Hi, everyone. I’m back. Most of you won’t remember me; I’ve never been a big participant around here. I started posting in fall of 2003, when I was still merely thinking about becoming a doctor. Now, as an applicant to start med school in 2007, I have had 6 interviews, have 1 acceptance from a very good US MD school, 2 waitlists, and am still waiting to hear back from a few post-interview.
Much of what was said in response to my early questions, especially by the “regulars,” was discouraging. See the threads “Is anyone out there doing it totally alone?” and “Getting into a post-bacc and other questions.” In particular, several people berated me for being skeptical about the usefulness of “shadowing” and the purpose of non-medically-related volunteering.
Having run the gauntlet, with an acceptance in hand, I have to say I still think I was right. The small amount of shadowing I wound up doing did not appreciably change my thoughts about medicine either way, and thus was almost totally useless, except in so far as it got me interested in a particular field that I had not thought I’d be interested in, but I would have been exposed to it during 3rd year of med school anyway. Not to say this didn’t come up briefly in interviews, so I reluctantly acknowledge the necessity of doing some shadowing and volunteering, but I still maintain that it is more a hoop to be jumped through than anything. And while I’m sure some non-medical volunteering would only have helped my application, I wound up doing none and still managed to get in somewhere.
So I just wanted to say to any prospective pre-meds out there, who are in the same situation now as I was in 3 years ago, take heart: you don’t have to totally buy into all the liberal feel-good stuff about medicine in order to get into medical school. You do have to jump through the hoops, but you’re not a bad person if you think (as the great njbmd and jcolwell chastised me for saying) that the process is one big game. If you want to become a doctor, and you think you can get A’s in the prereqs and score well on the MCAT, don’t let these people discourage you.
Well I’m glad you made it in! I did too. I’m in a Caribbean school, but I really think because others do not agree with our opinions and paths at times here it’s really bad Karma to come on here to rub it in “Their Faces”. You posted before I joined and I was looked down upon also several times as a Caribbean student but all in all this place helps more then it hurts and some people get very good advice and others it sucks but what do you want for free and others just sharing opinions? I have come a long way and now realize that many here like me and respect me the few that may not (And I think thats very few) do not matter, Maybe if you would have stuck a round for awhile you would have seen that.
Advice here is given with little information about the poster, and then it is generalized at best.
So good luck and congrats but in the end everyone does it without so much others help, it’s your life and your work now go and do well.
I scanned through the posts and this is interesting:
- Quote:
Volunteering is not about learning about medicine, it's about Altruism, your willing to do for others. Thats why Medical Schools look for this quality. Shadowing is also looked well upon not because you will know 100% about what a Doctor does but you will at least be exposed to what some of it is like. The little you did seemed to solidify your commitment and that was good. I think you missed th points and they were opinions based on people who were in and now are MD's and DO's . I volunteered for years for instance but never shadowed since I was an RN.
Being a Physician is not just about Grades and Money its a lot more then that. I'm not doing this for the money it's way down the list.
Old Premeds is a place to share thoughts and not a place that tries to get you into medschool, the advice is free, good or bad, take it as it is.
Good Luck
- Trismegistus Said:
Much of what was said in response to my early questions, especially by the "regulars," was discouraging. See the threads "Is anyone out there doing it totally alone?" and "Getting into a post-bacc and other questions." In particular, several people berated me for being skeptical about the usefulness of "shadowing" and the purpose of non-medically-related volunteering.
Having run the gauntlet, with an acceptance in hand, I have to say I still think I was right. The small amount of shadowing I wound up doing did not appreciably change my thoughts about medicine either way, and thus was almost totally useless, except in so far as it got me interested in a particular field that I had not thought I'd be interested in, but I would have been exposed to it during 3rd year of med school anyway. Not to say this didn't come up briefly in interviews, so I reluctantly acknowledge the necessity of doing some shadowing and volunteering, but I still maintain that it is more a hoop to be jumped through than anything. And while I'm sure some non-medical volunteering would only have helped my application, I wound up doing none and still managed to get in somewhere.
So I just wanted to say to any prospective pre-meds out there, who are in the same situation now as I was in 3 years ago, take heart: you don't have to totally buy into all the liberal feel-good stuff about medicine in order to get into medical school. You do have to jump through the hoops, but you're not a bad person if you think (as the great njbmd and jcolwell chastised me for saying) that the process is one big game. If you want to become a doctor, and you think you can get A's in the prereqs and score well on the MCAT, don't let these people discourage you.
