Greetings.
I’m almost 30 years old and I’m contemplating a career change into medicine with an emphasis in psychiatry. Several years ago I started at a junior college and worked on the requisite courses which lead to a transfer to a 4-year university. Eventually I graduated with a degree but unfortunately my undergrad grades weren’t the best. To keep it short, I had a variety of problems that I struggled with throughout my early and mid 20s. While some people pissed away their undergrad years with heavy drinking and partying, I almost lost mine through severe depression and isolation. However, I did graduate!
Having worked at a few crummy, dead-end, temp jobs, I’m at a major crossroads in my life; head to graduate school to become a social worker with either a masters or a PhD, or medical school, to become a psychiatrist. I’m well aware of the differences between a social worker, psychologist, and a psychiatrist. Hell, I’ve spent many years dealing therapists and psychiatrists I pretty much know how the system works.
As an aside, I’ve been thinking about med school for sometime but never gave it any serious consideration until now. However, when I think of all the prerequisites I would have to take and given I’m almost 30, it feels daunting - VERY daunting. For example, if I were accepted into med school today, I would be closing in on 40 by the time I wrapped up my residency, and that’s IF I started today. It feels so overwhelming to think about it, and when I feel like tossing this wild notion of wanting to go to med school I remind myself of these encouraging quotes from the Resident Life forums at TLC.com:
Okay, so i am a med student who is not exactly the brightest. That is obvious from my test scores. How I got in, I don’t know. But I will tell you to figure out why it is that you want to be in medicine and keep reminding yourself. It doesn’t really matter so much that you are smart, just determined. I am not saying that undergrad grades and a good MCAT score are worthless, just that if you have a goal, you are likely to work as hard as you can for it.
I’ve got classmates that started med school in their mid 30s. There are people that have already went out and worked for a few years before going to medical school. About half my class are people who took at least one year off before starting medical school… so you still have plenty of time. I suggest you go and check out the doctor’s offices/hospitals first. You know… there are people that quit med school because they discover that it’s not something that they want to do. Some quit after graduating med school too (if you remember one episode of Hopkins 24/7 where one of the surgery residents quit). It’s uncommon, but happens. I’d say… do what makes you happy, and what would be practical for your life"
"This is for the person who said they were a sophmore in college and just turning premed. You are NOT late!!! LOLOL. I’m 25 and just decided (i had been in grad school adn research is not for me, i needed to work with people.) I had never considered medicine. My friend was in the corporate world, is now in her 30’s and is going to med school next year. Never too late!"
Sounds encouraging so far but then here’s this quote:
It has been my experience that it makes no difference what kind of a student you are in HS when it comes to getting into medical school. Much like how good a student you are in undergrad does not determine what kind of med student you are going to be. I know brilliant HS students who flopped in undergrad, super smart students in undergrad fail out of med school, students in the lower half of their HS class go on to be top 10% in undergrad…you get the idea. BUT, if you are going to get into medical school, you must do well in undergrad and on the MCAT…"
Ouch, I didn’t do so well as an upper division undergrad. So here is my question for you:
* With my less than stellar undergrad record and given the fact that I don’t have the requisite courses for med school under my belt, would it be wise to return to community college and take the necessary lower division science courses and then transfer back to a 4-year university to complete the upper division courses? It’s not like I have to get a second degree - just take the required science courses and boost my GPA, right? Obviously I’ll have to do well in all of the courses but I also have to consider the possibility that I’m simply not cut out for the hard sciences.
What do you guys think?
First, hi, and welcome! You’re not too old. I’ll be 42 when I START med school. Natalie Bell started a 7-year surgical residency at 50 or 51 and Linda Wilson just started med school on the sunny side of 50, as well.
I struggled with depression myself in younger days and that’s as much as I’m going to say about it, too. 
Good for you for taking time to think about where you want to go now! It’s a tough decision and hard to even think about.
