Hello everyone. I can’t tell you, although I don’t think I need to, how energizing it is to come here and read our stories and then see the encouraging responses. Not only is the information encouraging, but the tone is very supportive, and that’s what I can’t get anywhere else, so thanks very, very much. Since you don’t seem to mind hearing background, I would like to share mine and receive some advice. I have seen a lot of answers that seem to apply to me, but am just needing an extra dose of “it’s within reach” from those who know more than just my age.
I turned 48 this August, it’s a long tale. Graduated with BA, Psych in 1984, went active duty army military intelligence for 5 years, gave birth to my only child, a now 16 year old boy with a loving heart and autism as well, spent some time assisting a naturopath, taught elementary and middle school, divorced along the way, became a special education administrator, opened a special education school, went broke and closed it the same year (partnership problems, which seems to be a recurring theme-too much trust),decided that business closing was the perfect segue to get that Master’s I’d been thinking about in between visits to OTs, PTs, SLPs, BTs, etc. and enrolled in an accredited (regional, not APA) Ed Psych distance program. There is no lecture material, it’s all problem solving and independent research. This brought me back into contact with my original love. As an undergrad, I took the experimental track and was actually blessed enough to have a lab with rats and a great mentor; too inexperienced too realize how fortunate I was. Anyway, for my second course I chose one of the electives: Biology of Psychology. Epiphany. Had I not accepted my commission into the army way back when, I would have stayed in school and completed the hours for double major in biology. Well, I came back home with this course. I thought I must be nuts to think someone would value my potential efforts because I do see a lot of age discrimination in the world in general. But, when you are called, you gotta go anyway. So, began some research and made a plan. Started a self-study course in Algebra, trying to find local schools to take science courses I’m missing, have applied to volunteer in local children’s hospital in either the NICU or special peds unit, take MCAT, apply. I do have extensive community service, just none of it clinically related in any way. I was a guardian ad litem for several years and am now a surrogate parent, mostly for emotionally handicapped kids in the foster system. They don’t live with me, I am their educational advocate and sometimes go with them to court as well. I have, and do serve on on a number of non profit boards, mostly all dealing with services to children. Right now I am working part time and schooling part time, mother full time. Besides some general advice, I could use some specific advice as well. Should I focus on finishing this master’s program, or should I quit it and just work on fulfilling the premed prereqs? If I quit the program and just take post-bacc classes, will I lose my financial aid without program standing? Reality wise, at what point should I take the MCAT? What did someone mean when they said it wasn’t really content based anyway? My undergrad GPA is 3.17 (was not a serious student then, but am now). Will my new credits be added to that, or will it just be a separate figure? Say I end up being 50 at application time, do I really stand a chance of being accepted? If yes, what about the perception of the professors and docs instructing-do they take you seriously? You could all tell me I’ll never get in and I will try anyway; I have no choice, it’s what I must do. But still, an awareness of reality is a good thing. I can’t even share this with my family as they will say it’s impossible and I just need to focus on an income right now. I have already spent some time regretting what I didn’t do in my first 48 years, I know how I’m spending the next 48. Speaking of reality, I have also begun consulting with a nutritionist and have begun a work out class as well-got to build some stamina. Any other thoughts or things I’ve missed? Thanks for your time.
Sheryl in Orlando FL
Sheryl,
I was 52 when I started med school 3 years ago. I had plenty of people telling me it wouldn’t be possible, but I had just as many telling me I should go for it. After all, they’d say, in five years I will be five years older, whether or not I go to med school.
Is it difficult? At times. My stamina isn’t the same as some of the younger ones. But, at the same time, I have learned how to use my time wisely and efficiently, and that, I think, is the major hurdle.
As to the professors and doctors . . . well, I have received nothing but encouragement from them. Last week one of the anesthesiologists told me it was nice to see someone who was really focused and obviously wanted to become a physician. And that was just because I had asked questions during a surgery I was assisting on.
Most of all, you have to want to succeed. If you do, then put your heart and soul into it and go for it!
