I apologize if this has been posted already but I did not see it in a search …
When you become a DO student should you plan on taking just the COMLEX? I read somewhere to be competitive you should take the USMLE as well.
If you do decide to take both, are the tests completely different? Do you need to take a Kaplan COMLEX, and then a Kaplan USMLE?
Do you have to take the STEP 1, 2, and 3 for both? That would be a lot of studying.
Do you take them back to back or spaced out?
Sorry about all the questions, just trying to get a feel on what needs to be done if and when I get there.
Thanks for your replies in advance.
Thomas
you only have to take the USMLE if you plan on appling to a MD residency. The two tests are very similar and are taken in the same time frame so there really isn’t much more studing.
I am NOT a medical student nor physician. My comments are based on a sociological perspective.
I just went through a long thread on SDN on why DO student tend to score lower on USMLE. My perception is that DO students who take the USMLE can classify to at least 3 types based on “attitude”
Those who prep/consider USMLE more important than COMLEX
Those who prep/consider USMLE as important than COMLEX
Those who prep/consider USMLE less important than COMLEX.
There is probably a 4th group of those who take but do little if any prep
My guess would be that the first and second group would probably test at or near the same level as MD, but it would take a survey to prove it; I cant use existing data to show it.
The other perception I have is the myth and perceptions that premeds, med students, and residents have about competitiveness in residency. In anesthesiology programs in 2009, 4.2% of MD students and 3.8% of DO students match into allopathic residencies. There seems to be myth that it is so much more difficult for DO students and I am finding only a minor disadvantage. Some surveys show, for example, in EM that residency directors consider school type about 14th-15th factor of 20 when deciding on students.
My overall theory is that the misperceptions / bias of DO that many premeds have is retained by many in medical school but is greatly lessened by the time residency is done.
if you are a student in an allopathic medical school you have to take USMLE. If you are an osteopathic medical student then you have to take the COMLEX, you have the option to take the USMLE regardless if you apply to an allopathic residency program or not.
There are allopathic programs that will accept COMLEX only.
What then is the difference, content wise that makes them different. Does the COMPLEX contain an OMM/OMT section? what type of allopathic residency would require the COMPLEX only? Just curious as i am still quite new to the nuances of USMLE/COMPLEX
Thank you
- tbcnm Said:
you only have to take the USMLE if you plan on appling to a MD residency. The two tests are very similar and are taken in the same time frame so there really isn't much more studing.
Sorry, but this is completely incorrect. Allopathic medical schools require the USMLE & osteopathic medical schools require the COMLEX. The exam series you take is predominantly determined by the type of medical school you attend.
Regarding similarities/differences: very similar exams. For all practical intents & purposes, the COMLEX is essentially the USMLE + OMM/DO-specific stuff (philosophy, sorta).
There are very few ACGME programs that will not accept the COMLEX. In fact, since the 2 exam series are considered legally equivalent for physician licensing, I am not sure that an ACGME program can refuse the COMLEX.
The question is, will you be a competitive applicant to that ACGME program (or speciality) submitting only a COMLEX score? With few exceptions, yes, you will be fine. The exceptions will be your ultra-competitive stuff: ortho, neurosurg, ophtho, maybe derm & anesthesia. Within certain less-than-ultra-competiti ve specialties there may still be ultra-competitive individual programs where a COMLEX-only based app may hinder you...call the programs themselves to find out. But, those are rare & becoming rarer!
Thanks for all your responses.
Here is another question. If you take the COMLEX and pass, and then decide to take the USMLE and you don’t pass that, is that recorded anywhere?
If you take the USMLE, do you have to take all three STEPS as well?
Thanks
comlex is very clinical while usmle is very scientific based. You get more questions about how to treat on the comlex and more questions about mechanisms on the usmle
- In reply to:
Here is another question. If you take the COMLEX and pass, and then decide to take the USMLE and you don't pass that, is that recorded anywhere?