I’m not sure where you are with the sciences. I’d suggest taking some relevant mathematics, the underpinning of most of the sciences, at a community college where it is cheap and you can see where you are. You need a good grasp of algebra and trigonometry to do well in general chemistry and physics. Once you get there, it’s probably best to take the prereq courses at a 4-year university. Some medical school adminssion committees (maybe most?) tend to view prereq courses taken at a community college as being easier than the identical course at a university.
Use the Search button to look for posts by OldManDave, and see if you can catch him describing his recovery from a dreadful GPA in his undergraduate career. He’s now in an anesthesiology residency at Dartmouth.
It’s doable. Hard, but doable. I hope other old premeds will be around soon to offer words of welcome and wisdom.
Thanks for replying.
Yeah I’m going to start slowly at the community college to see how well I do in the sciences. I’m really worried about math though. It’s been my achilles heel since elementary school and while I have taken algebra and trig I really don’t remember a damn thing from them :}
What about the different types of calculus courses available? Looking through the catalogue I see Short Calculus and Calculus.
Short Calculus is billed as: Review of functions, limits, differentiation of algebraic functions, analytic geometry, integration of algebraic functions, calculus for exponential and logarithmic functions, applications of calculus in business and the social and life sciences. Differentiation and integration of trigonometric functions, functions of several variables, partial derivatives, double integrals, introduction to differential equations, sequences and series, applications of calculus in business and the social and life sciences.This course is not intended for students majoring in mathematics, engineering, physics, or chemistry.
Does that sound adequate or would I have to dive into “regular” Calculus I, II, II, and Differential Equations and Linear Algebra?
Hi vault,
Actually I have suffered the same thing … but actually I think I’m lucky I’m on my way out … I’m only 21 turning 22 but my first 2 years of college were horrible … Too many problems… but I persevered and take my own initiatives … I’m glad I didn’t have any money for counselors or pyschologists … the ones at the university were horrible … grrr 
Anyway… Physics I requires just algebra … you don’t need to know calculus for it though some university professors taught them with some differential equations and integrals … very basic though … you should be fine if you had PreCalc … covers newtonian motions and waves… maybe some thermodynamics
Physics II is actually easier than Physics I … go figure … Electricity and magnetism, light and maybe some more waves and thermodynamics … lots of alebgra
You do not need partial derivatives or multiple integrals… hope that helps
Hello. Welcome to OPM! Many people here are your age or older and are in some stage of medical school (either premed, med, or residency) so you are never too old. My situation is similiar to yours: I’m 28 (almost 29) and have started back with math classes at my local community college. I’m currently in the second semester of PreCalc. It’s hard as hell for me, but I’m doing it! Math has always been my weak spot so I’m doing it first to build a foundation for the sciences, which I’ll take next year at a 4-year college. Next year, I’ll find out if I really have what it takes. I think a CC is an excellent place to start or you may even want to start at a 4-year university by taking some of the “101” classes before the classes for science majors.
Regarding your Calculus question, I would check with your academic advisor at your school. The description you posted sounds right in that it could be used for medical school but only your advisor would know for sure. Or, you could check with some admissions deans of med schools you think you will apply to. I hope this helps.
Love,
Stacy
I just wanted to say welcome to OPM!!!
Ask your advisor about the classes. Most med schools don’t even need Calculus.
Hey there,
Welcome to OPM!
I’ve been tutoring calc for awhile, and it seems like the difference between regular calculus and short calculus is that the short version is a one-semester survey of stuff that the regular, 2-semester calculus I - II classes go into in more depth. No matter which class you take, you’ll end up doing derivatives first, and after that integrals. Like the course description says, short calc is for non-science/non-engineering majors. If you think you might like any of the hard science subjects enough to ever want to take extra classes in any of them, then take the regular calc class and see how it goes. I don’t think “short” calc is necessarily going to be that much easier than calc 1. It just emphasizes different stuff. But of course this will differ from school to school.
You definitely don’t need calc 3 or 4, or anything beyond calc 2 for med school, unless you want to go into a research program, maybe. It seems like most med schools either don’t require calculus at all, or they expect one semester of it, along with maybe statistics. A few do ask for calc 1 and 2. Check with some schools to find out. But for sure, you won’t have to take any linear algebra or multivariable stuff if you don’t want!
