hope, really?

I’ve read some stories of people on here succeeding with gpas below 2, getting put on academic probation and then thrown out of school, then coming back to school years later and get into med school. I’m not one of them.


I graduated with a 2.2 in 2004 (7 years since my last class), and did the prerequisites (BSci and Chemistry major). I didnt care much about my studies grades, but liked the topics, and arrogantly assumed that I would be viewed upon in a different light as my studies were not in a humanities major.


now I’m hearing that a post-baccalaureate doesnt matter, I have so many credits and poor grades from the past so I have no hope to change my gpa from where it is unless I take 4 college degrees over.


I’ve read here that med schools will rarely take anyone who is below 3, and never take anyone below a 2.9. I will NEVER achieve that with 4.0’s within 16 years of schooling. I’m finding that I’m boxed in permanently because of a history.


If anyone has any GENUINE point of hope, please share it.

yes, there is genuine hope. You have a lot of work to do. Your best bet is to get some advice from a professional pre-med counselor. It could be Judy or it could be a local medical school if they offer it.


My advice is to contact Judy.

• keen_arene Said:

Oh my, you have FUDD with a double "DD": Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt and Despair. You sound like you have been rejected by every medical school on the planet and have yet to apply. Before you jump to any conclusions based on less than accurate information (and jump off any bridges from actual despair), Rule 1: take a breath and lets examine whats up.

• keen_arene Said:

past mistake, your right in itself it can't be changed. However, it sounds like you are trying to move forward but keep looking back over your shoulder. Gotta look forward to go forward

• keen_arene Said:

and who are you hearing that from? How reliable, knowledgeable and accurate is the source? Some young college sophomore on another premed site? Perhaps a college advisor, many of whom think that 27 is just way to old to start medical school? Or just your conclusions based on fears?

• keen_arene Said:

You are certainly boxed in by your own thoughts and fears. Can we help you open the box and let you out?

• keen_arene Said:

Here are a few bits of accurate information:

1) There are over 125 post-bacc programs in the country. While most are looking for students with good to great backgrounds, there are several, typically the special master programs designed to revive a low GPA.

2) While MD the application mechanics account for every course ever taken, the DO-Osteopathic system allows grades in courses that are repeated to replace earlier crappy grades. Now imagine what that might do for part of your GPA

3) Post bacc grades are reported both separately and combined with earlier work. So I think an adcom would notice an original GPA of 2.2 and a post bacc of 45 credits or more at say a 3.7 GPA.

4) And who's to say that if you combine a great post-bacc with a stellar MCAT score, what the would the result would be

5) Imagine the potentially compelling narrative if the above GPA and other transformations over what will be nearly a decade since college that you could present.

Are you facing a long hard path? Absolutely.

Are your chances much lower than a typical applicant? Probably so.

Do I think it's hopeless? Not at all.

If you don't prepare, work hard, spend long hours, and never apply, I promise that your chances are zero.

If you do work hard, study your butt off, spend hours in the book, blow away the MCAT, write a compelling personal statement and have a smashing interview that you might, I said might, be called doctor one day.

Or would rather sit in regret the rest of your life and never even attempt to apply? If you have decided you can't do something before you even try, then you already have failed.

Now wipe your tears away, and get to work. If this has come off too harsh, I apologize, but as my Dad would say, you needed a good, swift kick in the pants

PS: and I didn't even mention caribbean schools

thanks for responding. I have started the process with a premed counselor at my old university. She has explained that med applications are increasing, and my 2.2 is not going to help.


What I’ve noticed on these sites is that schools look at OVERALL gpa…and have not accepted students with an OVERALL below a certain threshold. Given my circumstances, overall gpa for me will approach a 3.0 if I took a number of years at school and earned 134 credit hours of a 4.0 I would just approach a B average.


if they are actually willing to overlook the past, and not take that into account, then why do no students exist with overall gpas below 2.9? Please give me a kick in the pants here… because I’m capable, interested and eager to do this and I know I can, but dont want to waste precious time and effort going to school for a year and a half, earning straight A’s if there’s no chance for me to move forward with med school.


I dont give up easily, but I know what battles are smart to fight for. I got into medical sales, when I had no quantifiable medical experience or sales experience. That took years of guts and alot of risk, plus a move 100% across the country with few friends to aid me. I knew I could do that. Here in medicine, only the best and brightest get to be doctors (and though after working with them, I believe that is debatable, but generally true) and so med schools rightly have a cut off at those they deem lacking.


So just to reiterate my concerns:


1.) is there an automatic GPA no-matter-what cut off where admissions will not even read my application?


