It was suggested that I start another thread on this topic. I am attaching what I wrote in a previous thread:
Even though I will just start my pre-reqs this Fall, I have already started to research med schools in my area (Broward County, South Florida). One of these schools is Nova Southeastern University (a DO school).
In reply to a previous post, Emergency mentioned:
“If you are a DO grad, you’re going to face more of a challenge trying to match into a MD program. Some MD programs don’t seriously consider DO grads, but a fair amount will.”
The questions below are for anyone (especially DO’s):
Knowing that for DO’s matching into a MD Emergency Medicine residency is difficult, are there as many DO residencies in Emergency Medicine as MD Emergency residencies?
*Do DO’s have a need to apply to a MD Emergency Residency program or are there ample DO residency programs to apply to? How competitive are these DO Emergency Residency programs?
I am just trying to figure out my chances of getting into a Emergency Medicine residency if I graduate from a DO medical school?
Your chances are as good as the next person. No one can give you an answer because there are way too many variables. This past year EM was more competitive than in year’s past. So if this is the new trend for EM there is nothing anyone can say today that should give you any assurances of your chances tomorrow.
This year there were many EM hopefuls with outstanding scores who did not match and these were MD’s. Matching into EM is all about applying broadly and having the personality they are looking for. This advice goes for med school acceptance as well. It’s not just where you go to school or which initials you earned. It’s more about the reputation you’ve earned during rotations, the people you network with, and your attitude…which goes back to your reputation from rotations.
this link describes last year’s match list from Nova. 8 people matched into EM programs, 2-3 of which seem to be osteopathic. You should contact the school to get the latest information, and maybe some current or graduating students from Nova can give you the scoop on how hard it was to match. Nova can probably put you in touch with some of them.
In this day and age, osteopathic programs don’t limit your chances to get into allopathic residencies; as Croooz points out, it’s mainly about your board scores, your performance on rotations and your ability to network and work well on a team and meet the right people who are going to be evaluating you as a candidate for their programs.
I think you are right to be looking at graduate training options but the next few years are going to be about getting in and doing well in your medical school program, be it MD or DO. Best of luck,
Hi Challenger, I am in South Florida too! I live in Miami but work in Fort Lauderdale. I was accepted at NSU-COM but ultimately decided it was not for me. I did have some concerns about the options available to me…Yes, I know that DO’s are for all intents and purposes the same as their as MD colleagues. I know that DO can be considered for allopathic residencies as well as DO schools. I know that everyone knows so-and-so who is a DO is doing well or, more specifically, Dr.Quinn on SDN who graduated from NSU-COM currently works in EM overseeing MD interns or residents…but aside from anecdotes, my concern was just that if you want to do an MD residency you have to take two exams (COMLEX and USMLE) which I believe puts at a disadvantage from your MD counterparts…and/or I did remain unconvinced that an MD or DO graduates with same GPA and USMLE scores are truly viewed as the same by program directors.
In any event, I was prepared to go DO and was confident that I could overcome the extra hurdles and would have to work harder, but the biggest issue for me was that I did not LIKE NSU-COM. I was underwhelmed on my interview day and I just never felt like I belonged there. As I researched more and dug deeper, I felt that I just kept hearing the same recurrent complaints about the school (unsupportive (if not antagonist) admin/faculty as well as some dissatisfaction with the selection of clinical rotation sites). It just didn’t sit well with me…that I kept seeing the same complaint again and again (and not from the other school I was considering)
However, it may have been that because I did not get a good vibe from the school from the get-go that these complaints resounded more loudly to me than the defenses. I would strongly advise you to research the school for yourself…and dig deep for information as the complaints do have a tendency to “poof” disapper…but more importantly, decide for yourself because everyone is different. Many people on SDN and hilseb on here feel very confident that NSU-COM is the school for them, so don’t be swayed by my negative experience but just be fully informed of the facts.
iwant2bMD, if you don’t mind me asking, which medical school are you attending now?
