Hello all,
Before I delve into my situation, I seem to recall another person(s) on OPM with a similar dilemma so maybe the advice that was offered to him will be the same for me. To begin, I just turned forty and received an undergraduate degree in Biology in the 1990’s. Unfortunately, (and I will sound very cliche) I had my share of personal problems that hindered my performance in my prereqs. I graduated with a less than stellar “C” average. Years have passed and old troubles are gone for good and after completing a post-bacc for teaching in Secondary Mathematics with a 3.4 GPA and a Master’s Degree with a 3.6 GPA, I really want to fulfill my dream of becoming a doctor. My question to those who can answer this question is this: Can this be done? And if so, do you suggest a second Bachelor’s in the sciences that demonstrates my true ability or should I investigate the post-bacc or second Master’s route? I’ve had friends who went the post-bacc route who had similar grades and now they are physicians. As a side note, I attended a graduate school fair at my old college and inquired about the PA program. It was suggested to me by a counselor to get another Bachelor’s Degree. Your thoughts or suggestions please.
- Invictus Said:
Before I delve into my situation, I seem to recall another person(s) on OPM with a similar dilemma so maybe the advice that was offered to him will be the same for me. To begin, I just turned forty and received an undergraduate degree in Biology in the 1990's. Unfortunately, (and I will sound very cliche) I had my share of personal problems that hindered my performance in my prereqs. I graduated with a less than stellar "C" average. Years have passed and old troubles are gone for good and after completing a post-bacc for teaching in Secondary Mathematics with a 3.4 GPA and a Master's Degree with a 3.6 GPA, I really want to fulfill my dream of becoming a doctor. My question to those who can answer this question is this: Can this be done? And if so, do you suggest a second Bachelor's in the sciences that demonstrates my true ability or should I investigate the post-bacc or second Master's route? I've had friends who went the post-bacc route who had similar grades and now they are physicians. As a side note, I attended a graduate school fair at my old college and inquired about the PA program. It was suggested to me by a counselor to get another Bachelor's Degree. Your thoughts or suggestions please.
Generally, a second bachelors degree is unnecessary and can divert time, money, and resources from your direct goal. You would likely be better served from a good post-bacc (formal or DIY) and/or a masters post-bacc. If you are also considering PA, there are usually a few additional courses that they expect you have (microbiology) so a DIY-PB would allow to get those.
Thanks for the information. I agree that another Bachelor’s is generally time consuming and a drain on resources. In my nervousness in writing this post I forgot to mention that in 2000 I took courses in Anatomy Physiology II, Microbiology, Ecology and Physical Anthropology at one of the local Community Colleges and received “A’s” in all these courses.
go for a post-bacc
as for chances, I always say the same thing
If you don’t do premed and apply, your chances are nada, zero, zilch
But if you do well in a postbacc, get a good score on the MCAT, put together a super application, and blow away the interview, you might (I said might) get into medical school.
anyway who tells you different is blowing sunshine up your …
As for someone in your same shoes, let me offer some words of encouragement.
I’m 31 and in the same boat. I finished my B.A. several years ago…barely. I mean BARELY. I just didn’t care about school at the time and I had a lot of personal junk I was going through too, which in the end actually made for an awesome personal statement I’ll be submitting to med school.
Anyway, I went back to grad school a few years ago and got a masters degree and ended with a 4.0 GPA, because I was in an entirely different situation - older, more serious about school, and just more mature.
I plan to apply to med school next year after I retake a few of the undergraduate courses I got D’s and F’s in. I’ll still be applying with less than a 3.0 GPA and I’m not worried about it.
I am applying to D.O. and not M.D., since D.O. is notorious for not being as “strict” on your grades, as well as using a more holistic approach to reviewing applicants.
My point is, don’t let people tell you you can’t get in with whatever GPA or MCAT score. I can’t believe how many posts I read where people are saying, “oh you don’t have at least a 3.4 GPA, you can forget about getting in.”
It all depends on you and what you do to prove yourself. Go look at the site that shows the admissions statistics for med school applicants and you’ll find plenty with less than stellar GPAs and MCAT scores.
Don’t give up and don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do it for whatever reason. Sure, maybe you won’t get in the first go-around. So apply again. And then apply again.