Good luck!
Sheryl, welcome to OPM! I’m glad you’ve found it to be a welcoming and encouraging place.
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… I have seen a lot of answers that seem to apply to me, but am just needing an extra dose of “it’s within reach” from those who know more than just my age.
This is a good place both for the encouragement and “attagirls” AND the reality checks that, as OPMs, we need and are prepared to hear.
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I turned 48 this August, it’s a long tale.
Of course it’s a long tale!!! And it happens to the best of us…
I will turn 50 at the end of this year, yikes.Quote:
Graduated with BA, Psych in 1984, went active duty army military intelligence for 5 years, gave birth to my only child, a now 16 year old boy with a loving heart and autism as well, spent some time assisting a naturopath, taught elementary and middle school, divorced along the way, became a special education administrator, opened a special education school, went broke and closed it the same year (partnership problems, which seems to be a recurring theme-too much trust),decided that business closing was the perfect segue to get that Master’s I’d been thinking about in between visits to OTs, PTs, SLPs, BTs, etc. and enrolled in an accredited (regional, not APA) Ed Psych distance program.
You’ve had a great and enriching life. Just this little recitation of the things you’ve done gives me a sense that you’re a person with a great deal of intellectual curiosity. That’s not something you can “fake,” in my opinion, and it’s a REALLY good thing for a physician candidate to have.
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There is no lecture material, it’s all problem solving and independent research. This brought me back into contact with my original love. As an undergrad, I took the experimental track and was actually blessed enough to have a lab with rats and a great mentor; too inexperienced too realize how fortunate I was. Anyway, for my second course I chose one of the electives: Biology of Psychology. Epiphany. Had I not accepted my commission into the army way back when, I would have stayed in school and completed the hours for double major in biology. Well, I came back home with this course.
Isn’t it great when something ‘CLICKS’ like that. I’ve had to be somewhat guarded about my own “epiphany” because it occurred while I was in psychotherapy
and I was afraid I’d look/sound like a nut if I was too open about just how quickly I realized that my searching was over and that I was HOME. But that’s the way it was, and those of us who’ve done, ahem, significant years of reality-testing (i.e. LIFE) do sometimes know something good as soon as we see it, I guess.Quote:
I thought I must be nuts to think someone would value my potential efforts because I do see a lot of age discrimination in the world in general. But, when you are called, you gotta go anyway.
There is a lot of age discrimination out there, I agree. But what I’ve found, at least in medicine but I suspect in other fields as well, is that even those who would discriminate unthinkingly can change their tune when confronted with someone who is so sure and so positive. Not always, but at least sometimes. Those in the field are flattered when someone else wants to “follow in their footsteps,” and in general they recognize that people making a career switch to do it are even more dedicated and passionate about the choice.
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So, began some research and made a plan. Started a self-study course in Algebra, trying to find local schools to take science courses I’m missing, have applied to volunteer in local children’s hospital in either the NICU or special peds unit, take MCAT, apply. I do have extensive community service, just none of it clinically related in any way. I was a guardian ad litem for several years and am now a surrogate parent, mostly for emotionally handicapped kids in the foster system. They don’t live with me, I am their educational advocate and sometimes go with them to court as well. I have, and do serve on on a number of non profit boards, mostly all dealing with services to children.
That is a very impressive record of community service and you should hold your head high for that. As you may have seen me say before, your volunteer work does NOT have to be health-care-related. But it does need to show that you really are an altruistic individual who is oriented toward helping others. Your deeds speak volumes about you!
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Right now I am working part time and schooling part time, mother full time. Besides some general advice, I could use some specific advice as well. Should I focus on finishing this master’s program, or should I quit it and just work on fulfilling the premed prereqs?
You’ll see people say that med schools don’t like to see someone start a master’s program and not finish it. On the other hand, it was getting into this master’s program that helped you realize that its focus was NOT the direction you wanted to go in. I think you could make a persuasive case for dropping it and going full-bore on pre-med stuff, but that’s just my opinion. Get more opinions, but remember that opinions are like… well, you know the saying.
