Help me decide....

Hi, I’m 34 married with a 4yr old. Here is my background -


Undergrad in Optometry from a foreign university and master in healthcare administration from UNC. Working for 7 yrs now in healthcare management but could not let go of the desire to be a doctor. I figured I need to explore it fully now or just let it go for good since i am not getting any younger.


So glad I found this site and read and got inspired by so many people here. MCAT does not sacre me, but reading that many folks had to take some advanced level credits to get qualified for med school does.


Since I have a masters from US…would that help?


What is the average time needed to prepare for MCAT if you have been out of touch with Bio/Physics for about 10 years.


Any site that explains fully on pre reqisites etc?


I know its 4 yrs of med school + is it 4-6 yrs of internship and then another 4 yrs of residency …is it true?


Your thoughts and advise will help me a lot to explore this lifelong ambition of mine and go with full heart in it…thanks in advance


JK

  • In reply to:
So glad I found this site and read and got inspired by so many people here. MCAT does not sacre me, but reading that many folks had to take some advanced level credits to get qualified for med school does. Since I have a masters from US...would that help?



The reason many people take advanced level credits is to make them more competitive. People whose original degrees were non-science or had poor original undergrad GPAs are those who most need to take and do well in upper level science courses. The other group of people who tend to need to take upper level courses are those who have older pre-reqs and need to show they still have the ability to do well in coursework.

Of bigger concern is your foreign undergrad. Some med schools will not accept a foreign undergrad. Others will accept it, but will still require you to have taken anywhere from 30 to 90 hours of credits at a US school. Many people with foreign undergrad degrees end up doing a new degree in the US because of the difficulties of getting accepted with a foreign degree - you will need to get your degree evaluated by a reputable company (which can be costly and take a long time), the grades at foreign university tend to not translate competitively into US grades. You may find yourself needing to retake the pre-reqs in the US.

Your masters is probably not going to help much (if at all), especially since it is not a hard science masters. Grade inflation is rampant in graduate school, and it's a lot more difficult to compare grad school grades from lots of different schools/programs than it is to compare grades in the pre-reqs.

I highly suggest (as a first step) that you start calling several medical schools that you are interested in and asking for their input on your situation.

  • In reply to:
What is the average time needed to prepare for MCAT if you have been out of touch with Bio/Physics for about 10 years.



It varies from person to person. As mentioned above, the age of your courses (plus the fact they're from a foreign university) is a concern. Most med schools prefer recent coursework. A few will state that pre-reqs should be no more than 5-7 years old. Again, I think you should call some med schools, but your best course of action is probably going to be to repeat the pre-reqs and take some advanced coursework. Not only will retaking the pre-reqs help prepare you for the MCAT, it will help give med schools a better way to compare you to other applicants. Additionally, biology has changed significantly over the past few years and and most people feel that you should at a minimum retake biology.

  • In reply to:
Any site that explains fully on pre reqisites etc?



There are a number of websites that do so. Google "medical school pre-requisites". In addition, there is a book called "Medical School Admissions Requirements" (or MSAR for short) published by the AAMC the lists the pre-reqs for all of the med schools, average stats of the applicants/acceptees, etc, etc. You can buy it online. Nearly all medical schools put their pre-requisites on their websites as well.

At a minimum, nearly all schools require the following:

one year of biology with lab

one year of general chemistry with lab

one year of organic chemistry with lab

one year of physics with lab.

Some schools require other things such as biochemistry, calculus, anatomy, microbiology, or statistics in addition to above. Many schools also specify a year of English composition courses.

  • In reply to:
I know its 4 yrs of med school + is it 4-6 yrs of internship and then another 4 yrs of residency ...is it true?



No. Internship is the first year of residency. For some specialties, the intern year is separate from your residency, but now most residencies have incorporated the intern year making a formal "intern year" obsolete. So, you are looking at 4 years of medical school plus 3-8 years of residency, depending on the specialty. Specialties such as family medicine, internal medicine, most emergency medicine programs, pediatrics are 3 years. OB/gyn, psych, PMR, anesthesia, neurology are usually 4 years. Radiology is five. General surgery used to be 5, but more and more programs are now 6 years. Neurosurgery is 7-8 years.

