Hey guys,
I am on a post-bac journey myself. I graduated in December with a degree in the science field and am working full time, and am currently taking general chemistry 1. I’m holding down a solid grade thus far, and am retaking the course. I’m struggling with balancing work with and handling this course and still having time to spend with my spouse. What tips do you guys have? I guess i’m discouraged. My GPA sucks and I have a very long way to go (sGPA is probably under 3.0 or so) with courses and even more if I want to retake anything else. I’m seriously questioning if this is what I want to do- devote my time to - endless studying and time away from my spouse. I guess I’m feeling burned out honestly and I’m surprised I am. I always was/am the type of person to plan ahead and forecast my next move. But I’m faced with the enormous question of - do I just want to stay where I’m at, in a normal middle class medically related science job where I can work and have free time to do whatever I wanted? Or do I continue my very DIY post-bacc and sacrifice time, energy, money, and time with my spouse. I’m seriously at a loss. My spouse is beyond supportive or whatever I want to do, but I’ve changed my mind on pursuing medical school many times for several different reasons (I’m not a social person, time commitment, fear of failure, not sure if I truly want to be a doctor). I’m feeling I’m a a major crossroad. I’m only in my mid-20s, but I feel burned out, but sometimes I feel I can handle it. How do you all deal with this? I just don’t know what to do because I always thought what would decide my fate for or against medical school would be grade-related, and it still COULD be (I’ll most likely be a low-stat applicant) but rather, now, I’m faced with wondering if it’s truly worth it to me, and I don’t know how to determine if it is or isnt, and not sure I can juggle 40+ hours of work and pre-reqs without feeling totally crunched for time- and I haven’t even begun my REAL post-bacc plan of taking 2 science courses at once while working full time.
Kyle, this journey is full of many ups and downs. You will have self doubt and paralysis by analysis more than ever before. It is possible to be successful working full time and taking a full time pre-med course load. I did it and finished my post-bacc with a 3.8…but it sucked. You will have to sacrifice. Time with the spouse, time with friends, time with good beer, time with sleep, but you can do it…if you really really want it. Take a strong look at why you want to become a physician. You MUST absolutely love it, because the process will NOT love you back. If you truly love it, nothing will be sweeter then when you match and have met your goal. It is hard to see the forest through the trees, so take a step back this weekend and evaluate why you want to be a physician, then focus on that when times are tough and you are truly burning the candle at both ends. Wish you the very best. Happy to answer specifics if you like.
I hit a wall studying for the MCAT while working full time, and it caused me to realize three things:
- the medical journey isn’t what I thought it was whilst in the midst of the protected undergrad bubble.
- the medical establishment - especially the hospital system - I found a horrendous place to work.
- perhaps the struggle and stress of trying to force it all was an indication that I needed to rethink whether or not I truly wanted medicine as I had previously thought.
I don’t mean to sound negative or to discourage you, but I will give my perspective knowing that this community will rally around you with encouragement to push on if that is truly what you want to do.
Have you thought of other health professions? Before you immediately discount this option, know that I also did and regret doing so. I graduated in the top 10% of my undergraduate class with plenty of encouragement, stellar LORs from plenty of docs, a history as a combat medic, etc etc. I was on my way to studying for the MCAT when I realized that I was about to get myself into something I didn’t want to commit to, only it all came too late after I earned a nearly-useless bio degree with the accompanying debt. Now I’ve spent the last couple of years trying to find a path on which I fit better…something I should have spent undergrad accomplishing.
If the MD path is truly for you, then by all means put your heart into it. However, if you have doubts in any way then I would take a breath and give those thoughts some careful critical thought. I ignored my doubts and now I’m another few years behind finding my life’s profession.
Best of luck to you.
@Jfowler85 wrote:
I hit a wall studying for the MCAT while working full time, and it caused me to realize three things:
- the medical journey isn’t what I thought it was whilst in the midst of the protected undergrad bubble.
- the medical establishment - especially the hospital system - I found a horrendous place to work.
- perhaps the struggle and stress of trying to force it all was an indication that I needed to rethink whether or not I truly wanted medicine as I had previously thought.
I don’t mean to sound negative or to discourage you, but I will give my perspective knowing that this community will rally around you with encouragement to push on if that is truly what you want to do.
Have you thought of other health professions? Before you immediately discount this option, know that I also did and regret doing so. I graduated in the top 10% of my undergraduate class with plenty of encouragement, stellar LORs from plenty of docs, a history as a combat medic, etc etc. I was on my way to studying for the MCAT when I realized that I was about to get myself into something I didn’t want to commit to, only it all came too late after I earned a nearly-useless bio degree with the accompanying debt. Now I’ve spent the last couple of years trying to find a path on which I fit better…something I should have spent undergrad accomplishing.
