while taking ochem 2 and MCAT?
I am still thinking of doing that next summer. This past spring I sat through, and took exams for, the ochem 2 class.
I will be sitting through ochem 1 in the fall, actually taking it in the spring 2010.
Ultimately, I would like to still apply next summer, even though I will have just finished ochem 2 at end of July.
Thoughts? doable? advisable? or will my “late” i.e. august application not do me any good…
EDITED:
That made no sense;
Spring 2009
Gen Chem 1 - took for grade
Ochem 2 - silent auditor, took exams as auditor (silent auditor for me, meant taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Summer 2009
Math - take for grade
ochem 1 - silent auditor when feasible (silent auditor for me, means taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Fall 2009
Gen chem 2 - take for grade
Physics 1 - take for grade
Bio - take for grade
ochem 1 - silent auditor (silent auditor for me, means taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Spring 2009
Ochem 1- take for grade
Physics 2 - take for grade
ochem 2 - silent audit (silent auditor for me, means taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Summer 2010
Ochem 2 - take for grade
MCAT
APPLY in early August
Fall 2010
micro bio
biochem
acceptance?
Spring 2011
ski, boat, see the world again
I love the Spring 2011 part of your plan. Keep it 
Take this with a grain of salt, because it’s just my opinion. Are you working at all this fall/spring? If you are not, just bite the bullet and take Orgo for credit. I think you will waste far too much time auditing when you could have just been getting on with it. Fall would be tough with Chem II (I had Orgo I, Phys I, Bio I last fall) on top of everything else, but it’s definitely doable. I’ll be taking biochem and genetics in the gap year, hoping that I get accepted the first time. We’ll see.
I think you’re probably past the auditing stage. The most helpful tools I found were “Organic I (and II) as a Second Language” and a manual on surviving organic lab. Also, the cartoon guide to physics came in handy.
Good luck!
I don’t like this plan. The reason being is that your Biochem and micro will not even be looked at by the admissions committee because they will still be in process while they review the application. I also feel you should take more Bio electives to build the science GPA. I would recommend delaying an additional year and taking more Bio courses.
I understand what you’re saying. In an ideal world, I agree that it makes sense to do an additional year and fit in more biology courses—like microbio, immunology, animal phys, etc.
I don’t remember the OP’s situation (sorry), so I don’t know if you need more courses to raise your GPA, etc.
In my case, I’m on the 3-yr post-bacc plan which is already long enough for me. If one wants to complete the basic requirements, he/she can take the MCAT and apply to med school the summer before taking biochem and genetics. As far as I know, microbio isn’t a requirement at most med schools, though I would bet it’s helpful.
- SomeDaySomeWay Said:
I carry close to a 4.0 BCPM right now and I'm almost 45.
As for the ochem 1 - I can't take until spring 2010 because of gen chem 2 in the fall. so... i'm sitting through it for "kicks and giggles" - sometimes the more one hears materials, and writes things down, the more one understands. In this case, the "one" is me
My question was application timing, I should have been more precise ... is early August too late?
Do all the prereqs have to be finished before an application can be submitted, or can they be in progress? The AMCAS instruction manual says the following, which makes me think the course could be in progress.
Current/Future
Use this Course Type designation for any courses you are currently taking or expect to take before entering medical school. Listing these courses is especially important if you have not yet ompleted medicalschool prerequisites. No AMCAS grade will be assigned.
If that was the case, I would try to move up your mcat to apply earlier (June 2010). You’ll be busy & juggling studying with coursework whether you take an August MCAT or an April one. You will have already audited ochem 2.
The other thing I was thinking was maybe you could persuade the department to approve taking gchem 2 and ochem 1 concurrently (possibly defer bio to spring 2010 to reduce the load). I know all the “slow and steady” OPMers are probably wanting to come throught the screen and choke me for saying that, but it’s frustrating to be delayed a full year over one class. What happened that you couldn’t take Chem 2 this summer?
- jkp2117 Said:
I am still thinking of doing that next summer. This past spring I sat through, and took exams for, the ochem 2 class.
I will be sitting through ochem 1 in the fall, actually taking it in the spring 2010.
Ultimately, I would like to still apply next summer, even though I will have just finished ochem 2 at end of July.
Thoughts? doable? advisable? or will my "late" i.e. august application not do me any good...
