Hello! New and questions

Nontraditional Premed Discussion
1

First of all, I would like to say I am so happy to have found this site. I have been reading it for quite a bit before I decided to sign up! I am so glad there are many people with knowledge, experience and advice to give to people in our situation here. I was feeling pretty lonely taking courses at school with people 13-15 years younger than me haha.


I am 33 years old, and I have been taking my prereq courses since about 2013 spring.


I have a very unusual background story. I have been “in” college since about 19-20…constantly. The story is, I was had a business that me and friends made, and building up since 20. Took us quite awhile to make it to the point we made a living off of it (it was entertainment, music, visual arts etc related). Meanwhile, i took courses at a local college…for fun. So I have amassed terrible GPA and W’s you probably can’t even count. Yeah it seems silly, I took my own money to take various types of courses (and repeats) because I enjoyed learning, but had no interest in progressing academically.


when I was about 28-29 I decided maybe I should get a BA in something, anything. So I took some prereqs for Sociology. I still, wasn’t too serious about school, and if work was busy, I “casually” dropped courses because work was more important/money.


Long story short, I had a revelation where I wanted to pursue medicine. So I gave some of the prereq courses a try. Hoooo boy was it hard. I withdrew from all the courses and gave up.


Who was I kidding? I don’t have a strong science academic background to begin with (I did arts and visual designs in high school).


I got married around this time, and my wife told me: “give it a try one more time, and if you still fail, do something else.” So Spring of 2013, I took courses, got


A in Chem 1A (our school has chemistry CLEP/AP)


B in Bio (I totally expected this other way around with Chem),


and an A in an anthropology course.


I felt a bit more confident, so fall 2013, I took:


Chem 1B, B+


Precalculus A


Social Statistical (it was for my major req.) B+


Data Analysis B+


I was actually pretty darn slumped, crushed and lost confidence at this point, because of what I hear about premedical majors getting almost all As (and have seen some that do).


I have been pretty emotionally burned out since then, and


currently taking chemistry 2, trigonometry, Social research methods, and a chemistry lab.


I am actually doing pretty bad currently in Chem 2, a 48% (I actually missed an exam due to having to go to the USCIS immigration thing, for a family member and my professor does not give make ups despite federal documents, and told me to make it u via finals replacement…ugh), so I am REALLY on edge, and chem 2 hasn’t been the easiest subject for me, volume wise (getting the terms weren’t too bad). If I manage to score above 90s from now plus finals I could pull off a B or even an A if lucky, but you all know this is VERY difficult if not impossible to do haha. But I shall TRY!


Nevertheless, it has me stressed out tremendously, and contemplated if I am even doing the right thing…


As I have stated, I have had a pretty weird circumstance, so I wanted some tips from some of the people on this board. I know at the least, many of you decide to go to medical school later at least, and have some sort of story. Although, I noticed alot of old premeds are very smart, have gotten good grades their post bacc. etc. I feel somewhat left out because of my academic history. Heck, alot of premed advisors felt I was joking at times, and even have gotten angry at me for wanting to pursue medical school. Despite having thought the path of medical school for almost a year, researching and contemplating, I don’t know how many times I have gotten condescending remarks about how I probably have no idea what medical school requirements are like, and just want to be a doctor. Quite the contrary, almost everyday I used to think of reasons NOT to be one, yet I still feel I want to.


I am very sincere about this, and as long as my abilities follow, I would like to give it my best shot. I am not stubborn about the path I have chosen, but at the same time, it would be a sin not to give it my best shot.


It has been a tough journey getting used to (still getting used to) studying for sciences when I have zero background in it. I wished I would not have dropped so many courses before so that if something in the worst case scenario, I would have an option.


I will summarize my questions below to make it easier for those who have the knowledge and kindness to answer them




  1. I am paying out of pocket to take these prereqs. I have been told that certain credit of course load is very important. It does seem a tad hard to take about 2-3 science courses at around 14 credits. But mostly, must I spend the money out of pocket to “fill” every semester to about 14-15 credits?


    This semester for example, I have maybe about 9 credits, but my Data Analysis course for sociology has a graduate requirement which was a 2 semester long research project, and my proposal is due April. This is actually quite time consuming. Last semester, I had 14 credits, but felt much more than that due to preparing for my proposal, 40 page thesis/research paper, going thru IRB approvals etc.