One of reasons I had NSU-COM in mind was because it is in the area and DO schools are more welcoming to non-traditionals.
I am curious because you reside in S. Florida as well and maybe you can provide some guidance as you have been through the process.
I will be starting my pre-reqs in Fall 2007. I am thinking about going to FIU primarily because it is the only university in the area (besides Nova) which offers evening classes, and they are a lot cheaper than Nova!
Were did you take your pre-reqs? Any recommendations?
I heard FIU will be starting a MD program in a year or so. Maybe that will be a good future place to apply, but I don’t know how welcoming they will be to non-traditonals!
I haven’t started school yet, but will be attending USF in August. It’s not in the area per se, but in Tampa.
Nova appealed to me for location as well being that I would not have to move, but, for me, the cons outweighed the pro of not moving.
I think it would be a good idea to your pre-reqs at FIU over Nova. I personally did my undergrad at FIU as well as some summer science classes. I would say that the student body, and by extension , the faculty at FIU are pretty apathetic…sort of go to lecture (or not for most students) and then disappear…there’s just not a sense of community, but it is a commuter school so what do you expect? I imagine Nova for night classes would be similar, but you can’t beat the price for FIU. Also, the University of Miami and Barry has a post-bacc program, but they did not seem worth the money to me…also, the miami program seemed very disorganized and lacking support for a formal program. In the end, I chose to take my pre-reqs in a formal post-bacc program outside of Florida and I have no regrets, but IF I was bound to stay in South Florida, I would go to FIU over paying private tuition at any of the alternatives.
I would be more than happy to share my thoughts on the process, especially with regard to non-traditional applicants. For traditional and non-traditional applicants alike, there is no secret…it’s a fairly simple equation: good grades in pre-reqs, good MCAT score, and clinical and volunteer experience. Easier said than done though, so do the best you can and really give it your all. I do not think that any one school, or Nova for that matter, has a monopoly on being receptive to nontraditional applicants. Do well in your classes, MCAT and get good experience and you will find that schools will be receptive to you, period. If you do not, schools will not be receptive at 21 or 41. I imagine that FIU as a new school will not be super competitive, but it will be a very small class starting out…so it is good to consider other options like Miami and Nova. Keep your options open.
Also, Hilseb will be a great resource for you…she did her pre-req at FIU and is now heading to Nova. She can also give you a different opinion than mine on NSU.
Unfortunately I am stuck in S. Florida. My wife is happy with her job and I can’t leave my job either in order to support the family. Thanks for the advice. I think my best bet will be to take the evening classes at FIU and hope for the best! I guess it will be a self help situation there.
By the way, when I was inquiring into med schools and all, I contacted University of Miami and was adviced to e-mail the medical school dean with my questions. Well the dean was out but I think his assistant answered my questions. One of my questions was the fact that I will be taking one or two classes at night as I will be working full time. He wrote back saying that we look for students that can handle a full course load. I wrote back saying that working full time and taking one or two classes is a full load but never got a reply back!
I am going to message Hilseb to get some further advice. Thanks.
By the way, when I was inquiring into med schools and all, I contacted University of Miami and was adviced to e-mail the medical school dean with my questions. Well the dean was out but I think his assistant answered my questions. One of my questions was the fact that I will be taking one or two classes at night as I will be working full time. He wrote back saying that we look for students that can handle a full course load. I wrote back saying that working full time and taking one or two classes is a full load but never got a reply back!
I think you're right. A family and a job are unique responsibilities that many undergrads don't have to worry about. Since many of us non-trads have gotten into medical colleges after working and taking classes part time, I think that assistant is not giving you an accurate picture. In fact, some medical colleges prize the exposure to the real world and maturity that some of us have and will give our applications serious consideration alongside those of traditional full time undergrads. I would just take what he said with a grain of salt. Just work hard and you'll get in somewhere.
