunch of different ones around the country. None said they were MDs or DOs and all were helpful. I am not saying that is the case for everyone in that field but not all chiropractors are money grubbing liars. 
Studies show that 90% of all back/neck pain goes away on its own, in teh same amount of time as if the person goes to a chiropractor for help.
People like chiropractors because it feels good in many cases to have your spine adjusted.
But thats all it is–just a feel good measure. Same thing as massage therapy.
…
Hi all,
I am a chiropractor and I can say for a fact that chiropractors are reimbursed for manipulation under Medicare and Medicaid as well under many managed care plans. At the clinic I worked at, this constituted about 50% of our patient population. The rest were workers’ compensation and personal injury cases. Some paid cash.
Little known facts:
- Medicare actually consider chiropractors to be physicians.
- Law passed a couple years ago requiring the integration of chiropractors into all branches of the armed forces and VA.
Anyways, I find it interesting how much interest there is in what chiropractors do in pre-med boards and how much misinformation there is. The person that Fundee describes is also very much misinformed (to put it politely). I’d be very afraid to find out what chiropractic school she’s going to. That said, there are chiropractors who do utilize questionable and inappropriate therapies and mismanage patients in the pursuit of $$. The majority, know their limits. Most chiropractors I know (and believe me, I know many) limit their practices to musculoskeletal conditions. It’s a shame that the bad apples seem to be more vocal in their wild claims and constantly pull down the profession. Actually, my practice was very much physical therapy. From neck pain to ankle sprains. I used physical modalities, therapeutic exercises, braces and supports, joint mobilizations and manipulations. Well, I’m just glad that I am finally on my way to becoming a “real” doctor.
I believe the statistic about neckpain/backpain going away on it's own, in the same amount of time with or without treatment, is true. However, I also seem to remember it having come up in a lunch bag seminar about evidence-based medicine that similiar statistics are true for MANY of the ailments that MD/DOs treat, especially the sort of things many of us who will in primary care fields will treat. (I'm on vacation, so I'm NOT going to dig out the handout unless someone is REALLY interested). But the point was also made that as physicians our job is to make the patient feel better. If by providing reassurance we've made the patient feel better, haven't we done our job, even if physically they would have gotten better in the same amount of time?
By extension then, if a chiropractor makes a patient feel better, even if by placebo, hasn't the patient benefitted? (Of course, I'm assuming that no other treatment is needed, so the patient isn't denied needed, appropriate, treatment). Just a thought to chew on.
Regarding the payment by Medicaid for chiropractors, things may have changed, but when I left the military last year, my Tricare benefits (the military HMO, essentially the same as Medicare in regard to what the provider gets reimbursed, and the rules for providers), specifically denied coverage of chiropractic care.
In contrast, the military is heavily populated with DOs, who are, of course, equal with MDs in every respect. All government scholarships (military and National Health Corps) are open equally to osteopatic and allopathic students. I've never seen a government offered chiropractic scholarship.
Epidoc
SECOND YEAR medical student
(That still sounds so nice)
Hi Epidoc,
Yes, that is correct, Tricare still does not cover chiropractic to my understanding. And yes, government scholarships have nearly been non-existent for chiropractic students. Currently the NHSC is conducting a demonstration project for chirorpractors and pharmacists. See the link below.
NHSC chiropractor and pharmacist loan repayment
The integration into the military is currently being sorted out. The bill that was passed allowed five years before full implementation of chiropractic care.
chiropractic benefit for military
I believe in NY chiropractic care has to be covered by insurance. A big reason I went to so many (my job for the Gore campaign was to travel and set up events) was because it was covered by insurance. They also helped me structure an exercise routine that was better for my neck and back.