Hello!
I have just discovered this website while doing some research on premed education. This is a wonderful site for people like me who are pursuing a medical career post-graduation.
I am currently 23, and have just graduated from a University of California school in September with a B.A. in Psychology. I am very interested in pursuing a career in Psychiatry and am planning to fulfill the prerequisite courses informally through the Extension program of my university.
My undergrad GPA is 3.5 and so far I have only taken two quarters (out of three) of General Chemistry (a C and a B+) and one quarter (out of three) of Biology (an A). I have taken a year of Calculus and didn’t do too well in it = (, and Statistics in which I got an A.
I have volunteered at our school’s medical center for the summer, and am planning to volunteer in other hospitals. I’ve gained leadership experience as a live-in Resident Advisor for first year undergrads.
I am wondering if I have a chance at Medical School? I’ve been thinking about a medical career my entire life but my parents were not supportive as it is expensive and time consuming. I want to pursue this dream now that I can support myself financially (my parents paid for my undergrad education). However, from reading the forums, we are advised to take our prereq courses as a full time student… would my working part time to pay for these classes be a negative factor in the application process? What kind of score should I aim for on the MCAT? and any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much for reading my long post! I hope everyone had a great holiday season!
Best Wishes,
Katie = )
Welcome to the forum!
I’m sure Amy will be by to answer your question in detail. 
My part to play is to advise you to search the forum. Your questions are actually asked almost daily and your situation is not entirely unique.
Joe Wright wrote a very good explanation of what psychiatry is truly going to be like so you might want to search for his posts.
Taking classes parttime is only a plus for the student. However it also not seen entirely as a negative. Depends on your application package and schools you apply to. In a perfect world you would do better by taking our prereqs fulltime. However this is real life so you do what you can. My advice…if you can manage fulltime then go fulltime.
Aiming for a particular score on the MCAT, I’ve been told is pointless. Know your basic sciences, take plenty of practice exams, perhaps fork the dough for a Kaplan MCAT course, and then “do the dang thing”. Naturally the higher the better however 28-35 is about the range that seems to work.
My best advice it search, read, post, search, read, post…rinse & repeat. There is tons of info here and the reality is that the best and most knowledgeable are now in the trenches of med school, residency, fellowship, or attendings… so have little time to post.
Thanks so much croooz! I’m still looking through all the posts but thank you so much for giving me some direction in my search. =D It really helps to hear from others.
Thanks again!
Welcome, Katie.
I was actually hoping maybe someone else would jump in and answer some of your questions. But, since I have yet to motivate myself to start my post-break studying, I guess I’ll make an attempt to answer.
It’s far too early in the process for anyone to say you don’t have a chance at medical school. Your overall GPA isn’t TOO bad. However, you already have some things working against you. The first is that you live in/are apparently a resident of California. California is a notoriously competitive state for applying to medical schools and applying as an out-of-state resident in other parts of the country can also be extremely competitive. The second is that your BCPM (biology, chemistry, physics, math) GPA doesn’t appear to be so hot. This GPA is often more important than your overall GPA. If you got lower than a C in calculus, you might want to consider retaking. The improvement from a C to a B+ in Chemistry is a plus.
Your volunteering experience looks good. You may want to consider looking for some clinical experiences, research experiences, and shadowing experiences. You might also want to consider doing a throrough exploration of the differences between psychiatry and psychology. What is it about the thought of being a psychiatrist that appeals to you more than the thought of being a psychologist? This is a question that may come up in the future, so it is probably something that you should investigate and prepare responses for.
As for the full-time/part-time question . . . there’s no easy answer to that. Ideally, you could take the pre-reqs full time and this helps to prove to adcoms that you can handle a rigorous course load. However, if you have to work, you have to work. You are also better off taking 2 science courses in a term and doing very well in them than taking a heavier load and not doing so well. Keep in mind that your average traditional student doesn’t usually take a full time load of hard science classes, so if you are working a fair amount and taking a couple of classes and doing well, you should be fine.