You could also start with pre-calc–you probably get some useful trig stuff in that class that will help in physics. Your trig (and algebra) has to be decent to get by in any calculus class.
Good luck!
Andrea
Uggg it looks like I’m going to have to take a refresher course in algebra and maybe trig. I have taken both of those courses but that was like 8 years ago and I really don’t remember anything :{
I was thumbing through some texts and most of it was greek to me even though I had it before. Sigh Starting pre-med courses at a later age is one thing, but having to go back and take refresher courses in algebra is demoralizing.
Yeah, but I bet one class, either pre-calc or college algebra, would do it. You can go straight into chemistry and physics after either of those. Algebra’s more of a skill than a specific thing to know, and you just want to be sure you’re comfortable with it. For trig, you need to know how the unit circle works and a few other things. But it’s a finite amount of stuff, and it shouldn’t set you back. If you want, you could take a bio class at the same time, to remind yourself of your main interest. It’s all do-able!
Heh I’m already enrolled in a College Algebra course and after two classes I’m having serious doubts about my ability to handle math. This of course leads me to believe I better get used to “Would you like fries with that?” because that’s the career I’ll probably end up in.
Interestingly enough the same professor who is instructing my CA course taught my intermediate algebra course but that was 8 years ago! While I did get a B in the course I think the problem is that I took it in summer school - a very compressed format and as such I didn’t have a lot of time to to practice problems and let the stuff sink in. By the time you get used to something the instructor is already talking about material 3 chapters ahead of you. So no more math courses in summer school for me.
Hey, Vault?
How are you stuck? Can you do the easy problems but get stuck on the hard ones? Does it all make sense to you in lecture but you can’t do it? Or are you lost right at the beginning in lecture?
I’ve been lost in math classes every way you can be lost. There’s hope.
Vaultdweller: Going to medical school is indeed daunting undertaking, but a worthwhile one if you feel that you would not regret it later. Or that you would regret NOT going to medical school. I know that I would, so that is why I’ve decided to start.
I, too, can understand how you feel, about the long drawn out process and the time commitment. But the way I look at it, I can be 50 and be a doctor/resident or be 50 and be something else. I’d rather be the doctor for it will allow me to do the things that I want to REALLY do with my life.
You say that your undergraduate grades are not very good. I suggest that before you return to school, take a look at why you did poorly as an undergrad. Make sure that when you return to school, you do not make the same mistakes you made before.
And welcome to OPM.
Thumbing through the introductory chapters I was able to work on some problems while others left me frustrated. My gut is telling me I need to retake a refresher course because while I may get through CA I most likely will be up to my neck the whole semester and I don’t want that. It will only hinder me if I go on to advanced math with only marginal skills in algebra.
Going to talk to the prof tommorrow and get his opinion. I’ve always enjoyed conceptual science, especially astronomy, but throw math into the equation (no pun intended) and I’m as dumb as a brick.
Would you like fries with that, sir? :}
Going to medical school is indeed daunting undertaking, but a worthwhile one if you feel that you would not regret it later. Or that you would regret NOT going to medical school. I know that I would, so that is why I’ve decided to start.
I, too, can understand how you feel, about the long drawn out process and the time commitment. But the way I look at it, I can be 50 and be a doctor/resident or be 50 and be something else. I’d rather be the doctor for it will allow me to do the things that I want to REALLY do with my life.
That’s good advice, thank you. Yeah it would’ve been nice to have taken all the pre-med courses and the MCAT in my early 20’s but I can’t change history so there’s no sense in dwelling on it. I’m not even sure if this is the route I want to go but I won’t know for sure unless I try. I’m willing to dive into the pre med courses and if I do poorly despite my best effort then I’ll accept the fact that I’m not cut out for it.
You say that your undergraduate grades are not very good. I suggest that before you return to school, take a look at why you did poorly as an undergrad. Make sure that when you return to school, you do not make the same mistakes you made before.