If the MD path is truly for you, then by all means put your heart into it. However, if you have doubts in any way then I would take a breath and give those thoughts some careful critical thought. I ignored my doubts and now I’m another few years behind finding my life’s profession.
Best of luck to you.
Thanks for the post. I’ve considered so many different health professions over the years - nurse, DO, PA, podiatrist, pharmacist, AA, PathA, etc, and I’m actually a medical laboratory technologist myself. I’m trying to take this slow, but this is something I’ve struggled with a lot, and perhaps this is the strongest push against it - my grades arent that great, I’m in a normal middle class science/health-related job that often plays to my strengths in terms of work and personality. But at the same time, I love learning, and like science. I’m enjoying taking courses still even after a very long road to get my BS degree. I’ve shadowed quite a bit, but am still extremely unsure. I have seen myself in the shoes of all of the health professions listed above, and probably more I can’t think of right now, but something always holds me back - my low GPA, the time commitment, the huge risk factor involved in ANY professional school which would require myself and my spouse to quit our jobs and live on loans when I already have a sizeable loan burden. Fear of failure. I’ve seen it posted so many times how you should just do it - do it because you won’t know until you try and you don’t want to ask yourself ‘what if’ years later. This is fine advice, but it takes a special person to be able to shut EVERYTHING else going on in their lives out, master very difficult material, and still have a life outside of studying for or being in medical school. There’s so much more to life than education and what you do for a living, and this is coming from someone who is the first to graduate in their family’s history. Education and learning means a great deal to me…but to what end?
@Kyle wrote:
@Jfowler85 wrote:I hit a wall studying for the MCAT while working full time, and it caused me to realize three things:
- the medical journey isn’t what I thought it was whilst in the midst of the protected undergrad bubble.
- the medical establishment - especially the hospital system - I found a horrendous place to work.
- perhaps the struggle and stress of trying to force it all was an indication that I needed to rethink whether or not I truly wanted medicine as I had previously thought.
I don’t mean to sound negative or to discourage you, but I will give my perspective knowing that this community will rally around you with encouragement to push on if that is truly what you want to do.
Have you thought of other health professions? Before you immediately discount this option, know that I also did and regret doing so. I graduated in the top 10% of my undergraduate class with plenty of encouragement, stellar LORs from plenty of docs, a history as a combat medic, etc etc. I was on my way to studying for the MCAT when I realized that I was about to get myself into something I didn’t want to commit to, only it all came too late after I earned a nearly-useless bio degree with the accompanying debt. Now I’ve spent the last couple of years trying to find a path on which I fit better…something I should have spent undergrad accomplishing.
If the MD path is truly for you, then by all means put your heart into it. However, if you have doubts in any way then I would take a breath and give those thoughts some careful critical thought. I ignored my doubts and now I’m another few years behind finding my life’s profession.
Best of luck to you.
Thanks for the post. I’ve considered so many different health professions over the years - nurse, DO, PA, podiatrist, pharmacist, AA, PathA, etc, and I’m actually a medical laboratory technologist myself. I’m trying to take this slow, but this is something I’ve struggled with a lot, and perhaps this is the strongest push against it - my grades arent that great, I’m in a normal middle class science/health-related job that often plays to my strengths in terms of work and personality. But at the same time, I love learning, and like science. I’m enjoying taking courses still even after a very long road to get my BS degree. I’ve shadowed quite a bit, but am still extremely unsure. I have seen myself in the shoes of all of the health professions listed above, and probably more I can’t think of right now, but something always holds me back - my low GPA, the time commitment, the huge risk factor involved in ANY professional school which would require myself and my spouse to quit our jobs and live on loans when I already have a sizeable loan burden. Fear of failure. I’ve seen it posted so many times how you should just do it - do it because you won’t know until you try and you don’t want to ask yourself ‘what if’ years later. This is fine advice, but it takes a special person to be able to shut EVERYTHING else going on in their lives out, master very difficult material, and still have a life outside of studying for or being in medical school. There’s so much more to life than education and what you do for a living, and this is coming from someone who is the first to graduate in their family’s history. Education and learning means a great deal to me…but to what end
Exactly. Don’t let that thought slip into the ether without giving it due consideration, lest you pass the point of no return in the premed race and wind up with a bunch of debt and stress and nowhere to go. I believe that, although it is possible that you could accomplish whatever you set your mind to, there comes a point when you have to ask yourself how feasible it is to continue on, especially when others are affected. At some point, you have to call it.