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If I quit the program and just take post-bacc classes, will I lose my financial aid without program standing?
I don’t know, and this is an important question that’s been addressed on OPM before. Keep looking through the archives and I believe you’ll find some folks’ experiences written up.
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Reality wise, at what point should I take the MCAT? What did someone mean when they said it wasn’t really content based anyway?
You shouldn’t take the MCAT until you are done, or almost done, with your prereqs (by “almost” I mean, for example, that you could take them as you’re completing second semester o-chem) - April MCAT with May class completion, for example. Budget time for the MCAT as if it were a science class with lab, and then some. And don’t pay much attention to the intellectual sparring going on here, and elsewhere, about the MCAT. In the end you must do very well on it, so the exact nature of the test is kind of a moot point. My thought on the MCAT was that it tested your ability to integrate the content you’d learned with your own problem-solving and critical thinking skills. You must have the content as your foundation. But those who think that simply knowing factoids in biology, chemistry or physics will be enough for good MCAT performance find out that it’s a wholly different animal.
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My undergrad GPA is 3.17 (was not a serious student then, but am now). Will my new credits be added to that, or will it just be a separate figure?
Both, I think. Those who’ve applied more recently will hopefully correct me if I’m wrong, but at least for the AMCAS (allopathic) application, they c
alculate a “grand total” GPA and also display a year-by-year GPA. Your post-bachelor’s stuff will therefore show up separately, but will also be calculated into the cumulative GPA.
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Say I end up being 50 at application time, do I really stand a chance of being accepted? If yes, what about the perception of the professors and docs instructing-do they take you seriously?
Yes, you stand a chance. Your grades, MCAT and personal statement will be very important in terms of being taken seriously as an applicant. There are probably schools that won’t consider you but there are many schools that WILL. As for fellow students and professors once you get in, I definitely felt like I was always taken seriously although I was often regarded as something of a curiosity. You and your younger classmates have a common goal and purpose and that trumps the age difference pretty much.
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You could all tell me I’ll never get in and I will try anyway; I have no choice, it’s what I must do. But still, an awareness of reality is a good thing. I can’t even share this with my family as they will say it’s impossible and I just need to focus on an income right now. I have already spent some time regretting what I didn’t do in my first 48 years, I know how I’m spending the next 48.
Well put! You may find on the interview trail that you’re asked, “Why on earth would you want to do this at your age?” (the appropriateness of that question I’ll leave as a discussion for another time). That response would be perfect IMHO.
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Speaking of reality, I have also begun consulting with a nutritionist and have begun a work out class as well-got to build some stamina.
That is a REALLY good idea. To my shock and amazement I managed to reform my eating habits and start exercising regularly when I was in my third year of med school - wished I’d done it sooner, and sure wish I could get back to those good habits now as a resident, where I am dying (uh, figuratively) for lack of exercise and have degenerated into comfort food because so much of the time I feel sorry for myself and my tough life.
This week I swear I am going to the gym…Quote:
Any other thoughts or things I’ve missed? Thanks for your time.
Sheryl, it sounds to me like you’re thinking in the right direction and you recognize the challenges and key things to emphasize. Remember this is a journey of many steps (something my therapist said to me, over and over and over)… by committing to self-study Algebra, you’re not at this point, just yet, committing to staying up all night on call as an intern. Remember to enjoy every step of the way, something that I think you will have NO trouble doing. Obviously part of the reason I can look back on my pre-med days with such a positive attitude is because I DID achieve my goal, but I really did have fun along the way - I loved my classes, loved learning new stuff, was thrilled that I was able to do things that had previously eluded me. Enjoy the moment.
And thanks for the chance to wax philosophical on some topics I like to blather on about! It was a perfect way to while away a rainy Saturday afternoon here…
Mary
Hello Linda.
