When I talk to a non-traditional applicant, whether s/he becomes a client or not, I try to always refer him/her to OPM as a fabulous support group. Please, let’s cut a LOT of slack to everyone in this group. Trying to get into med school is terrifically stressful; try not to let that stress carry over into how you treat others in OPM. I think if we all remember (me included) to only write what we’d be comfortable saying F2F, we’d have a “kinder gentler” forum.
I think if we all remember (me included) to only write what we'd be comfortable saying F2F, we'd have a "kinder gentler" forum.
No doubt, OPM is one of the best if not the best resource on the net for the nontraditional applicant to med school. But I think what often happens on the net on all sites is that statments typed on a computer screen are perceived to be more "harsh" than they would be in F2F conversations. In person, you can assume a persons intent through their body language/facial expressions which obviously can't be considered via internet communication. What I take issue with is that a statement can be "intrepreted" as hostile then used to do harm to another person's future.
In general, taking things less personal and more tongue in cheek is a great way for people to be themselves while engaging in useful discussions.
I think you're absolutely right that people need to be aware of the consequences of what they're saying on the internet. But internet disagreements/debates should not result in an offended participant threatening to make contact with an adcom at an applicants prospective school as was the case for me a little over a year ago on another site in a debate about discrimination in health care.
I say if you're going to "go there", then keeping in this vein of being aware of consequences, people should be aware the result could be civil litigation.
I wasn't trying to imply that people should try to get revenge on posters they didn't like. Doubtless this happens and I hope it didn't damage your rep in any way.
I simply meant that the participants in this type of forum are peers and future colleagues, and therefore this is an opportunity to develop one's professional network. Responding to freely given advice in a less than constructive manner will serve to deprive one of this opportunity. I value the relationships that I have built up during the course of my premedical studies and it's a pity that not everyone sees it this way.
I'm sure not going to go trying to torpedo someone else's future just based on an annoying posting in an internet forum. But, you know, admissions people do read these forums, probably more than we know, and anyone who stands out as having a "difficult" personality may well attract their attention. Whether this is right or not is sort of beside the point; it's a public forum, the proverbial town square, where you are free to get up on your soapbox and opine with all the risks and rewards that entails. And others are free to respond.
I happen to believe that the o.p. has the right to use or discard any of the advice he received, and it sounds like he got impatient with the direction of the thread, decided not to waste any more of his time here, and let the world know in a pretty no-nonsense manner. I respect that, though I would not have phrased things the same way. Each to his own.
I wasn't trying to imply that people should try to get revenge on posters they didn't like.....Doubtless this happens and I hope it didn't damage your rep in any way.
Understood, and I didn't think anything about revenge specifically in regards to your post. But the fact is that people ARE browsing internet forums/web pages to make judgements about folks with some employers stating that they did google prospective employees and look at their myspace pages for info about them. Personally, I think that's a violation of free speech or maybe their civil rights, I don't know which that would qualify under since I know absolutely nothing about the law.
As for damange to my rep, all I can really say about that I've been told a few times that I needed to be aware of negative ramifications of for example being directly involved with a website where issues such as health disparities in healthcare based on race and racism at undergrad institutions were being discussed. But I'm a strong believer that NO MAN can take an opportunity away from you ordained by God himself. So I say what I have to say, apologize when warrented, and let the chips fall where they may.
I happen to believe that the o.p. has the right to use or discard any of the advice he received, and it sounds like he got impatient with the direction of the thread, decided not to waste any more of his time here, and let the world know in a pretty no-nonsense manner. I respect that, though I would not have phrased things the same way. Each to his own.
Did he get impatient or did he grow frustrated because no one answered his question? I gathered that he was adamant about retaking the MCAT, so why not provide a supportive post about how he could do that? Granted, I happened to agree that working on the GPA was the more effective thing to do, but why not offer an alternative?
Maybe at the end of the day, I'm guess I'm just more Rambo than Mr. Rogers.
While I don’t necessarily regret expressing my opinion I do regret the manner in which it was expressed. My intention was not to offend. I should have chosen my words more carefully.