As for the MCAT - you are still aways off from needing to start the serious MCAT worrying. At this point, the best thing you can do is start investigating medical schools. Do some investigation into osteopathic schools and determine if applying to osteo schools as well as or instead of allo schools appeals to you. Do NOT be sucked into the anti-osteo threads on SDN. Check out a copy of the MSAR (Medical School Admissions Requirements) published by the AAMC. Most college libraries keep the most recent copy in their reference section. The MSAR lists course requirements (many schools are starting to require biochem) and also gives stats for applicants, average MCAT scores and the like. Obviously, you want to do the best you possibly can on the MCAT, but by doing your research you will get a good idea of what is required to be a competitive applicant at various schools. For example, at my school the average MCAT is around a 32. However, the average MCAT and GPA for out-of-state applicants is higher than that because admission as an out-of-state student is very competitive (moreso than application as an in-state student).
Hope that gives you somewhere to start. Browse the forums. Personally, I have never had much success in figuring out the search function, but there is a ton of great advice and there have been numerous posts on the nitty gritty details of preparing to apply and actually applying. The more research you do, the better prepared you will be for the whole process.
Good luck!
Thanks so much for your reply, Emergency! =D It really helps to hear from others.
I have a few more questions regarding your response. The Calculus classes I took were for Engineering majors (I used to be a Computer Science major), should I retake the Calculus series for Engineers? (I had a B-, C-, and a C for the 3 quarters series.)
I have yet to take Physics, or any of the upper division Biology or Chemistry classes. I heard that taking a few more upper division science courses would better prepare me for the MCAT. Would a NPB class grade be counted towards the BCPM score?
What kind of research experience is recommended? I have been a research assistant for two professors but they are for the short term. Where should I look to find better research experience?
Finally, I am not feeling very confident about my chances, seeing how poorly I did as an undergrad (due to personal reasons… death in the family etc…). If I make a significant improvement, GPA- wise, on the rest of the premed classes (Physics, upper division Bio and O-cham) would my not so excellent undergrad transcript still have a big affect on my chances of admission into an allopathic medical school?
Thank you so much to everyone who have responded! I really, really appreciate your help.
~ Katie =D
- Katie Said:
I have a few more questions regarding your response. The Calculus classes I took were for Engineering majors (I used to be a Computer Science major), should I retake the Calculus series for Engineers? (I had a B-, C-, and a C for the 3 quarters series.)
I have yet to take Physics, or any of the upper division Biology or Chemistry classes. I heard that taking a few more upper division science courses would better prepare me for the MCAT. Would a NPB class grade be counted towards the BCPM score?
What kind of research experience is recommended? I have been a research assistant for two professors but they are for the short term. Where should I look to find better research experience?
Finally, I am not feeling very confident about my chances, seeing how poorly I did as an undergrad (due to personal reasons... death in the family etc...). If I make a significant improvement, GPA- wise, on the rest of the premed classes (Physics, upper division Bio and O-cham) would my not so excellent undergrad transcript still have a big affect on my chances of admission into an allopathic medical school?
Thank you so much to everyone who have responded! I really, really appreciate your help.
~ Katie =D
Katie, I may not be the best person to ask since I'm still pre-med myself and haven't "made it" yet, but from what I gather any research experience is just icing on the cake...it's not required by any means. The only thing that's really required outside the college classes themselves are clinical experience and volunteering.
As far as poor undergrad performance goes, I've heard time and time again of people taking post-bacc programs, doing well in them, and getting into medical school. Now, also from what I hear post-bacc programs are extremely expensive, so I'm not sure what the best option would be for you. However, I think you'd have a great chance if you did well in whatever classes you do take. Sure, you'll have to explain the poor undergrad performance, but you got the good grades to show that you changed and plenty of people have gotten in with a similar situation.
As far as calculus classes goes, I'm not sure you can retake a class if you've gotten a C or better in it...I don't think California schools allow that and I live here so I'm pretty sure they're all like that but hey I could be wrong. If you can retake them, as in you're allowed to, I would recommend it yes. Otherwise, just do good in the other BCPM classes to make up for it.
Lastly, on the NPB class, I would think it would count as a biology course yes since it's basically just advanced biology.
Anyway, I hope the information helps, good luck!! Oh, if you want to share any experiences about undergrad, let me know. I'm majoring in psychology myself and transferring to UC Davis the school year after next so I'd love to hear about what I'm going to get to do.
Katie,
Welcome to OldPreMeds! I am one of those “in the trenches” characters who Croooz refers to & he is unfortunately ‘on the money’ when he says we trench warriors struggle to have the time to devote to this organization.