Let’s not kid ourselves. Many med schools do not consider anything besides 12 credit hours as a full course load. I can’t blame them because how do you seperate someone who took 2 classes, worked fulltime, and has a family with someone who took 2 classes, worked parttime as night security and no family responsibilities? Are the grades these two people earn equal? Not by a long shot. So schools need some standard to measure applicants by and that’s a full course load. Not saying it’s fair but how else do you keep things equal?
The equalizer are the members of the adcom. It’s up to us to present a package worthy of defense and once in school to try to work to get other nontrads, who deserve it, in as well.
I mean I don’t think the MCAT is a good indicator of the type of physician you’re going to be. However the MCAT does seem to be a good indicator of how you’ll do on the USMLE…so one could say that the MCAT is a good indicator of whether or not you’ll ever become a licensed physician.
By the way, when I was inquiring into med schools and all, I contacted University of Miami and was adviced to e-mail the medical school dean with my questions. Well the dean was out but I think his assistant answered my questions. One of my questions was the fact that I will be taking one or two classes at night as I will be working full time. He wrote back saying that we look for students that can handle a full course load. I wrote back saying that working full time and taking one or two classes is a full load but never got a reply back!
Hi Challenger,
Miami was originally my first choice because it was close to home and would not require a move. I worked at UMiami for a year and I was not that impressed with the medical campus or facilities, but again it was and still is the only MD school within 200 miles of South Florida. I also felt that with the huge private donations - the school really had great potential to grow as an institution. This was my second time applying...first time, I received an interview and was rejected at Miami. I had a really antagonistic and somewhat racist interviewer and was not surprisingly rejected.
This year was not even interviewed and was until May given the status of my file "awaiting committee decision." I will tell you that my personal opinion of Miami is that it is increasingly becoming numbers-driven. They have a new dean (from Duke) who has also brought over many influential medical researchers from Duke and there is a very strong push in the school to rise in the rankings and reputation. Generally, this push for higher ranking and prestige often comes with an increased focus on numbers of their applicants...so I would not take the assistant's response regarding night classes or not that seriously....rather, get a high MCAT and high GPA and I doubt that your age and/or courseload will matter that much.
I'm also surprised that they offered to answer your questions via email as I've found the admissions office is not very receptive to non-accepted and even waitlisted applicants.
Hey, I talked to the OP via PM, but I wanted to post on here too. According to the students at NSU, they kick some local butt on rotations (side by side with MD students from the area) and place well in residencies. Someone else pointed out that we had good ER matches from the graduating class.
Anyone else on here at NSU? I am only an M1 this fall, so most of what I say is based on hearsay.
I’m in the early stages of my post-bacc program so keep that in mind in regard to the credibility of my comments.
That being said, my post-bacc program advisor told me the same thing as Crooze described. He wants me on a 12-credit load during the fall and spring semesters. In addition to that keeping me on track to complete my residency before I’m 110, it shows the med school admissions committee members that I can make their program. “Hey, this guy worked full time and took a heavy course load…and he pulled off a good GPA.”
According to the advisor, it’s all part of the game. They (the adcomm members) want to see that you can do the work.
Another part is volunteering at the hospital four hours a week the first year; and shadowing a doc my second year.
The advantage that I theoretically have over the younger folks is that my social life is over. I no longer feel the need to create a social life and find a partner…either Ms. Right or Ms. Right Now.
In my late teens and early 20s, I was fairly invincible. Although I would not have admitted it then, I now realize that’s how I operated back then. School was about getting good grades, but it was also about friends, meeting women, and alcohol (not in that order sometimes).
I’ll be turning 40 in a couple weeks and my marriage and family are in a stable position. My current career is just about as solid as it can be. Up to this point, I’ve had my fair share of successes and failures so I know what to pay attention to and what to disregard as non-essential to my goals.
While the full-speed drive of my 20s may not be 100% with me today, I believe my experience and street savvy makes up for that.