Forgive my questions, I don’t mean to patronize you: have you considered dental school? What about optometry? Those are two health professions which can rx medication, carry patient panels all their own, work independently of big hospital systems, bring in good salaries, and don’t require the MCAT. You did mention podiatry…another alternative to those medically minded. What about hospital administration? I’m an administrative officer; I work closely with docs and nurses, interact directly with patients every day, and stand in as acting bed manager and hospital director after regular business hours.
A big mistake I made in the beginning was assuming the prestige of the MD before I had even finished my undergrad degree, and because of this I did not allow myself to explore other interests and other options available to me. I had previously convinced myself that, although I was a good candidate for PA school, that wasn’t good enough for me. Same thing with dental, optometry, audiology and podiatry. Luckily I was able to work my way up into hospital admin so I can feed my family and maintain work experience…but if I want to explore other options now I have to start over from scratch and network for shadowing hours, etc.
Edit: As an afterthought, how do you feel about psychology (PhD)? Social work? Our addiction treatment SWs here have their own patient panels and do extensive clinic appointments 1-1. What about licensed counselor? If science education interests you, have you thought about research? Teaching?
Edit 2: Again, I don’t mean to be a contrarian or to be discouraging, I just thought to add my .02 given that this entire community is so supportive of their fellow forum members.
@Jfowler85 wrote:
@Kyle wrote:@Jfowler85 wrote:I hit a wall studying for the MCAT while working full time, and it caused me to realize three things:
- the medical journey isn’t what I thought it was whilst in the midst of the protected undergrad bubble.
- the medical establishment - especially the hospital system - I found a horrendous place to work.
- perhaps the struggle and stress of trying to force it all was an indication that I needed to rethink whether or not I truly wanted medicine as I had previously thought.
I don’t mean to sound negative or to discourage you, but I will give my perspective knowing that this community will rally around you with encouragement to push on if that is truly what you want to do.
Have you thought of other health professions? Before you immediately discount this option, know that I also did and regret doing so. I graduated in the top 10% of my undergraduate class with plenty of encouragement, stellar LORs from plenty of docs, a history as a combat medic, etc etc. I was on my way to studying for the MCAT when I realized that I was about to get myself into something I didn’t want to commit to, only it all came too late after I earned a nearly-useless bio degree with the accompanying debt. Now I’ve spent the last couple of years trying to find a path on which I fit better…something I should have spent undergrad accomplishing.
If the MD path is truly for you, then by all means put your heart into it. However, if you have doubts in any way then I would take a breath and give those thoughts some careful critical thought. I ignored my doubts and now I’m another few years behind finding my life’s profession.
Best of luck to you.
Thanks for the post. I’ve considered so many different health professions over the years - nurse, DO, PA, podiatrist, pharmacist, AA, PathA, etc, and I’m actually a medical laboratory technologist myself. I’m trying to take this slow, but this is something I’ve struggled with a lot, and perhaps this is the strongest push against it - my grades arent that great, I’m in a normal middle class science/health-related job that often plays to my strengths in terms of work and personality. But at the same time, I love learning, and like science. I’m enjoying taking courses still even after a very long road to get my BS degree. I’ve shadowed quite a bit, but am still extremely unsure. I have seen myself in the shoes of all of the health professions listed above, and probably more I can’t think of right now, but something always holds me back - my low GPA, the time commitment, the huge risk factor involved in ANY professional school which would require myself and my spouse to quit our jobs and live on loans when I already have a sizeable loan burden. Fear of failure. I’ve seen it posted so many times how you should just do it - do it because you won’t know until you try and you don’t want to ask yourself ‘what if’ years later. This is fine advice, but it takes a special person to be able to shut EVERYTHING else going on in their lives out, master very difficult material, and still have a life outside of studying for or being in medical school. There’s so much more to life than education and what you do for a living, and this is coming from someone who is the first to graduate in their family’s history. Education and learning means a great deal to me…but to what end
Exactly. Don’t let that thought slip into the ether without giving it due consideration, lest you pass the point of no return in the premed race and wind up with a bunch of debt and stress and nowhere to go. I believe that, although it is possible that you could accomplish whatever you set your mind to, there comes a point when you have to ask yourself how feasible it is to continue on, especially when others are affected. At some point, you have to call it.
Forgive my questions, I don’t mean to patronize you: have you considered dental school? What about optometry? Those are two health professions which can rx medication, carry patient panels all their own, work independently of big hospital systems, bring in good salaries, and don’t require the MCAT. You did mention podiatry…another alternative to those medically minded. What about hospital administration? I’m an administrative officer; I work closely with docs and nurses, interact directly with patients every day, and stand in as acting bed manager and hospital director after regular business hours.