First, I want to give you some general purpose advice. There are a couple of principles that you will have to accept - one of which is that the past is passed & there’s not one thing you can do to change it. Do not waste your energies lamenting over things you cannot change. Second, do not fall into the hazard of seeking specific numbers - unless, of course, you are one of those numbers-driven students that are truly inspired & driven by numbers. Do not confuse this with the typical pre-med’s obscession with “What numbers/grades/scores do I need to get into medical school?”
Now, referring to the specifics that you have provided - you have a solid/competitive cumGPA, but there are some warts in your pre-reqs. This is far from repairable. You simply must finish them by doing the best that you are capable of doing. And follow through by taking some more advanced coursework - BioChem, Genetics, Moleculer & Cellular Bio… - and continuing to perform at your best. Study your derriere off for the MCAT & do your best (are you beginning to notice a theme?).
MCAT prep - to do your best, you simply must facilitate things such as to maximize your preparatory efforts. If that means no classes & a skeletonized work schedule - then that is what it takes. Only you know you well enough to know what is required. But, suffice it to say - you must be earnest & objective in your assessment - that takes a lot of intestinal fortitude & maturity…and maybe some creative budget work too.
Regarding working while a student: my feelings on this have been posted in many situations here, but here they are again - I am most happy to run my mouth about them :D!
One - focus on structuring your life to allow you to do your personal best academically.
Two - Know that there are requisite sacrifices & an immense workload that must be done and there no shortcuts.
Three - There are no shortcuts. Shortcuts = throwing yourself into a pitfall. Do NOT screw up this opportunity by trying to cut corners for expedience.
Four - There are many many ways to skin this cat!
Five - As an applicant to medical school [this is 500% true for trads & non-trads], you do not & will not receive any brownie points or extra credit for your ‘life experience’ - no matter how intriguing. No variety or quantity of experiences will make up for less-than-competitive GPA/MCAT or weak Letters of Reference. However, if you are able to achieve a competitive academic application, then (& only then) those same life experiences can & will substantially strengthen your application.
Again, welcome to OldPreMeds. Invest your time on here wisely - there is a veritable gold mine of info within these fora (is that the actual plural for forum?) and is well worth the expenditure of your valuable free time. And, you should strongly consider attending our 2007 Conference & Workshops in Chicago, IL the 7th thru the 10th of June 2007.
- Quote:
As far as calculus classes goes, I'm not sure you can retake a class if you've gotten a C or better in it...I don't think California schools allow that and I live here so I'm pretty sure they're all like that but hey I could be wrong. If you can retake them, as in you're allowed to, I would recommend it yes. Otherwise, just do good in the other BCPM classes to make up for it.
Something to consider: most med schools will not accept a C- grade as fulfilling the pre-req. I don't know if you can retake a class at a UC school in which you received a C grade (not something that you want to do), but you might have to repeat the C- class. BTW, AMCAS averages ALL grades, including the original grade (even if it doesn't appear on the transcript...you have to declare it anyway) and the repeated grade. So there isn't much reason to repeat a class in which you received a C. It's better to take an upper division course in the same area (and do well).
Cheers,
Judy
- jcolwell Said:
- Quote:
As far as calculus classes goes, I'm not sure you can retake a class if you've gotten a C or better in it...I don't think California schools allow that and I live here so I'm pretty sure they're all like that but hey I could be wrong. If you can retake them, as in you're allowed to, I would recommend it yes. Otherwise, just do good in the other BCPM classes to make up for it.
Something to consider: most med schools will not accept a C- grade as fulfilling the pre-req. I don't know if you can retake a class at a UC school in which you received a C grade (not something that you want to do), but you might have to repeat the C- class. BTW, AMCAS averages ALL grades, including the original grade (even if it doesn't appear on the transcript...you have to declare it anyway) and the repeated grade. So there isn't much reason to repeat a class in which you received a C. It's better to take an upper division course in the same area (and do well).
Cheers,
Judy
hmmmm....
1. Yes, you should definitely retake if you have the option; and
2. Although AMCAS averages, AACOMAS (the DO answer to "we want a centralized system too!") *replaces* any retakes. That's right, your AACOMAS gpa's will not even take into account your previous grade. Personally, I love that stuff! You can't beat it! Is it fair? Probably not, but who cares. It gets you that DO degree, if that's what you want.
mdjd