Hi. Another new guy here.
I am in need of some counseling, and I found you!
My background:
Age: 37
Education: B.S. Aerospace Engineering, 1994; GPA 3.0
Experience: I’ve been working in the engineering profession ever since.
Currently: Live near Milwaukee, work for Harley-Davidson.
Wish: To go to Wisconsin Medical College.
It’s time for a major change. I want to go to med school. I have the resources to pay for any schooling and endure the missed income. That is not an issue.
Obviously my old GPA may be an issue. I plan to take all the necessary pre-reqs at Marquette to qualify for med school. Some of my old credits may tranfer, such as the physics, math and english.
I also have a few semesters of chemistry and organic chemistry from my engineering curriculum. But that was then, and this is now, and I’m certain I need to refresh that knowledge before taking the MCAT.
I suppose I will purchase a few of the MCAT practice tests to determine how rusty I am in physics and calculus. Unless someone here can suggest otherwise?
QUESTION 1:
About that old GPA… How do you think it may be weighted? Sure it’s low, but since then I have proven myself professionally over the last 12 years. I imagine the GPA would hold more weight for a traditional student fresh out of college, with no professional experience. Am I way off base here?
QUESTION 2:
Do I just take the minimum classes to fulfill all the prerequisites and prepare for the MCAT? (And of course get a 4.0 in all of them.) Or would a postbacc be a better choice, and why?
Thanks in advance.
–Greg
Congratulations on deciding to make a change.
Concerning the classes, all of your ugrad grades get lumped together. Sadly, it doesn’t matter how long ago you took them, those grades will affect you now.
You’re on the right track with starting with the pre-reqs. You’d probably need to take them all over again because most schools (but call and confirm this with MCW) won’t accept pre-req credits more than 5 years old. You can do a formal post-bacc (see CO State U), Special Masters Program (see Georgetown), or do something on your own. Formal post-baccs and SMPs can have special connections to medical schools and reputations for getting people in, but they can be expensive and time-intensive. Investigate some of those programs and talk to the pre-med advisors at Marqutte for their advice.
Matriculants have an average 3.6 GPA and 30 MCAT. As much as you are uncompetitive on one of those, you have to be that much more competitive on the other. 3.0 is the GPA minimum for many schools, so with some extra classes your application will at least be looked at least by schools.
Working at Harley-Davidson is certainly very cool. That experience will come into play when you write your application essays and your interviews.
Welcome!
When I read your post I thought I was reading one of my own. 
Like yourself I am a 37 year old professional (Software Engineer) with an undergrad degree in Comp Science GPA of ~3.1. I am taking classes as a non-matriculated undergrad at the University of Washington to meet the requirements to apply to medical school.
QUESTION 1:
About that old GPA. How do you think it may be weighted? Sure it’s low, but since then I have proven myself professionally over the last 12 years. I imagine the GPA would hold more weight for a traditional student fresh out of college, with no professional experience. Am I way off base here?
We can never really out run our old GPA’s and each school may/will weigh them differently. All of your classes, including those you are about to take will be averaged into two key grade point averages; BCMP (Bio, Che, Math, Phy) and overall GPA. Medical schools will take into account your career success but the most important factors involve ability and desire to be a doctor. Medical schools weigh GPA and MCAT most heavily in determining your ability and career, leadership, activities, volunteering, personal statement, etc to determine your desire.
QUESTION 2:
Do I just take the minimum classes to fulfill all the prerequisites and prepare for the MCAT? (And of course get a 4.0 in all of them.) Or would a postbacc be a better choice, and why?
As noted above by RxnMan you will probably need to retake any pre-requisites completed 12 years ago. You should check with the medical schools you plan to apply to know for certain.
You should take all of your lower level pre-requisites as well as Microbiology, Biochemistry, Immunology and even Anatomy and Physiology if possible to bolster your GPA. You can take these classes as an informal or formal postbac. A formal postbac may be useful in offering you letters of recommendation, medical school linkages, etc but may be expensive and/or competitive to gain admittance. Formal programs are not required but some do have benefits. The most important thing is that you get A’s in all of your classes regardless of where you take them. I would highly recommend contacting your local medical school and speaking with an admissions counselor. Good Luck.
Thanks for the responses. I’m sure this forum will prove to be a great resource.
I did some searching and I noticed a thread started by Denise Babin regarding her acceptance at MCW. Since that is where I live and that is were I would eventually apply ED, I’d be interested to hear anything and everything she has to say.
- RxnMan Said:
Working at Harley-Davidson is certainly very cool. That experience will come into play when you write your application essays and your interviews.
Regarding this statement, in what order does a medical school review an applicants information? That is, do they read your essay first?
Because as you alluded to, I do have a lot of great engineering experience, mostly with aircraft. I don't feel that the GPA I earned 12 years ago is exactly repesentative of who I am today. I'm sure I'll have the ammunition to write a great essay, and I'm sure I can do very well at the pre-req classed I'm about to take. But if the GPA is cumulative including prior degrees, well, my prior 140+ credits at 3.0 is going to be difficult to counter...