2.) if there is no cut off, then do med schools not accept people automatically who have overall gpa’s below 2.8, regardless of post bacc coursework?


3.) if there are no cut offs officially, will one pre-medical post bacc be enough to establish responsibility and ability?


4.) does a post bacc certification make a difference?


thanks for your help. I apologize in advance if this seems from a place of frustration, but becoming something new is a tremendous burst of stress and emotion. Thanks

I graduated my alma mater with a 2.5 cumulative and worked for a number of years. When I came back to school (5-6 years later), I did well. It never erased my old grades, but it did put them in context.


FWIW, two years of post-bacc 4.0 only brought my cumulative GPA up to a 3.0.


See sig for results

• In reply to:

For some schools, yes. There are schools that use GPA as an initial cut-off screening criteria to narrow down applications. However, I know of people who have been rejected from schools based on GPA alone who requested a review of their application and subsequently received interview offers.

When I was taking pre-reqs, I talked to admissions people at a couple of schools. My GPA wasn't quite as low as yours - my cum after 45+ postbacc credits made it up to about a 3.1, but both schools told me that they take the entire application into consideration and that they did not have a GPA cut-off (one of them was Ohio State).

• In reply to:

There is no hard and fast rule. It varies from med school to med school and may even vary from year to year.

• In reply to:

Hard to really answer that as there is no "one size fits all" post-bac. Some people (me) take only the pre-reqs and apply. Other people take the pre-reqs and a number of other upper level science courses to show that they indeed have the academic ability to hack it.

People who have already taken the pre-reqs are the ones who will most likely need to take additional upper level course work, as merely repeating courses that you've already taken doesn't really showcase your academic ability.

• In reply to:

For the most part, no. There might be some exceptions to that rule (certain programs), but it's not a huge deal.

So - as mentioned above - you have a couple of options. One is the DO route. If you retake the pre-reqs and some upper level courses, you could quite possibly have a GPA over 3.0 when they replace your original undergrad grades.

If I were you, I would retake any pre-reqs that you got a C or lower in or that you don't feel you learned enough in to be able to do well in upper level courses on the MCAT.

Then, I would take a number of upper level courses. You should probably try to take at least one or two semesters of a full-time heavy load and do well in order to prove your academic chops. I took calculus, physics (+lab), gen chem (+lab), biology (+lab) for three quarters and organic chemistry w/labs in an 8 week summer session. Med schools definitely noticed that I took such a heavy load and did well. After all, the average pre-med has four years to space the pre-reqs out - very few of them take more than 2 hard science courses a term if they can help it.

Next, rock the MCAT. Take Kaplan, Princeton review, whatever. Do as many practice tests as humanly possible. A great MCAT WILL help your cause a great deal.

Lastly, consider the Caribbean. But, don't give up quite yet on US schools. As mentioned above, you still have a chance. No one can guarantee you that you will get into medical school if you do all of the above, but we can guarantee that if you don't try, you don't have a chance.

Oh - and stay away from the pre-med forums on SDN. Nothing will make you doubt yourself more than reading pre-meds despair that the A- they got in a pre-req is going to keep them out of medical school.

Just to kill at least one myth, the attached table which is solely allopathic MD schools shows that during the years 2007-2009 there were approx 1,100 people accepted to medical school with GPA of 2.99 or less.

Attached files 1273794245-table24-mcatgpagridall2007-09.pdf (179.2 KB)Â

Gonnif. that table is so awesome. I am SO happy to see that it’s possible!


1 person even, at a 1.47-1.99 gpa, who earned a 15-17 on the mcats, got into med school.


It seems the chances are low, but possible…


what troubles me about the #'s is that it seems that people who had mcat scores from 5-14 applied anyway? I’m confused. (are there that many delusional people in this world?)

It happens. A lot of people apply before finding out what their MCAT scores are. I would imagine that most of those people are in that category. And, I’m sure, there are a few who think that the MCAT score really doesn’t matter that much and apply anyways.

so now will you put down the anchor of old past grades and think of what a good postbacc GPA will look like and smashing MCAT. And start understanding that MD and DO are physicians.

Drop the anchor? Of course! I attended a uc berkeley post bacc info session yesterday and learned that I do have a shot. Though post bacc programs probably will not allow me in given the past, but “might” was their answer. I have a meeting with my alma mater’s pre med advisor tues and after that will make some decisions regarding classes, schooling and where.


I may read very negatively, but there is a tremendous amount of misinformation out there, and I am justr trying to sort out fact from fiction.


If I decide to go forward, I most likely will go to the conference. Thanks for bearing with my madness.