Thanks for your encouraging response. Hearing from someone who is close to the age I will be when I get in is a real boost. In the days ahead, when people see me smiling for no apparent reason and ask what I’m smiling about, I will say, I know someone who’s been where I’m going, and helped make a way broader for me. It’s good to hear the instructors take you seriously as well. I guess the mere fact that you are there speaks for your qualifications and that must be a good basis for respect.
Thanks,
Sheryl King
Mary, thank you for spending your Saturday afternoon encouraging and reassuring me. I spent Saturday finishing a paper on bidirectional communication between neurons and astrocytes for a professor who told me not to be so technical in my papers.I still look at it as time well spent because it is one step closer.
The detail of your response was fantastic and it was just what I needed. I especially enjoyed your comment regarding how quickly we can recognize when we are home. As you say, it must be a talent reserved for those who have seen so many versions of what is “not home” that the real thing becomes immediately recognizable.
I also find your reasoning sound in your advice to probably drop the master’s and go for the pre-reqs. I will get more opinions, as you also suggest, but you kind of confirmed my leanings. Thanks, too, for turning “my story” into something that sounds admirable. I certainly never quite looked at it from that perspective, but your kindness has enabled me to see it more positively. Your characterization sounds better than my typical self-litany of wrong choices, failed marriage, failed business, etc. In fact, I am going to copy your post and carry it with me in my “getting into med school” bag that I take everywhere with me.
Bless you for your loving heart, your brilliant mind, and your generous spirit, AND your doctorhood.
Sheryl King
Sheryl -
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If I quit the program and just take post-bacc classes, will I lose my financial aid without program standing?
There are three different ways of getting financial aid for the pre-reqs.
1. You are allowed financial aid for 12 CONSECUTIVE months to take courses that are pre-requisites for admission into a professional program. You can enroll as a continuing ed/non-degree student (saving $$ and headaches in applying). My school had a form that had to be filled out by an academic counselor verifying that the courses I was taking were required for admission into medical school.
The downside - 12 consecutive months. If you don’t take classes one quarter, you don’t gain another quarter of FA eligibility at the end. Also - it is difficult, almost impossible to take all of the pre-reqs in 12 months unless you are in a structured post-bacc program. This is due to the requirement for two years of chemistry. It can be done, but it makes for a hellishly brutal load (imagine taking biology, physics and chemistry together all year, with labs and then taking organic chemistry in the summer.)
This is how I did my pre-reqs. The fact that I already had a master’s degree didn’t matter.
2. You can apply as a degree-seeking undergrad for a second degree. This makes you eligible for regular undergrad financial aid. There’s nothing that says you have to finish this degree. I know a couple of people who have done it this way. This eliminates the 12 consecutive month constraint. However, there are some limits about how many undergrad credit hours you can receive financial aid for. They also tend to not give you much notice that you have capped out your undergraduate financial aid, and I know people who have found themselves in a pinch because they found out with rather short notice that they weren’t going to get any financial aid for their last semester/quarter because they had taken their limit of undergrad hours.
I also don’t know how this applies to people who have started Master’s programs. The people that I know who chose this route only had undergrad degrees.
3. If you have good credit, you can borrow from private sources. There are a lot less restrictions, but the interest rates are generally higher.
I suggest that you talk to a financial aid counselor (or two or three) about your eligibility for federal loans. If they don’t mention the 12 months thing, ask about it, because it exists. If you are leaning toward the claiming another undergrad degree option, ask if your master’s work affects that and how many hours you are eligible to take. I suggest asking multiple counselors because sometimes they are misinformed or inexperienced. Although many do an excellent job, I suggest that you double or triple check any information given to you regarding your financial aid eligibility. It’s a big setback to enroll for classes, have your course laid out, and then find out that you won’t be receiving any aid. This especially true of pre-reqs because these classes are often only offered specific quarters/semesters.
Good luck with your decision.
Amy
Amy, thanks for that detailed information about financial aid. I wasn’t having much success putting all the pieces together from searching, so you made my life much easier by sharing your knowledge.
Sheryl