As others have said, the challenge will be conveying all of that to the adcom committee.
I agree Hakado but with the adcom caveat. If your stats are competitive (MCAT + GPA) then you have to present a good package to the adcom. If they see “it” in your app then you stand a very good chance at an interview regardless of having taken a full class load. The great thing is schools will tell you that NOTHING will prepare you for the rigors of medical school…sooooooo what would a full course load prove? If the only thing that will prepare you for med school is med school…
According to the students at NSU, they kick some local butt on rotations (side by side with MD students from the area) and place well in residencies.
Students from NSU claiming that students from NSU kick butt on rotations isn't exactly credible.
Quote my whole post, please, I said it was hearsay. Was that worth a whole reply?
As for the full load thing, NSU was very receptive to me, and I didn't take a full load for most of my post bacc. As others have said, it is the whole package that matters. All other things are just considerations.
...The great thing is schools will tell you that NOTHING will prepare you for the rigors of medical school.......sooooooo what would a full course load prove? If the only thing that will prepare you for med school is med school.........
True. Many moons ago there was a part of my life where all we did was train for a particular course. We trained to get accepted to the program and then once accepted, trained even harder in preparation for beginning the program.
However, once we started the program, we soon came to appreciate the sage advice from the old salts in the program ahead of us: "You can never really prepare yourself for a six-month kick in the nuts."
As true as that may be for med school, I'll worry about that once I get there. For now, I need to play by the rules of the acceptance game and do all of my pre-med training by the "rules."
I wanted to post this about the NSU Master’s of Biological Science program. The author, who is now a med student at NSU, is discussing her experiences with this program and said to freely pass it on:
So, for all of those wondering what the MBS program is, it is a program that allows students to take the first year of medical school courses. MBS stands for Master’s of Biomedical Sciences. The expectations of the program are that you pass all courses with a B average or higher. If you successfully complete the coursework, your spot in the following year’s med-school class is guaranteed. If you make more than 7 credit hours worth of C’s the first semester, you are dismissed (there is not remediation like in med-school). If you make one C (i.e 3 credit hours), you have to do the second year of the MBS program. After completing the year successfully with a B average or better, you basically just transition into the M1 class for the following year and do not graduate with the Master’s and continue on as a D.O. student.
This program is great for those who want to make sure that medical school is for them or to see if they can handle the work load. Also, it’s great if one wants to enhance their candidacy for medical school or for someone who would rather do 2 semester’s worth of course work rather than take a year off and re-take the MCAT. You end up being extremely prepared by doing this program; I feel it was worth the sacrifice.
If you make an A in all or some of the courses that you take, you do not have to re-take those courses over, it’s your option. Any course you received a B in has to be retaken.
So, if you know of anyone who might benefit from a program like this, pass on this information. This program is not publicly advertised and is truly a hidden secret. If you need anymore information, I would be more that happy to help.
Hi. I was just thinking… didn’t most of us prove we could carry a full course load with our BS? I had as many as 17 hours at a time then, in solid classes (I’m an EE).
I’m going to sign up for 8 hours this fall (and every semester for the next couple years). I have a family to support and cannot quit. My husband’s income isn’t big; we’d be well below the poverty line with only him working. So, I have to work full-time until my boss kicks me out (ie - when I start taking organic during the day at a uni that’s 1+ hours away).
If the schools don’t see past the part-time post-bacc, they’re going to lose one helluva med student…
The full course load issue one of the many factors where you have to do the best you can. I worked full time (I was supporting myself and a husband at the time) and took no more than two courses with labs and sometimes less but was admitted early decision to my first choice school. I had great grades, a very nice MCAT score, volunteer and leadership experience, and really nice letters.
No one asked me anything about my course load at all. You mileage may vary, particularly in different schools from mine.
I no longer feel the need to create a social life and find a partner…either Ms. Right or Ms. Right Now.
