Looking for advice on structuring a DIY post-bac program. I have previously taken all the prerequisites with the exception of organic II and bio II. All my undergrad work is over 10 years old.
I would think it makes sense to retake chemistry and biology, and physics. What other courses make sense to add in? Math, anatomy, micro, ect???
What have others done??
Before you take Gen Chem or Physics, make sure your algebra and trig are up to snuff (you only need Trig for Physics). After the basic pre-reqs, you can add cell biology, genetics, biochemistry, or immunology to give yourself a tiny little boost in school.
I STRONGLY echo Denise’s comments. I saw many students struggle in the science courses because their math skills weren’t set.
I think retaking the courses is a good idea as it will be very helpful in taking the MCAT–plus many (most?) schools will require more recent coursework anyway. Take a look at the schools in which you’re interested in attending to find out their requirements as far as the timeline of courses, as well as specific course requirements (for example, some require calculus).
My classmates and I have spoken often about wishing biochem had been required prior to starting at our institution (something that changed the year after we began). I took it the spring before I started med school and was happy I did. I also took genetics, molecular biology, and physiology in med school which I think were very helpful. The one course I REALLY wish I had taken prior to med school is one you listed–anatomy. The vocab list is so extensive for that course–had I even remembered 20% out a post-bacc course I would have been that much ahead of the game once med school started. As you may have read in others’ posts–taking in the amount of info the require in med school is like trying to drink from a fire hose.
Best of luck!
I’m planning to take Chem I, Bio I, Physics I, and Calc I in the fall. I have previously taken all of these courses. My first choice of Med School does require 2 semesters of Math. I have also noticed more schools requiring additional biology courses as well.
I hoping put together a program that best demonstrates my ability, but yet don’t want to waste time taking classes that don’t provide any benefit.
- peterhass Said:
I'm planning to take Chem I, Bio I, Physics I, and Calc I in the fall. I have previously taken all of these courses. My first choice of Med School does require 2 semesters of Math. I have also noticed more schools requiring additional biology courses as well.
I hoping put together a program that best demonstrates my ability, but yet don’t want to waste time taking classes that don’t provide any benefit.
I hoping put together a program that best demonstrates my ability, but yet don’t want to waste time taking classes that don’t provide any benefit.
That is a VERY HEAVY courseload you are taking...how long has it been since you've been in school? I understand that you want to move forward, but you want to move forward in the best possible light. Remember, not only are you taking the lecture courses of approx. 3 hrs a week, but also a lab for each at the same, PLUS 4 hours of math. I understand the 2 math classes, but why calculus? Had you already taken college algebra and trigonometry?
I definitely hope that you are not planning on working at the same time...why can't you wait to take either physics or biology next year when you have to take organic chemistry?
Can anyone else comment?
I notice that the OP said he had previously taken all of those courses. Since this isn’t his first time looking at the material, it should be a little easier for him and he should have a pretty good idea of the time commitment involved in those courses.
It IS a heavy course load, doable for some people, way too much for other people. I actually took pretty much the exact same course load for two quarters. I had two reasons for doing so: One, I felt that with my low undergrad GPA, I needed to prove to med schools (and myself) that I could handle a heavy science load. Two - I wanted to squeeze everything is as quickly as possible.
OP - If you did well in physics the first time around, you can probably get away with not retaking it, as long as you feel comfortable reviewing the material on your own for the MCAT. Biology should definitely be up to date. For the chemistry, I guess it depends on whether or not you feel like you retained enough of it to have a good foundation for ochem. If not, then retaking is a good idea. Calc probably isn’t necessary (although a couple of schools “recommend” it), especially not as a retake. If you were wanting to take a math course that would help you out, I would recommend statistics.
My two cents - YMMV. 
Emergency! Maybe you could say a little bit about your experience with this particular load. I am going to register for these exact courses (minus the calc) in the fall next year as a diagnostic semester – might throttle it back for spring semester if it proves too much. Never had a problem with academics in the past, and, much like you I would like to “prove myself” not to mention get on with things. Not planning on working so I think with some late nights it is doable.
I understand that people want to do what they can as fast as possible, but I really caution you to proceed cautiously. If you know you are going to have to take 4 semesters (to cover the 4 chemistry classes), why not take two sciences each semester instead of 3 for each of the first and 1 for the last two. Isn’t it better to take the two science classes, do really well than to take too much where you might find yourself over your head. Right now, you might think that you have all the time because you are not working, but you never know what might come along. Believe me, I’m saying this from experience…had I not over done things a few years ago (and I am a good student), I would be a lot further than I am now.
Hello
OP, my situation was very similar to yours. I had taken all of the pre-reqs close to 30 years ago, and had done well in all of them.
In repeating the pre-reqs, I decided I wanted to prove to myself and any eventual adcoms I could handle a stiff load. Since I had gotten good grades originally, I told myself I had to get at least as good, if not better, grades. Doing so would convince me I still had ‘academic gutso’! Getting lesser grades than originally would be for me ‘a warning signal’.
On the recomendation ‘not to move forward too quickly’, I do think this is a prudent choice, but it is also a two edged sword. On the one hand, proceding cautiously, slowly & steadily, is a good approach to maximize grades prior to applying to med school. However, my thinking as I was doing the pre-reqs was that if I went about this cautiously, I may not be properly evaluating my ability to handle the rigors of med school. In other words, I didn’t want to be in a situation where I succeeded well using a cautious aproach doing the pre-reqs, and failed in med school because of a significantly steeper load.