EDITED:
That made no sense;
Spring 2009
Gen Chem 1 - took for grade
Ochem 2 - silent auditor, took exams as auditor (silent auditor for me, meant taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Summer 2009
Math - take for grade
ochem 1 - silent auditor when feasible (silent auditor for me, means taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Fall 2009
Gen chem 2 - take for grade
Physics 1 - take for grade
Bio - take for grade
ochem 1 - silent auditor (silent auditor for me, means taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Spring 2009
Ochem 1- take for grade
Physics 2 - take for grade
ochem 2 - silent audit (silent auditor for me, means taking all notes, working all problems in book, taking exams)
Summer 2010
Ochem 2 - take for grade
MCAT
APPLY in early August
Fall 2010
micro bio
biochem
acceptance?
Spring 2011
ski, boat, see the world again
Where are you going to take Bio 2, remember, you need a year of that too...I only see Bio 1.
Also, doesn't it cost you anything to audit the class, and why are you auditing it twice?
The time you are using to audit these classes, you can use to study the actual credit courses you are taking.
Since you already audited Ochem 2, I would probably just suggest that you take the MCAT in late spring and apply first thing in the season. Then as soon as you have the organic two course done, forwarded it. By the time interview season comes up, your organic two will already be done.
Also, instead of doing so much repetitive auditing, just use that time to review for the MCAT as you will want to make sure that you do really well on that as well.
- AliJ Said:
If that was the case, I would try to move up your mcat to apply earlier (June 2010). You'll be busy & juggling studying with coursework whether you take an August MCAT or an April one. You will have already audited ochem 2.
Yep... already audited ochem 2 and understood a fair amount of it. Could I get an "A" based on what I know? No. But I did not study that much either for it focusing instead on my registered classes.
- AliJ Said:
I like the combo gchem 2 and ochem1 in same semester... plus physics 1.
Then in spring 2010 I'd have ochem 2, phys 2, bio.
Summer = MCAT and done until fall where I would take micro and biochem.
Great ideas, Ali - thank you! will have to see how/if they play out.
- Krisss17 Said:
Probably in the fall 2010. The U here does not offer a two semester sequence of general biology. You take one semester general, then move onto micro, genetics, biochem, etc. I'd probably, in the application, use micro or something else for 2nd semester bio + lab.
- Krisss17 Said:
The time you are using to audit these classes, you can use to study the actual credit courses you are taking.
Since you already audited Ochem 2, I would probably just suggest that you take the MCAT in late spring and apply first thing in the season. Then as soon as you have the organic two course done, forwarded it. By the time interview season comes up, your organic two will already be done.
Also, instead of doing so much repetitive auditing, just use that time to review for the MCAT as you will want to make sure that you do really well on that as well.
Most professors that I've asked if I could sit in their classes have been very amenable to it. They are not grading my exams, or doing anything extra, I'm the one putting in the effort. It is called a silent auditor.
I am a believer that the more one hears someting from different vantage points, the better one will understand.
I ace'd my courses last semester (okay, 1 A-) so I'm not overly worried about the time I spend in class, taking notes, reviewing models, playing with flash cards. More concerned about making sure I really understand the material for the MCAT.
All that said, I do like your ideas too. I was just not sure if I could apply with one of the required courses in progress. Since it appears that I can, I will probably do that to make sure my application is in earlier.
I assume you are going to be a full-time student then (I hope!), otherwise that is going to be real stressful semester.
Well, normally I would totally oppose the taking gen chem 2 and organic chem together. I knew of a few that had tried that and burned badly. But if you can really feel you can handle it, I wish you the best of luck. BTW, I’m looking forward to going through the application phase together…so for selfish reasons I’m hoping you succeed as well!
In order for me to finish my prereqs as well as take care of my major requirements, I’m going to have to resort to a poor student again. I’m hoping to pick up some tutoring through the science department…make some money, and a good way to review.
- In reply to:
No, they do not have to be completed before you submit the application. I had the last quarter of physics yet to take during the application process. If you are a non-traditional going back taking just pre-reqs, though, you don't want to apply with too many of the pre-reqs missing.
In your situation, I would hold off and take biochem and upper level science classes before applying. Its better to slow down and prepare yourself well. That way, you only have to apply once and may even have the luxury of choosing between multiple acceptances, rather than just one (although you only need one, right?).
First of all, taking gchem 2 and ochem 1 at the same time is a BAD idea. At least at my school, acid/base chemistry is a big part of gchem 2, and so is equilibrium, both of which are used in organic chemistry. Taking the sequence in order, and not doubling up, ensures that you are ready for the process as it comes.