  2. I have gotten a B in both Bio I and chem 1 B (not even chem 2). Is this a bad indication?

  3. Would you recommend taking up to Calculus I?

  4. I am planning to (if things go well this semester and summer) take Organic Chem 1 and Calculus in the same semester. Is this a bad idea? Manageable? Note: My worst subject is math.

  5. My current GPA, if you read my story is very very low. my 3-4 year GPA is about 3.4, but overall is 2.78. This is NOT including AMCAS GPA calculation. So it may be even lower.


    I could definitely bring it up to AMCAS standards to about 3.0-3.2 but that is about it. My bad grades skew my bell curve (for stats fans) tremendously, so the diminishing returns after 3.0 is great. I would need about 3-4 more years taking 14-15 credit hours per semester just to get it up to about 3.4-3.5 when I calculated it.


    What should I do in this situation? One of my premed counselors told me, just focus on my upward trend for now, and worry about that later.

  6. I thought if I 4.0-ed every prereqs I could convince AMCAS/AACOMAS, but I feel it is easier said than done. Anyone willing to give me some studying advice to someone who has little science background, I would very much appreciate it

  7. I will be pretty much done with prereqs in 2015 Fall. I would be able to take some subjects such as Microbiology, Biochemistry (required for 2015+), genetics, but nothing more due to my schedule and financial situation currently. Should I try to take more upper level science courses that are NOT prereqs? This means maybe extending a semester or two, pulling out loans etc. I planned to take the MCAT 2016 spring and see from there.

  8. Speaking of MCAT, when is a ideal time to take it? I have yet to take Physics, Biology 2, and organic chemisty 1 and 2.

  9. To oldpremeds who failed to get in the first time. I am not being low in confidence, but realistically I don’t think I will make it the first cycle. What have many of you who got in the second cycle do in order to up the application? I thought about SMP, but after doing some research, it seems like a pretty narrow and terrible option (grade inflation, cost etc.)

  10. Lastly, as older students, how did you handle your ECs? I tried joining the premedical clubs, but to be honest the “kids” seemed way to obnoxious and even cutthroat/super competitive with each other for my liking (lots of drama believe it or not). I volunteer at a free clinic for poverty level families currently once a week or so during semester (more during breaks) since last year.


    Thank you so much for reading my wall of words haha. I am just too happy I found this site and had tons of questions specifically for people in my shoes. I have asked these questions around tons of times, but most advisors told me honestly they have not had someone who is older come to pursue medical school.



2

That’s quite a journey! Your post was somewhat meandering, so I’m going to try my best to separate out your questions and respond to them piecemeal.

Sumini wrote:
As I have stated, I have had a pretty weird circumstance, so I wanted some tips from some of the people on this board. I know at the least, many of you decide to go to medical school later at least, and have some sort of story. Although, I noticed alot of old premeds are very smart, have gotten good grades their post bacc. etc. I feel somewhat left out because of my academic history. Heck, alot of premed advisors felt I was joking at times, and even have gotten angry at me for wanting to pursue medical school. Despite having thought the path of medical school for almost a year, researching and contemplating, I don't know how many times I have gotten condescending remarks about how I probably have no idea what medical school requirements are like, and just want to be a doctor. Quite the contrary, almost everyday I used to think of reasons NOT to be one, yet I still feel I want to.


You big issue is that you're still figuring things out. The biggest thing you need to do at the moment is calm down a bit. Take a few deep breathes. Relax. It sounds less like you don't know what you're getting into and more like you're feeling a little to frantic to process things.

I definitely hear you on the concern with how great everyone else's credentials are. If it make you feel better, my undergraduate record featured:

  • 11 semesters
  • 2 colleges
  • 5 academic advisors
  • 6 majors



For extra fun, my first and last majors were both biology. I remember telling my fiancee over lunch one day I was changing my major (again) to biology. She found this hilarious and said "And the circle is complete."