I am glad I took a ‘not too cautious approach’.
Med school is tough, tougher, in my humble view, than a semester of: 3 basic sciences + 3 labs + calculus. Doing well with this kind of load will be a better barometer of your ability to do well in med school than doing well with a lighter load.
Your question related to what other courses would make sense, in addition to the minimal requirements. The additional courses I took included: 4 credits of histology, 6 credits human physiology, 3 credits of cell & molecular biology, 3 credits of an additional (3rd) physics (required in canada). I also took a 400-level German litterature course to fill up one semester. Courses I wish I had taken are: biochemistry, anatomy. It took me three semesters full-time to complete my DIY post-bac program. Fortunately, I did not have to work during this period.
The business of doing well academically prior to med school, getting accepted, then doing well while in med school is indeed a tricky business. Succeeding in pre-reqs but eventually failing out of med school has, sadly enough, been known to happen. The above is a glimpse as to what guided me in this process. Proceed with caution, and good luck!
Ron
½ MD
I think the varied comments here really show the diversity of nontraditional students and approaches to the journey. My advice would be to have a true understanding of your capabilities and limitations and from there determine your course. While many students on this forum are from non-science backgrounds or have had some difficulty with undergraduate coursework the first time around, this is not true of all. I don’t think it’s inappropriate to take either a heavy or lighter courseload–my advice, again, would be to make an honest assessment of your abilities.
I found the load of medical school to be exponentially more intense than that of undergrad or post-bacc, and I took a fairly heavy load in post-bacc. Anything to help prepare yourself for that would be beneficial. At the same time, solid performance in your post-bacc work is critical.
Agreed - I thought that my two quarters of 20 credits of math/science (3 science with labs) and my taking the entire year of ochem with labs in an 8 week summer session would prepare me well for medical school. That is, I thought that if I could handle that load, I would be able to handle medical school. As it turns out, I failed the very first exam in medical school, and really struggled throughout my first year. The summer ochem was pretty close in intensity to medical school, but the 20 credit hour quarters were nowhere near as difficult.
Again, your course load is doable for some people. The prudent advice is always to tell people not to bite off more than they can chew, and I think that is generally sound advice. My first quarter back, I actually only took two courses to kind of get back into the swing of things, and I’m glad. IF you feel you are capable of the heavy load, so be it, but I always advise people to stay on top of drop/add deadlines and what their grade is and be prepared to drop early if they find they can’t handle the load without jeopardizing their grades.
- Emergency! Said:
IF you feel you are capable of the heavy load, so be it, but I always advise people to stay on top of drop/add deadlines and what their grade is and be prepared to drop early if they find they can't handle the load without jeopardizing their grades.
Great advice. Looking forward to the challenge. Thanks.
Everyone, thank you for the advice. I am sort of reconsidering calculus. I did reasonably well when I took calc I, II and III. I will not be working, other than volunteer/shadowing.
I will be using this process as MCAT prep as well, so calc may not be the best use of my time.
- peterhass Said:
Everyone, thank you for the advice. I am sort of reconsidering calculus. I did reasonably well when I took calc I, II and III. I will not be working, other than volunteer/shadowing.
I will be using this process as MCAT prep as well, so calc may not be the best use of my time.
I will be using this process as MCAT prep as well, so calc may not be the best use of my time.
I don't understand. If you had finished the calculus sequence, why would you have to take this for your degree (as mentioned in your opening post)?
I think it is a smart decision as it will be the sciences that will weigh more heavily on your application.
The only reason I would take it is that it’s often a prereq and demonstration of ability. In hindsight, it appears that taking calc probably would not do much to bolster my app or help on the MCAT.
I’m thinking anatomy might be a better choice.
Actually, instead of anatomy, taking physiology (unless they are linked) would serve you better with the MCAT.
As to whether calculus is prereq or not, depends on the medical schools you are applying to. Since you’ve already taken Calc I-III, you are way ahead of the curve.
Even if a school requires calc as a pre-req (and not that many of them do), most of them would probably not require you to retake it just because of it’s age. You could always retake it during the year you are applying if you find that you are applying to schools that both require it and want you to repeat it. Schools are going to be far more interested in the science courses.
Since we are kicking around the calculus question I’ll ask one of my own. When calculating the BCPM GPA which math courses are counted towards it? Calc was hard for me when I took it a few years ago, but with all my study since then I could take it again and ace it. I’ve completed both calc I&II, nothing impressive to report grade wise. Would it be worth it to retake?
- Acct_to_MD Said:
Since we are kicking around the calculus question I'll ask one of my own. When calculating the BCPM GPA which math courses are counted towards it? Calc was hard for me when I took it a few years ago, but with all my study since then I could take it again and ace it. I've completed both calc I&II, nothing impressive to report grade wise. Would it be worth it to retake?
I would think that it would be any math classes you took through the math department...not your accounting classes.
As for the retake, unless you failed the class (D or less), I wouldn't. Remember for AMCAS it will be averaged versus replaced like AACOMAS...plus only science classes are used for AACOmAS.
I think taking an advanced science would be more helpful than retaking a math class.
According to the instructions for 2010, Applied Mathematics, Mathematics, and Statistics classes will count towards BCPM. This indeed does not include things such as accounting. I have found the instruction book available on aamc.org in .pdf to be helpful to answer questions about gpa calculations and such. There’s a link to it on this page:
http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2 010.htm
Mike