After you complete your residency (of 3-8 years), many people then go on to do a fellowship in a subspecialty. Fellowships are typically 1-3 years. So, for example, if you wanted to be a cardiologist, you would complete a 3 year internal medicine residency, and then a 2 year cardiology fellowship. If you wanted to do interventional cardiology (heart caths, etc), you would do additional training. If you wanted to be a heart surgeon, you would complete a general surgery residency and then a cardiothoracic fellowship. To become a specialist in anything pediatric is typically 6 years - 3 years of a peds residency and then 3 years of peds fellowship training.

Hope that answers your questions. Before you start prepping for the MCAT, you really need to determine if you are going to have to do a US undergrad degree or courses. I suspect that given the age of your original degree and the fact that it's from a foreign university, schools are going to say you need to at LEAST retake the pre-reqs and a few upper level courses, but you will need to call individual schools for their input.

Welcome to OPM!

Thank you for such a detailed response.


You are correct I most probably have to take a lot of pre-reqs before I apply which does disappoint me since I have spent all the years of my education in science and carrer in healthcare. That might be a big factor that I discourages me to move forward.


Would you think it is possible to most of the pre-reqs and prepare for MCAT in a year and apply to Med schools by next fall…or is that too aggresive timeline?

  • jyo22 Said:
Would you think it is possible to most of the pre-reqs and prepare for MCAT in a year and apply to Med schools by next fall...or is that too aggresive timeline?



If you're just starting now, it's going to be difficult (if not impossible) to be ready to apply by next fall. Most schools will not allow you to take general chemistry and organic chemistry together (thus necessitating two years to complete the chemistry requirement), although if you've already taken these courses at a foreign university, you might get a waiver. The other consideration is that trying to take all or most of the pre-reqs in one year is a very heavy load. You need to do very well in these courses. You also need to allow adequate time for MCAT prep. Most people advise treating MCAT prep as the equivalent of one course equivalent.

Some other factors - application starts in summer. The longer you wait from when the application season opens to submit your application, MCAT scores, etc, the more of a disadvantage you will be at as medical schools schedule interviews and accept students as the applications come in. Additionally, if you have not already registered for courses, it's going to be extremely difficult to get enrolled in courses for fall semester (many colleges have already started).

Realistically, I think you are looking at a minimum of two years of coursework, MCAT prep before you are ready to apply. Of course, that also assumes that the schools you are applying to are willing to accept your foreign degree.

Your situation is pretty much like mine although with some differences.


1- I have a PhD in Biochem from Europe and an MBA from the USA. The MBA doesn’t help at all.


2- The foreign undergrad is practically not accepted at all anywhere and I am taking the basic core of sciences.


3- Now I have talked to some adcoms. In my case, and because I have close to 20 publications (some of which are top-notch) in science, a patent and a few awards, and because I also have a PhD (and I am also teaching Biology) I will have the adcom look at my foreign stuff. Yet I have to complete some pre-reqs.


4- Your credentials MUST be evaluated by a reputable company (I am in the middle of the process). It is not very costly (about $200), but it WILL TAKE A LOT OF TIME. I have been in the process for 3 months and it won’t be completed before end of the year or so.


I have a lot to support my application and provided I can ace the MCAT, then I would say that given my own situation (and at least at the schools I target), my heavy background and various achievements (and I don’t want to sound to pretentious) in the sciences will help mitigate my foreign education.


It is true like Emergency said that grades in foreign countries do not compare favorably with US ones. For instance I have graduated 4th/110 students for my bachelors, 5th/140 for my master and 1st/15 for my post-graduate degree.% My grades in all of these would be on average a D (like between 60% and 75%). I retook Gen Chem I and OChem 1 so far with an average of 107% or so in each.


So different systems, different countries. It is in your best interest to take the pre-reqs, do very well and ace the MCAT. This way, you can demonstrate that you are competitive.


Oh and I am 35, I have two kids (4yo and a 9 months old).


Hope this helps.