- In reply to:
Just a note - there is nothing at all wrong with the DO route, but I get tired of seeing people think that DO is their only option because they had poor original UG grades. First, it indirectly implies that DO schools are for those who aren't good enough for MD schools, which isn't true at all. Second, I think people are limiting themselves unnecessarily. Myself and several others on here were accepted to very good MD schools with undergrad GPA's around 3.0 or lower. In most cases, it is NOT true that you will automatically get screened out because of your GPA. You are probably more likely to get screened out because of a low MCAT score than a GPA. By and large, most medical schools take a look at the entire application, and if they see that you did very well in coursework recently, they will consider that.
In short, do your best to make a strong application and then apply widely to whatever schools fit your needs best (location, philosophy, whatever) including BOTH DO and MD.
Hey Emergency,
Good points in your statement. I agree that you can certainly get into an M.D. school with lower than average grades.
I just wanted to clarify that I didn’t mean to imply that D.O. was an “easier” way out or that it was in any way inferior to M.D.
I’m going the D.O. route for several reasons, not just because my UG grades were lower. Mainly, I believe in the D.O. holistic philosophy to medical care, as well as my intention of going into family practice - which I’m sure you already know, most D.O.'s go into GP specialties.
- FutureDoctorB Said:
Good points in your statement. I agree that you can certainly get into an M.D. school with lower than average grades.
I just wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to imply that D.O. was an "easier" way out or that it was in any way inferior to M.D.
I'm going the D.O. route for several reasons, not just because my UG grades were lower. Mainly, I believe in the D.O. holistic philosophy to medical care, as well as my intention of going into family practice - which I'm sure you already know, most D.O.'s go into GP specialties.
It should be noted that last year, on an applicant to seat ratio, it was more competitive to get into DO school (2.7 applicants per seat) than it was MD school (2.2 applicants per seat). Part of this seems to be students turning away from MD school believing that they did not have GPA, MCAT, or other factors that would meet acceptance criteria. While it is certainly difficult to get accepted to either MD or DO school, it is perceived by many to be mythically impossible if reading on SDN, OPM, and other sites is any indication. It has reached a point that some MD schools are beginning to recruit in much the same way that DO schools have done all along to try to increase the size and diversity of the applicant pool. It should also be noted that the length and difficulty of medical education and training, the perceived control by insurance and managed care plans over doctors income and reimbursement, and the expansion medical schools in both institutions and seats, are all shrinking the effective applicant to seat ratio in MD schools while the same conditions seem to allow DO applicant pool to increase. This last point may be due to both the effective marketing of DO schools and the integration of DO into "main stream" medicine as well as the wane of off-shore medical schools and their generally decreasing reputation, particularly in their ability to have graduates placed in more competitive residency training programs and to be licensed in all states. However, licensure issue is in flux as several states are considering relaxing licensure restrictions on same schools in order to help with growing physician shortages
- In reply to:
It's all good - I don't think most people mean it that way - I just think that there's a misconception out there that if you don't have certain numbers there's no way you can get into a MD school and you should focus on DO. I especially see that from people on here. If you want to go the DO route because you feel like it's a better fit, or the DO schools are better location wise, or whatever, that's great. (Although it should be noted that DO and MD schools are not quite as far apart idealistically as everyone likes to tout).
Thanks for the info. I was curious to know if OSU had or has a post-bac program. I know of a internal med doctor that I went to undergrad with who attended their school of medicine. Any info or links you could provide would be most appreciated.
Oh and my apologies for the poor grammar in my post. I was reading your response and got somewhat excited I suppose to know that there are so many others out there like me.
You don’t have to do a formal post-bacc program. You can just take the prerequisites at a nice university. Just make sure you know what they are and get super grades. Just one more option to add to the mix. Have fun with it, if you can. It’s a long road; you can’t hold your breath the whole way.
OSU does have a “post-bacc” program, but it’s geared towards minorities and generally offered to those currently applying - i.e. you have to have already taken the pre-reqs and the MCAT and applied.
Something I do think that is helpful for certain med schools is taking your pre-reqs at their affiliated undergraduate institution (if one exists). They are very familiar with the quality of their courses and familiar with many of the recommenders, so a strong LOR can be very valuable. I took most of my pre-reqs through OSU and have no doubt that it helped my application there (nearly 20% of the class in any given year has an UG degree from OSU and there are often others who took the pre-reqs there but did their UG elsewhere).