Oh, my credentials? As per AMCAS, my undergrad GPA is 2.59 (not a typo). I'll admit that I'm not yet in medical school, so I can't tell you that yes, such low numbers can definitely be overcome. However I've since gotten into/through an MS program and I'm not in my dream PhD program. I've been told by professors (one who sits on an ADCOM), that with my credentials when I finish the PhD I should expect multiple schools to pursue me. These people are aware of my undergraduate issues.

That's not to say that being able to succeed in spite of a lot of challenges like I've had is probable. You need to do a really sober analysis of the risk, the chances of success, and where you'll be left if you aren't successful. Then and only then can you determine if it's a worthwhile endeavor.
Sumini wrote:
1. I am paying out of pocket to take these prereqs. I have been told that certain credit of course load is very important. It does seem a tad hard to take about 2-3 science courses at around 14 credits. But mostly, must I spend the money out of pocket to "fill" every semester to about 14-15 credits?

This semester for example, I have maybe about 9 credits, but my Data Analysis course for sociology has a graduate requirement which was a 2 semester long research project, and my proposal is due April. This is actually quite time consuming. Last semester, I had 14 credits, but felt much more than that due to preparing for my proposal, 40 page thesis/research paper, going thru IRB approvals etc.


How much stuff it's evident you're doing is what's important. It's a bit unfortunate because I hear what you're saying and it sounds like you're doing a lot more work than 9ish credits "sounds" like. Do your best, and consider using the experience to also get a letter of recommendation and/or a good talking point for your personal statement. The things you're talking about- preparing a 40 page thesis, presenting to the IRB, those are good qualifications you're earning. Find a way to make them count in your narrative.
Sumini wrote:
2. I have gotten a B in both Bio I and chem 1 B (not even chem 2). Is this a bad indication?


I tend to use the phrase "not optimal." It's not good. But it's not something that can't be overcome. That said, it is something that needs to be overcome, whereas A/A- grades wouldn't be.

Your bigger concern is something I'll come back to in response to question 5.
Sumini wrote:
3. Would you recommend taking up to Calculus I?


If I remember correctly, you need a semester of calculus for most medical schools. So plan to take it. Also, considering question 4, I'm not totally sure I understand the question.
Sumini wrote:
4. I am planning to (if things go well this semester and summer) take Organic Chem 1 and Calculus in the same semester. Is this a bad idea? Manageable? Note: My worst subject is math.


This is difficult for me to answer because math and calc have always come naturally to me. I would say that your comfort with precalculus will strongly predict how comfortable you'll be with calculus. If you're finding that precalc is going well, expect a similar work/return ratio in calculus. Note one thing: there is absolutely NO falling behind in calculus. You get the flu? Come to class with a garbage can.

If you can, get in touch with the professor and find out if Calc 1 will have series/sequences. This is by far the hardest part of Calc 1/2. If it's in Calc 1, tread carefully.
Sumini wrote:
5. My current GPA, if you read my story is very very low. my 3-4 year GPA is about 3.4, but overall is 2.78. This is NOT including AMCAS GPA calculation. So it may be even lower.


You're going to have an issue that short of some amazing credentials (eg, a few years in the Peace Corps, publications in Nature, etc) a lot of MD schools will not consider you with your overall GPA, period. There will probably be cases where you receive a rejection letter dated the day after you submitted the final components of your application. You need to accept these limitations and work within them. You'll be more competitive applying to DO programs, which will calculate your GPA with grade replacement (eg, took Bio 201 twice = only the second sitting is counted) and are much more amenable to considering your journey and the student you are now versus the student you were 10 years ago.
Sumini wrote:
I could definitely bring it up to AMCAS standards to about 3.0-3.2 but that is about it. My bad grades skew my bell curve (for stats fans) tremendously, so the diminishing returns after 3.0 is great. I would need about 3-4 more years taking 14-15 credit hours per semester just to get it up to about 3.4-3.5 when I calculated it.

What should I do in this situation? One of my premed counselors told me, just focus on my upward trend for now, and worry about that later.


I'm in agreement with this. My pathway is similar. I can't make schools ignore the fact I got C's in Genetics and Oceanography back in 2006. But I can hope that they'll put more stock in rhe A/A-'s I got in Medical Protozoology and Tropical Microbial Diseases taken in 2013.