The intent of my post was to find out how others chose which schools they applied to: whether they had any process or decision making criteria. Unfortunately, I felt the conversation immediately went in a direction that I did not intend. It seemed like I was in a committee meeting that wasn’t following the agenda. I tried to guide the conversation back to my original question but the posts seemed to invariably return to my GPA and MCAT scores (neither of which I am sensitive about.)
The conversation then turned to military medicine. This was the source of my ‘patronizing’ comment. A few comments posted by others seemed to assume I had no knowledge of what the military was like or what I would be getting into if I chose that route. I was overly sensitive about these comments but it does annoy me when someone attempts to set me strait on what the military is like. I did spend six years active duty so I feel somewhat knowledgeable about life in the military.
Nevertheless, I am sorry if I appeared selfish or ‘snarky’ (that is a new word for me). I didn’t intend to imply that “your advice sucks.†I just felt that some people chose to concentrate on issues that were not germane to my question. I also felt that some of the comments regarding the military were patronizing. I didn’t express myself clearly however, and for that I am sorry.
The intent of my post was to find out how others chose which schools they applied to: whether they had any process or decision making criteria. Unfortunately, I felt the conversation immediately went in a direction that I did not intend.
Actually that does happen a bit, i.e. the hijacking of a thread. Before you know it one comment changes the whole subject, it would just be better to start a new thread on that specific subject.
Now in response to your question: Even though I have a few years before actually starting, I decided to look through the Princeton Review which gave some basic information about the different allopathic medical schools. I pretty much started with the locations that wouldn't mind living in (which for me is primarily the Northeast and Washington DC), then I looked at each school to see which had a little higher average age since I am a nontrad.
I was able to see the averages of the MCAT scores of entering students, GPA, etc. It also gave the website so that I can go directly to the schools and I found about 12-15 that I am highly enthused with.
Sometimes threads just take a life of their own…regardless of what the original topic was. Regarding the military advice or not…well…some of us also have the military experience to back it up AND we are also in medical school so we are not just talking out of our anal sphincter.
Medical school application…I went by FIRST regions/states where I wanted to apply. Then I narrowed it down to cities, then schools. I figured if I could live there…all would be well.
I was overly sensitive about these comments but it does annoy me when someone attempts to set me strait on what the military is like. I did spend six years active duty so I feel somewhat knowledgeable about life in the military.
dtrainer,
The thing is "life in the military" as an enlisted person and as an officer are not the same thing. Then throw in life as a military physician and things change even more. Not sure when you got out but the military has changed. Not the overall military but specifics. Such as the AF now requires GMO tours if you don't get the residency you wanted.
I'm not being patronizing to you. I was in the Navy for 10 years active and still work at my last duty station 7 years after getting out. I have a lot of involvement with the military and I don't presume to know what the military will be like. For one thing I want EM. Now one's first impression is that there would be no better place than the military for EM experience. However besides Iraq there isn't much EM in the military. Including Iraq.....well how many of those types of injuries will an EM doc ever see as a civilian.
There is the reality that many specialties in the military are not exposed to enough patients with enough complications. I wished the specialists I know would come forward and comment on this but that just isn't going to happen.
I took exception to the recruiting post earlier. The rest of the post was great but then it cheapened the information given when at the end it was basically a recruitment post. You didn't take offense and that's fine. I just get irate with recruiters. There aren't any who can tell you conclusively what life in the military will be like as a physician much less in the specialty you are looking at. Some of these recruiters are enlisted, so they are even more far removed with what being a military physician much less an officer is all about.
dtrainer I'd love to exchange military stories with you and others on here about our time in service. However that does not translate into what our time in uniform will be like as military physicians. There is no one on this forum, that I'm aware of, who has recently done time in uniform as a physician. There is no one who can comment on the current OPTEMPO or changes to the this that or other.