It’s rather complicated and personal so I won’t go in to too many details, but I’m fully aware of why I did poorly in my upper division undergrad courses. In retrospect I should’ve withdrawn from university but pressure from mommy and daddy kept me there despite my absolute misery. One thing is certain, if I ever have children I’m going to make it very clear to them that they can share their problems with me without fear of being ridiculed or shamed, and if they need to pull out of school for a semester or two to straighten things out, then by all means they can do it and I’ll be there to support them. I’d rather have them withdraw and work on more pertinent issues than “stick it out like a man” and irrevocably wreck their undergrad GPA.
And welcome to OPM.
Thanks.
I think you’re doing the right thing talking it over with the prof. And I think it’s good to listen to your gut. This is a marathon, not a sprint (I keep telling myself that). If you get a semester to ease into math and get practice doing the stuff you know, at speed, you’ll do better learning the math you don’t know.
One of the keys to chemistry class, and I suspect I’ll find it true in math class as well, is that it’s not enough to be able to do it. You have to be able to do it fast enough to finish the exam and even read over the exam and find your mistakes. And that takes practice. Good luck!
vault -
Math is totally a stepping stone sort of skill. There is nothing “demoralizing” about taking a lower math to catch up or bone up on math skills that have slipped away. I get great grades in everything else but math is not my forte. I haven’t taken a math class since I was 16 (I’m now 30) and I’m taking an introductory algebra that I won’t even get credit for! I tested into int. algebra (which is a pre-req for college algebra anyway unless you score really high on a math placement test)and chose to start here as I know it will do me good. By not being ashamed that I’m rusty in math I’m doing myself a huge favor. Obviously not everyone needs to go as low as I went (and I admit, after the first week of super rushed review where I was struggling to remember things I hadn’t done in ages, it’s all coming back to me now and is super easy. I’m going to go into the next levels well prepared.
Anyway, please don’t assume that needed lower math makes one a fry server for life. I have no intentions of letting this math get in my way and you shouldn’t either!
-Christy
Quote:
Thumbing through the introductory chapters I was able to work on some problems while others left me frustrated. My gut is telling me I need to retake a refresher course because while I may get through CA I most likely will be up to my neck the whole semester and I don’t want that. It will only hinder me if I go on to advanced math with only marginal skills in algebra.
I’m new here also. I just started going back to school recently, and even though I got through Calc before, I forgot so much I started in Intermediate Algebra. The foundation it gave me has helped me coast through math so far.
It was a good decision, and I would recommend you do the same if you feel College Algebra is a bit of a stretch.
It is only one semester, which isn’t that long in the scheme of things.
Thanks for your support guys.
Yeah I did pull out of college alg and enrolled into intermediate alg because it’s been over 8 years since I’ve taken any math class. While I am a bit rusty I am finding it all coming back to me, however I still struggle with word problems :}
If I recall correctly, this was how my best friend taught me to do word problems when I was a college freshman years ago.
Make up a few variable names. T for train speed, W for train TWO, etc. You may have too many variables, but don’t worry, you’ll get rid of some of them later. Now look at each sentence and make it into an equation or an equation fragment. Train 1 is going twice as fast as Train 2, to T=2W. Oh, but it’s going in the other direction, and you’re interested in progress WESTWARD, so it’s T=-2W. You’ll have some different pieces, depending on the complexity of the problem. See how you can combine your equations to get rid of some of your variables.
Soon you’ll have an equation, and all you have to remember is what the variable stood for and make sure it’s the thing you were trying to find.
This is kind of a chuggy way to approach word problems, but it gives you a way to start writing things and start fitting the parts together when you’re just staring at the problem, thinking, “What the heck do I do now?” Once the pencil is moving, half the battle is over, at least for me.
Good luck!
And my best friend? Fifteen years later, I wised up and married him. No matter how long it takes you to master word problems, you can’t be a slower learner than I was.
you really need to hear OldManDave’s story (our founder) about his under 2.0 GPA, getting kicked out of school, working as a bouncer etc, then going back. he’s in a great residency right now. yes, he had to go back and work his butt off, but he made it. I think it depends on how much you are willing to work for it. The AdComs will look at everything you present them, including improvement. Good luck in your future.
Kathy