I think one big issue is that you have a plan but it isn't goal-oriented. You're doing things and just hoping it'll turn out to be enough. What you need to do is work backwards. Figure out what credentials you need to earn to apply to medical school, then make a plan to earn them that you can check yourself against as you proceed.
Sumini wrote:
6. I thought if I 4.0-ed every prereqs I could convince AMCAS/AACOMAS, but I feel it is easier said than done. Anyone willing to give me some studying advice to someone who has little science background, I would very much appreciate it

Sumini wrote:
7. I will be pretty much done with prereqs in 2015 Fall. I would be able to take some subjects such as Microbiology, Biochemistry (required for 2015+), genetics, but nothing more due to my schedule and financial situation currently. Should I try to take more upper level science courses that are NOT prereqs? This means maybe extending a semester or two, pulling out loans etc. I planned to take the MCAT 2016 spring and see from there.


Upper level science courses are always good, provided you do well in them. Consider them put-up-or-shut-up opportunities. If your performance in your basic courses was mediocre, doing well in upper division courses will help quiet any questions about your abilities. But, doing poorly will make the pit deeper to dig out of. In your situation I would suggest going for it. You seem to have a lot of questions about your abilities. Paying to take a microbiology and a genetics course may well help you determine if you want to go through the academic rigor of med school.
Sumini wrote:
8. Speaking of MCAT, when is a ideal time to take it? I have yet to take Physics, Biology 2, and organic chemisty 1 and 2.


When you've done adequate preparation to earn the score you need for an acceptance, and not a moment sooner. Figure out what kind of score you need, and the point you're ready to take it is the point you're earning that score on practice tests.
Sumini wrote:
9. Lastly, as older students, how did you handle your ECs? I tried joining the premedical clubs, but to be honest the "kids" seemed way to obnoxious and even cutthroat/super competitive with each other for my liking (lots of drama believe it or not). I volunteer at a free clinic for poverty level families currently once a week or so during semester (more during breaks) since last year.


Perfect. Keep doing that. I'll tell you that regularity is more important than quantity as well.

I hear you on the "kids" and their attitudes. The attitudes of pre-med students when I was at TCNJ was so offputting that I stopped thinking about med school for two whole years.
3

Thank you so much for the reply. I think I was overexcited and just dumped a bunch of questions, plus it was late.


Awake and feeling fresh, I can tell you have made specific plans of schedules, course loads, even backup plans.


I guess I am most worried about how to overcome my slump. As you know, medical schools simply will not accept certain cut offs (especially if the school HAS a cutoff at all).


The only way i can see myself overcoming this is doing my best from now until the end. I do not have an option to get into a science based ph.d. program because my undergrad major is Sociology. So I guess I felt a bit worried as to what would be the best course of action.


“Unfortunately,” I really won’t know until the last moment I take the MCAT if I have a chance or not. When I do bad, I could give up and be “safe,” but I have gotten out of pretty bad situations such as scoring a 53% in an exam, then a 101 (extra credit), 98 and 94 in finals to get an A with a replaced grade for science courses.


So it is definitely a bit scary having to try my utmost best until the end, because I do not know if I will make it or fail. And the thoughts of failure isn’t simply disappointment, but having to find a new academic career path at that point.



4
  • Sumini Said:
The only way i can see myself overcoming this is doing my best from now until the end. I do not have an option to get into a science based ph.d. program because my undergrad major is Sociology. So I guess I felt a bit worried as to what would be the best course of action.



There's an amount of "never say never" here. In in an infectious disease department. I know a girl who got into our Master's program whose undergrad major was Anthropology. Of course, YMMV. My department is an unusual fusion of a bunch of different things. Still, don't underestimate where you can go. As yourself what credentials you would need to go somewhere and then determine what you would need to do to get them.

  • Sumini Said:
"Unfortunately," I really won't know until the last moment I take the MCAT if I have a chance or not. When I do bad, I could give up and be "safe," but I have gotten out of pretty bad situations such as scoring a 53% in an exam, then a 101 (extra credit), 98 and 94 in finals to get an A with a replaced grade for science courses.



You should know how well you'll do on the MCAT before you go in, provided you've been taking sufficient practice tests.
5

thanks again and again for replies and great info.