There was a bill in front of Congress allowing an extra $100k/year for certain medical specialties. I was called by a medical recruiter who was boasting and bragging under the impression I was a 20 something undergrad. I had to break it to him that while the bill was passed the military did not have, nor has, nor possibly will have the money to follow through with this bill. So it's a half truth.
dtrainer I would hope that you not leave because of military posts on this site. Just do like I do and take them with a grain of salt. For many here it's just their opinion about the military but without even a day in uniform. Those who have worn the uniform know different....we also know that we shouldn't get all worked up about comments those who haven't worn the uniform make. I would say that 99% of the military comments on this forum mean well.
The thing is "life in the military" as an enlisted person and as an officer are not the same thing. Then throw in life as a military physician and things change even more. Not sure when you got out but the military has changed. Not the overall military but specifics. Such as the AF now requires GMO tours if you don't get the residency you wanted.
Let me echo pathdr’s comment: great post, Crooz. Thanks for your insights. As the mom of a kid in the Navy (who naturally won’t go anywhere near the flight surgeon, but instead calls me for advice so he doesn’t run the risk of getting grounded) I really appreciate it.
And not to make light of the discussion, but I simply HAVE to point out that tonight’s new Bachelor on ABC is Navy Lt. Dr. Andy something-or-another, if you want to see a somewhat idealized version of what life in the medical corps is like!!!
And not to make light of the discussion, but I simply HAVE to point out that tonight's new Bachelor on ABC is Navy Lt. Dr. Andy something-or-another, if you want to see a somewhat idealized version of what life in the medical corps is like!!!
I saw that dudes pic and just said daaaammmmnnn! He's VERY attractive and smart too! Seems too good to be true!
I have to admit though that I've always wanted to be a Naval officer myself and although I was turned down previously due to asthma, they now seem willing to overlook my age AND the asthma. DH was a naval officer so it's not like we wouldn't know what the future could be and knowing that our kids will be adults when I'd be required to serve my time changes things including my possible choice of specialty from 100% Path/Breast Cancer research to possibly Oncology/Breast Cancer Research. I guess the only problem I have is the possibility of not being able to do the residency I want. Still I plan to rotate at one of the military facilities just in case!
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I just thought I'd keep the good conversation going!
Tag me one of those “newbies” I come here quite often, rarely post…mostly read. Just put down my boys for the night, after a couple of “mom can I have a(nother) drink of water?” and the neverending referee position “why does he get the top bunk?”…“He’s making noises again mom” “He’s doing it on purpose…I can’t fall asleep” and then…
I find this topic…Haaahaaahaaahaaa okay will everybody just go to bed already. Just kidding.
Pathdr2b said,
“But I think what often happens on the net on all sites is that statments typed on a computer screen are perceived to be more “harsh” than they would be in F2F conversations. In person, you can assume a persons intent through their body language/facial expressions which obviously can’t be considered via internet communication. What I take issue with is that a statement can be “intrepreted” as hostile then used to do harm to another person’s future.”
And pathdr2b is wise indeed. So don’t worry about this “newbie”…part of becomming a profecient clinician involves developing the ability to: 1. gather all the data 2. test it for validity 3. Assess the situation 4. RESPOND accordingly (for or against) These things come with time. And I find that most importantly (one can hope), with age comes wisdom and a greater ability to reflect and respond, not react.
So in closing, I’m not scared away, actually I’m brewing a pot of coffe to prepare for my pre-reqs , anyone like a cup…
After first posting this topic last year I was a bit hesitant to keep posting on this site. I think I got a little frightened. Nevertheless, I thought I would provide an update and some general thoughts on the whole process.
First, I have learned that medical schools are very forgiving of past mistakes.
Second, the MCAT is crucial. I took it once and did fairly well. I think that opened doors for me that wouldn’t have been opened otherwise.
Third, I believe being a nontraditional student makes the interviews much easier. the interviewers are trying to find out certain things about you and it is much easier to do so when they have a wealth of material (e.g., a longer life story) than when they are dealing with a 21 year old.
Last, apply early. I can’t stress that enough. The earlier you apply the more likely you are to be accepted. Plus it makes things much less stressful. I had my first three interviews knocked out by the end of September and acceptances by November. I can’t tell you how much stress that alleviates.
So to sum up- don’t get discouraged about your past if you are doing well now, rock the MCAT, use your nontraditional status to your advantage, and apply early.