A big mistake I made in the beginning was assuming the prestige of the MD before I had even finished my undergrad degree, and because of this I did not allow myself to explore other interests and other options available to me. I had previously convinced myself that, although I was a good candidate for PA school, that wasn’t good enough for me. Same thing with dental, optometry, audiology and podiatry. Luckily I was able to work my way up into hospital admin so I can feed my family and maintain work experience…but if I want to explore other options now I have to start over from scratch and network for shadowing hours, etc.
Edit: As an afterthought, how do you feel about psychology (PhD)? Social work? Our addiction treatment SWs here have their own patient panels and do extensive clinic appointments 1-1. What about licensed counselor? If science education interests you, have you thought about research? Teaching?
Edit 2: Again, I don’t mean to be a contrarian or to be discouraging, I just thought to add my .02 given that this entire community is so supportive of their fellow forum members.
No problem, your posts seem to be very logical and come from a good place. Yes, I have considered other health care paths (dental, optometry, others I have mentioned thus far) and am unsure on that at this point. I feel like I could be happy with a career as a PA, but alas, I don’t have any health care experience, save for the programs that would consider being a medical technologist as health care experience in lieu of patient care hours - it’s fairly rare but there are programs out there that will take that, but more importantly my GPAs are on the low end. So I suppose my plan for now is just to continue taking the pre-req science courses that cover almost any and every professional science degree (the chemistry courses, physics, some more biology etc). I feel like I’m at a place in my life where I don’t have to make that call right now - I’m working in a health profession, and feel (most days) that I want to continue with taking courses and kicking the can down the road in terms of a big decision like medical/PA/pharmacy school. I still fundamentally don’t know if I would enjoy doing what a doctor/provider does - despite my hours of shadowing, reading, and soul-searching. This will continue too.
Hi Kyle-
Well, I’m a tenured English professor at a small, liberal-arts college, and I’m on the career-changer path. As someone who advises a lot of undergrads and stays in contact with recent graduates, you sound like someone who just doesn’t know what it is that you really want to do in life. From reading what you’ve posted, I’d advise you to stop taking the classes as a fail-safe measure. Work. Enjoy time with your spouse. Pay off as much of your debt as fast as you can, etc. Live your life. You’re still very young. Medical schools will still be around in 5 years, 10 years, and beyond. If you don’t know now, don’t waste your time.
When you do know (if you ever get that firm sense of conviction: “Yes, this is what I’m called to do. This is what I MUST do.”), then you can hit the books again. You’ll have a sense of motivation that you don’t seem to have right now, and that will benefit your performance in the classroom, which will benefit your C.V., and, in turn, your application.
I hope my post doesn’t sound discouraging. It just simply looks like you’re not ready and you really don’t know what you want to do with your life. That’s okay. Heck, I thought I wanted to be a professor. I did 8 years of grad. school, worked my tail off, landed a tenure-track gig, worked my tail off even more, got tenured, and then on my first sabbatical lamented that I wasn’t an M.D. I don’t regret my journey in the least, because it’s the journey that brought me to where I am.
So I’d encourage you to focus on what you do know for now.In the end, your path to med school (if that’s where you end up going in the future) might look incredibly different from others. That’s okay! Good luck!
I hear you Kyle. I was absolutely 100% sure I was wanted to be a physician when I left the military, and had all of the encouragement and support in the world. However, actually working in a hospital and seeing medicine practiced in real time has changed the way I see it and I’m so sure any more that I want to sacrifice so much of my family’s life on the medical alter for this kind of environment and profession. I have a gut feeling that if pre-meds actually spent time working amongst health care providers in a hospital setting, many would change paths quick, fast, and in hurry.
So, I don’t think there is anything wrong with feeling pulled in one direction by your heart and another direction by your brain…that means you’re thinking critically which is a good thing! There are already way too many disillusioned docs out there right now, the kind who got into medicine having no clue how it actually works in the real world; I deal with such residents every day as an administrator and it boggle my mind how so many of them just don’t understand that they are in a medical chain of command with administration in the top seat. Really throws some of them off because society tells us that doctors are prestigious, the pinnacle of education and career, the top dogs in their field…but in most settings they are just another cog in the hospital system wheel. I mean no disrespect to docs herein - my job is such that, on off tours, I represent the office of the hospital director and the chief of medical staff, and alas I am also just another cog in this medical machine. I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s good you are thinking your way through this instead of letting your heart take the lead.