Secondly, you’re going to be competing against younger students that have degrees in hard sciences. While you have unique portions of your application that will help you stand out (just by nature of being a nontrad), its important to back that up with solid academic performance, including upper level classes that other students have taken as a part of their majors. It says that you are committed and ready for the rigors of medical school.
Prerequisites are minimums. Excellent performance in those is essential, but taking a few extra upper levels follows that up, and shows AdComs that you can handle even more difficult stuff. One year isn’t going to make much of a difference. Besides, maybe you could see a little bit more of the world.
Just my 2 cents.
- somedayDrA Said:
LOL - my passport has no unused pages
I'm well traveled.I hear what you are saying... I'm not sure the school would let me double up anyway... but I think I will follow what Emergency said and probably take ochem 2 next summer and apply while that's in progress.
Applying at 46 has something appealing to me...
Not to change the subject, but I have never heard of being a silent auditor. Is that something a lot of people do?
In reguards to your post, I think it’s best to take your time even though waiting is horrible. It is better to take your time and do well, then to hurry and blow your chances completely.
I think the point was lost:
I was hoping for feedback on timing of my application in August vs. early July and whether or not that would make a difference. My pace suits me just fine and was thought out before I registered for class one.
As for being a silent auditor, on some other pre-med forums, its advised. I like it because it gives me some frame of reference for time management. To be fair to others, however, I ask the professor if she/he minds.
To each their own, however.
JKP, there are two thoughts to this…applying earlier in the application season is best. This allows the time necessary to get your application verified, so that it will be one of the first applications viewed by the adcoms of the schools you applied to. The other is to make sure that you have all of your prereqs and MCAT done by the time the application lands on the desk(s) of the adcoms.
I do agree with SomeDayDrA, and for you not to take both chem 2 and organic chem 1 at the same time.
At the same time on your application you will write what classes are in progress (i.e. Organic Chem 2 in the summer, and whatever additional sciences in the fall/spring of your next year of class).
Best of luck!
- Krisss17 Said:
At the same time on your application you will write what classes are in progress (i.e. Organic Chem 2 in the summer, and whatever additional sciences in the fall/spring of your next year of class).
So, no matter when I apply, the adcoms won't see my app until it is complete; ala, the required pre-regs?
Thanks, all. I do appreciate the feedback on my pact, course selection, what-not, in this particular instance I was just hoping for feedback on the app process and what adcoms see, what they demand to see, etc.
Thanks again!
- In reply to:
Yes and no. A "complete" application includes having your AMCAS submitted and verified (AMCAS does not send your application out to the schools until they have received all of your transcripts and reconciled it with your application), having your MCAT score, having a complete secondary, and all of your LORs arrive at the school. Not having all of the pre-reqs done will NOT delay making your application complete. All schools will require an official transcript to prove that you have completed all of your required coursework prior to matriculating. What a lot of people do if they decide to submit with some pre-reqs pending is send an updated transcript to the schools when those courses are complete.
As mentioned before - I applied without having completed the last quarter of physics. So - physics was marked as a "will take" class. I actually chose NOT to send an updated transcript during the application year for two reasons: 1 - I had already received decisions from most of the schools I had applied to before my fall quarter grades were out and 2 - I didn't do so hot in biochem (so sending an update with the C in biochem and the A in physics wasn't going to help me).
On another note - applying in June vs August (when your summer grades are in): Yes, of course it’s advisable to apply as early as possible. However, you have to weigh for yourself the pros and cons of having a late application and having to reapply. I always tell people to apply early if possible. However, it’s not always possible. I took summer ochem and the August MCAT - I felt I needed both of those things on my application, so I applied late (I don’t think my application was complete at a couple of schools until the end of October). It certainly would have been nice to do some interviews early, but I ended up with acceptances at 5 schools. I know another OPMer who also applied late (even later than me, I think) who landed acceptances at several schools.
So - I certainly don’t ENCOURAGE people to apply late, but you have to decide if you would rather take the risk of having to reapply (and forking out a lot of cash) vs sitting out another year when you might have been accepted.
One other consideration - applications to medical school (and all graduate schools in general) are predicted to be up again this year thanks to the poor economy.
I don’t think you would be at a great disadvantage applying in August. I would guess that in Aug/Sept the AdComs are focusing on reviewing the early decision pool of applicants, giving them a call by mid-Oct. After that round, they turn more of their attention to the general pool. Just my 2 cents.
How’s this for crazy? I think I’m only applying to one school this year…