Yes, it is recorded and you have to report it. Fear of failing USMLE (as well as cost) is a major reason I've heard from DO students for not taking it.
- In reply to:
If you take the USMLE, do you have to take all three STEPS as well?
I don't believe so. I have seen posts by quite a few students who only took step 1 or step 2.
On the EM residency forum over at SDN, they highly encourage DO applicants to MD residency programs to take USMLE. The rationale is this: most of the applicants are MD applicants, so having a USMLE score for all candidates makes comparison easier (since the two exams use completely different scoring systems). Also, they claim that MD program directors are also not as familiar with what a "good" score on the COMLEX is (as compared to the USMLE).
Although most allopathic EM residencies accept COMLEX, the general vibe from DO grads was that you are absolutely more competitive if you take USMLE and do well.
- Emergency! Said:
- In reply to:
Here is another question. If you take the COMLEX and pass, and then decide to take the USMLE and you don't pass that, is that recorded anywhere?
Yes, it is recorded and you have to report it. Fear of failing USMLE (as well as cost) is a major reason I've heard from DO students for not taking it.
- In reply to:
If you take the USMLE, do you have to take all three STEPS as well?
I don't believe so. I have seen posts by quite a few students who only took step 1 or step 2.
On the EM residency forum over at SDN, they highly encourage DO applicants to MD residency programs to take USMLE. The rationale is this: most of the applicants are MD applicants, so having a USMLE score for all candidates makes comparison easier (since the two exams use completely different scoring systems). Also, they claim that MD program directors are also not as familiar with what a "good" score on the COMLEX is (as compared to the USMLE).
Although most allopathic EM residencies accept COMLEX, the general vibe from DO grads was that you are absolutely more competitive if you take USMLE and do well.
Just to add something, as I have been "discussing" this on SDN for both anesthesiology and EM on the perceived disadvantage that DO have when competing for residencies. In a recent survey of all EM residency directors, where they were asked to rank the importance of factors when considering candidates, school type (MD or DO) was 15th of 20, the bottom quarter of factors). In anesthesiology , the 2009 match data showed 4.2% of MD matched into allopathic anesthesiology while 3.8% of DO did the same. So 42 per 1000 MD and 38 per 1000 DO.
- In reply to:
Just to add something, as I have been "discussing" this on SDN for both anesthesiology and EM on the perceived disadvantage that DO have when competing for residencies. In a recent survey of all EM residency directors, where they were asked to rank the importance of factors when considering candidates, school type (MD or DO) was 15th of 20, the bottom quarter of factors). In anesthesiology , the 2009 match data showed 4.2% of MD matched into allopathic anesthesiology while 3.8% of DO did the same. So 42 per 1000 MD and 38 per 1000 DO.
The question for this thread would be how does taking the USMLE factor in to where residency directors rank candidates (versus only the comlex)? Is there any difference in allopathic match rates between DO students who take only the COMLEX vs DO students who also take USMLE?
I don't know if those statistics are out there or not.
There are 3 things that the sociologist in me would love to research.
- the difference between DO and MD scores on USMLE. My guess is that if we could get the of DO students that self-rate USMLE as important or more important than COMLEX and take a USMLE prep course, their scores would be at or near MD level as opposed to the 10%-13% difference that I see cited on SDN. That would take a survey and unlikely to happen
- Seeing if data for scores of those who match with a specialty via applicant type and test type. Data probably exists in that but unreleased match data costs money to get, so I’ll leave that for later.
- There are several studies out there looking at residency selection criteria some of these may have info to gleam.
what got me so hyper on this was the insistence of some gunners on another site who just swore up and done with things like “it is obvious” or “it is well known” that DO are at a great competitive disadvantage for allopathic anesthesiology residency yet the data clearly shows a minor disadvantage at most. I am beginning to suspect that both med school admissions and residency admissions are taking on mythical proportions of misperceptions. Difficult yes but only slightly more so for DO than MD.