Well, first off, congratulations on the acceptance! That being said, I have to ask, how much shadowing did you do exactly? The reason I'm curious is that I'm finding it an almost impossible task finding a doctor who is both willing to let me shadow him and actually follows through on that. Like you, I also question the validity of it since the process /is/ one big game with a myriad of hoops to jump through.
I'm especially curious whether I can just not do any shadowing at all without significantly hurting my chances since it really is pointless. Especially for me since my stepdad is a dentist and he knows virtually every type of doctor through church, so if I want to know what a certain type of doctor does, all I have to do is make a phone call.
Congratulations! I do not specifically recall the conversation / thread you are referring to, but I can assure you that even though you may not have agreed / accepted the advice tendered to you, it was given with the best of intentions in context with the quantity of info they had about you at the time. Knowing the two you mentioned, I am quite confident there was no malice intended.
Again, congrats! And, if you wish, we are certainly interested in your returning to chronicle your experiences as a med student. Everyone & their opinion - even if it does not concur with the majority - are welcome & of value. Who knows? Some piece of info that you provide may end up being the missing piece for someone else.
Congrats!
Not sure why the “game” comment would be taken so harshly. I equate the process to being a game all the time. We don’t do what we ought to do but we know the adcoms want to see…game. We play by their rules to get into their programs. It’s all a big game that we have to play. I can’t see it as a process because that would make sense with specific rules and such. However when schools tell the same applicant different and sometimes conflicting information you best hope of keeping your sanity is to view as a game and adapt to all the different “rules”.
Congratulations! Come and stay a while. Go ahead and post in the Diaries so we can all enjoy and learn from your game time.
- croooz Said:
I can't see it as a process because that would make sense with specific rules and such.
This may very well be the best quote ever on OPM pertaining to pre-meds.
- whuds Said:
I don't know about that, though. As crooz has pointed out elsewhere, so many pre-meds volunteer only because they know it's a box to be checked on one's med school application, not because they're especially altruistic. I volunteered in an ER for 2 years and enjoyed it somewhat, but it would be ridiculous for me to pretend that I just wanted to do it for it's own sake, and only once I had started doing it did I realize on the basis of the experience that I wanted to be a doctor. Rather, I signed up to do it because I already knew I wanted to apply to med school and I knew it's the kind of thing one has to do in order to get in.
- Tim Said:
I'm especially curious whether I can just not do any shadowing at all without significantly hurting my chances since it really is pointless. Especially for me since my stepdad is a dentist and he knows virtually every type of doctor through church, so if I want to know what a certain type of doctor does, all I have to do is make a phone call.
That can be the tough part. When you say it's difficult to find a doctor who's willing to let you shadow, have you tried these contacts through your stepdad? That's the best way to do it. Everything I did came through personal contacts.
The advice I had seen frequently given on here and on SDN is that you should develop a relationship with certain doctors whom you then shadow on a regular basis over a period of months or years. I did not do that. Every experience I had was a one or two time thing. First, there was my uncle: when he knew I was interested in medicine in high school, he took me on weekend rounds with him once. Then, more recently, when I began to seriously pursue medicine, I was having dinner at his house one weekend when he was on call, so when he got called to go into the hospital and do a few consults he invited me to go with him.
Through him I also met a pulmonologist whom I asked about shadowing, and he set up a day for me to go on morning rounds with him and then spend the afternoon with some family practice docs I knew. Both of those were interesting experiences, but none of those docs seemed amenable to an ongoing relationship, so I sent them thank-you notes and went on my merry way.
The closest thing I had to a repeating experience was when a general surgeon who was a customer of my dad (he renovated his house) invited me to spend a day with him. I did, and that was a thrilling experience. He told me I was welcome to call him later and come back for a second day, so I did. He was a really nice guy and offered to write me a letter of recommendation for my med school application, which I promptly took him up on.
I listed the time with the surgeon on AMCAS; I don't think I listed the pulmonologist or FP and I definitely didn't list anything to do with my uncle.
If you haven't followed up on all of those contacts through your stepdad, I'd recommend doing so. It's a good idea to do something, if only so you can say you've done it. Plus, you might discover you're interested in something you never thought you'd be interested in, as I was with surgery. Remember, you'll probably have more success with docs at teaching hospitals, since they're used to having students following them around.