Although all my old credits from math and physics and chemistry classes are mostly A's. TechMed mentioned the BCMP portion of the GPA. Do you know if they weight that more heavily? And perhaps most important; is all this info reviewed by an actual human, or do these numbers get plugged into a computer before anyone ever looks at an essay?
Do I ask too many question? (kidding.)
Because I have more. (not kidding.)
Thanks,
Greg
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I'm not sure exactly what order they review in, but most schools will tell you that they review the complete application before rejecting anyone. This is not true for some schools - some reject initially based on numbers (MCAT or on GPA). Read Q of Quimica's post on how a couple of schools rejected her because of her undergrad GPA, despite her PhD in Chemistry and 40+ MCAT score.
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Most schools do tend to look more at the BCPM GPA. I'm not sure that they "weight it" per se.
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Schools that screen initially on numbers probably tend to filter out without looking beyond GPA and MCAT scores. Some people have gotten around that by requesting that their application be reconsidered. A *few* of those people have at least then gotten interviews at those schools. However, schools that screen on numbers tend to be pretty hard and fast with their rules.
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It's not going to be as hard as you might think. Most schools will pay close attention to recent coursework and notice that you have done well. Let me give you my personal examples: my undergrad GPA was a 2.78, and my undergrad BCPM was ~2.5 (but only took two courses that counted toward that in my original undergrad). After 44 hours of post-bac work, my total undergrad GPA was up to a 3.19, and my BCPM a 3.76. If medical schools hadn't looked at my recent coursework, there is no way I would have even gotten interviews at, let alone accepted to all five schools I applied to.
I was asked about my undergrad GPA at every interview and how I managed to do so well in my post-bacc given that GPA. My explanation was that I was immature and going through a rebellious phase seemed to suffice.
On another note - I don't know what kinds of classes are bringing your GPA down, but engineers tend to have slightly lower GPA's than other people applying to med school because of the difficulty of the engineering curriculum. Adcoms do consider that a little bit.
A formal post-bacc isn't necessary. They tend to be more expensive and fairly competitive. If you decide to retake your pre-req coursework, I would recommend you take a few higher level courses as well. Biochemistry is being required by more and more schools. Genetics, cell bio or microbiology, physiology, etc. will all be helpful in medical school and count toward your BCPM GPA.
If MCW is your top choice, go ahead and make an appointment with them and ask them what kinds of things they would recommend you do to make your application competitive at their school. Most schools are fairly decent about this.
Good luck!
Regarding this statement, in what order does a medical school review an applicants information?
That is, do they read your essay first?
- Folks may disagree with me at this point, but the two things that schools will first filter and rank applicants by are GPA and MCAT. Nothing else. Given a better MCAT and GPA, a Russian acrobat who specializes in basket weaving will be seen as more competitive than a RN with a decade of experience.
and I’m sure I can do very well at the pre-req classed I’m about to take. But if the GPA is cumulative including prior degrees, well, my prior 140+ credits at 3.0 is going to be difficult to counter…
- Unfortunately this is true. But you’re already above the minimum GPA cut-off for many schools, so someone will probably read your application (a big advantage over say, someone like my case was). Crush the MCAT (score 33+) and you’ll force even more people to look at you.
Although all my old credits from math and physics and chemistry classes are mostly A’s. TechMed mentioned the BCMP portion of the GPA. Do you know if they weight that more heavily?
- These are the core classes that are thought to be indicative of med school perfomance, so they are seen as somewhat more important.
And perhaps most important; is all this info reviewed by an actual human, or do these numbers get plugged into a computer before anyone ever looks at an essay?
- Kinda answered above. The AMCAS is first downloaded by the SOM dean. The deans generally have “masks” that filter the content down (completed AMCAS can be 20 pages in length) to something managable for a first glance (name, age, MCAT, and GPA). If you’re competitive on one or both the MCAT and GPA, then they put you off to the side for further review where they read your essays. The rest get the circular file folder.
I don’t feel that the GPA I earned 12 years ago is exactly repesentative of who I am today.
- I feel your pain. I was 16 and dealing with “cancer life” when I started college, and I did horribly. But med school’s don’t see that context, and frankly, many don’t have to - They have so many applications coming in, they can easily fill their classes with 4.0s if they want to.
I’m sure I’ll have the ammunition to write a great essay…
- As a non-trad, this is one big thing you’ll have over 80% of the field: experience. In your case, it’s something exciting (or you can make it sound that way) and it lends an interesting skill set to the standard med school class. Focus on this strength.
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While I don't totally disagree with you, I think most schools are moving away from letting these be the sole determination of who they interview. There are plenty of stories out there of people with ridiculous GPA's and MCAT's not getting accepted or even getting a lot of interviews.
Bottom line for the OP - you can't change your undergrad GPA. All you can do is get the best grades you can in your current coursework, do well on the MCAT, and write a great essay. I think you can give yourself a reasonable chance at medical school entry, so there is no point obsessing over something you can't change. Do some homework so that you don't waste your money applying to schools that won't overlook that original GPA, but beyond that, move on.
Being in-state at MCW will help - MCW heavily favors in-state candidates.