- Trismegistus Said:
- Tim Said:
I'm especially curious whether I can just not do any shadowing at all without significantly hurting my chances since it really is pointless. Especially for me since my stepdad is a dentist and he knows virtually every type of doctor through church, so if I want to know what a certain type of doctor does, all I have to do is make a phone call.
That can be the tough part. When you say it's difficult to find a doctor who's willing to let you shadow, have you tried these contacts through your stepdad? That's the best way to do it. Everything I did came through personal contacts.
The advice I had seen frequently given on here and on SDN is that you should develop a relationship with certain doctors whom you then shadow on a regular basis over a period of months or years. I did not do that. Every experience I had was a one or two time thing. First, there was my uncle: when he knew I was interested in medicine in high school, he took me on weekend rounds with him once. Then, more recently, when I began to seriously pursue medicine, I was having dinner at his house one weekend when he was on call, so when he got called to go into the hospital and do a few consults he invited me to go with him.
Through him I also met a pulmonologist whom I asked about shadowing, and he set up a day for me to go on morning rounds with him and then spend the afternoon with some family practice docs I knew. Both of those were interesting experiences, but none of those docs seemed amenable to an ongoing relationship, so I sent them thank-you notes and went on my merry way.
The closest thing I had to a repeating experience was when a general surgeon who was a customer of my dad (he renovated his house) invited me to spend a day with him. I did, and that was a thrilling experience. He told me I was welcome to call him later and come back for a second day, so I did. He was a really nice guy and offered to write me a letter of recommendation for my med school application, which I promptly took him up on.
I listed the time with the surgeon on AMCAS; I don't think I listed the pulmonologist or FP and I definitely didn't list anything to do with my uncle.
If you haven't followed up on all of those contacts through your stepdad, I'd recommend doing so. It's a good idea to do something, if only so you can say you've done it. Plus, you might discover you're interested in something you never thought you'd be interested in, as I was with surgery. Remember, you'll probably have more success with docs at teaching hospitals, since they're used to having students following them around.
I have tried contacts through my stepdad to no avail so far. I have tried to set up shadowing with both a dermatologist and a ER doc, and while both of them were fine with it, I never heard back from them. After a few E-mails I decided to leave it alone since I don't want to seem like a badger.
That's pretty much what I figure I'll do is wait until I move to Sacramento and start vollying at Davis Medical Center. I'm sure I'll find someone to shadow there.
Tim,
I would suggest that you try to give them a phone call versus email. Unless they are very familiar with your email address, they may have deleted without opening. I’m sure that you know that there is an awful amount of spam mail that comes through, and probably even more so for physicians. They may have inadvertently deleted your emails, and may even be puzzled why you asked and they haven’t heard from you.
Give them a call, you may be surprised.
Kris
First of all, Trismegistus congratulations on your acceptance! It’s always exciting when OPM’s get acceptances. 
There has been quite a bit of discussion in this thread and others about the importance of shadowing physicians. Others may disagree, but I’m of the opinion that shadowing is an adjunct to regularly being around in-hospital patients, not the end-all be-all for convincing an AdComm that one knows what medicine is all about.
Cheers,
Judy
Judy-
Are you of the opinion that shadowing isn’t necessary if you work in a hospital? I’m a tech in radiology… I assist radiologists with procedures and badger them with questions, and as that sometimes necessitates stalking them throughout the hospital, I am hoping that counts as shadowing. 
I think it would be tough to ‘shadow’ doctors in other departments at my hospital as a) they would probably think it was weird and b) my job would then know that I am thinking about leaving them to go back to school eventually.
What do you think? I deal with tons of patients, in- and out-patients, and daily get lots of the type of patient care (the so-close-you-can-smell-th em type) that people seem to think is valuable…
Sorry to thread hijack, though as the purpose of the thread seemed to be gloating and/or complaining, I’m not sure that’s a bad thing…
slb, I would be very surprised if your work wasn’t seen as both clinical experience and time shadowing. AdComms want to know that an applicant has challenged him/herself in knowing, as much as possible, what medicine is all about. Working in a hospital would generally give you that.
Cheers,
Judy
I’d just like to say congrats and good for you for speaking out about things weren’t to your liking. We’re adults here and should be able to freely express differences of opinion.