I’ve only a couple of options left to explore within health care before I exit out completely and do something like go back into the military as an officer or pursue biology further…I’m pulled in a few directions as well - but I have learned from my experiences as an undergrad (i.e., rolling through a biology degree for the purpose of medical school admission without considering the ramifications of not getting into medical school and being stuck with a useless biology bachelor’s degree), that it is wise to take time and let the path before me develop on its own as I explore it, as opposed to forcing it.
I feel that I understand the spot you are in, and I feel that I am in a similar spot. Hang in there, it’s okay to temporarily forget about the whole thing just to have it off of your chest, or to lament, just keep putting one foot in front of the other and you will find where it is you need to go.
My first acute care job was as an EKG tech. I was not even a cog on that wheel. Back in 2010 I quit division 1 golf and changed my major. I was at the bottom of the food chain and it sucked. I was excited for the experience, dreaded the hierarchy. I took breaks in the bathroom to hide from consistent crunching of the gears. Ones higher up dumped their load onto the uneducated, inexperienced employee I once was. After I graduated I worked my way up to a low middle cog position right beneath a nurse and right above a x-Ray tech. I had a degree in neuroscience. The nurses acted like they were recent Harvard grads and I was fresh out of ITT tech. I had been working in the hospital for 5 years… still nurses had the nerve to make smart remarks and let it be known they were educated. Bitching about how I pressed the off button on the glucose drip… “Do you even know what’s in here”? At this point I made it a rule to put such actors in their place by one upping their nursing pharmacology with some pharmokinetics. I figured it would help my memorization and prove to them I was more qualified than my job title suggested. I was still working full time when I finished my last pre req. I had taken online orgo 2 at une and I was losing motivation. It had been three years since I graduated college. Every year saying I was going to finish my courses…no questions asked! Instead I sat listening to some patient care tech bitching about how the janitor didn’t get the linens.
I still hadn’t taken the mcat and realized how was I going to do this. I mean I would literally go to work, put 30 wires on a dead persons head… family and friends watching my every move, knowing their loved one had no shot. That’s a lot of baggage and to think that I had to go home and study till 2 am! I graduated at 23. When I decided to take the Princeton review online course I just turned 26. I kept working full time as an EEG end of life specialist. I befriended the palliative care nurse practitioner. It was that bad. I was living with my parents in order to pay off my undergrad debt. In a two bedroom house with no privacy I started the course with enthusiasm.
I hit a wall
I didn’t watch the online lectures, didn’t do any homework assigned! I just watched khan academy psych social videos. I had payed $2,000 for this course and I just looked at the 4 foot tall stack of books.
One day at work about a month into the course I was performing an EEG and the chaplain came in. She asked me if I had seen the family. I said no. In a split second the nurse assigned to that room came storming in. Picture this: I was wearing an isolation gown an n95 mask and I was behind the icu bed. With IV poles on both sides, a ventilator, and a dialysis machine next to it. I was trapped behind the bed putting wires on a dead person. The nurse yelled “who do you think you are”! I said I’m an EEG tech with a degree in neuroscience and I’m about to apply to medical school. I honestly thought she was joking. The nurse shouted “don’t you ever tell a visitor that you haven’t seen the family members”! I thought what the #%^* is wrong with this place, why was everyone so mad. I managed to get from behind the bed and ripped off my gown, and closed the door. The chaplain, myself, and the nurse. I told her “I am not sure what you are talking about, but you make no sense”. “I am the boss and the chaplain wanted to find the family, you should have notified me immediately”!! I yelled back “what’s your point, you were sitting right outside the room, did you not see her come in, you heard her ask me if I had seen the family”! I was about to flip out. Raising her voice “You have only been in here for 10 minutes how can you say you haven’t seen them, the chaplain needs to talk to the family about the brain death”. I looked at her dumbfounded “do you know what I am doing”? She said no. I was in the process of diagnosing that brain death she didn’t even know what an EEG was. I’m not sure why she was so angry but it was totally inappropriate even if their was no family in the room. I told her “I am doing the brain death study”. She walked out and got the charge nurse and proceeded to make up this magical story about how I did this and that. Knowing I could be in trouble, I went back to work behind the bed. When I finished I saw a PA yelling at the nurse about another one of her patients. This is when I got a sledge hammer and decided to break down that wall that stood Between failing the mcat and med school. I worked full time during my mcat prep and kept dealing with all the bull. I realized that my experience in healthcare and my education was to valuable to put to waste. I could have told that PA to stop yelling and the nurse would have been happy and all of the others on the lower cog would be happy. I ended up doing ok on the mcat and I’m starting at bcomnm this year. My point is to illustrate that indeed the hospital is a challenging place to work, but more importantly how the unrelenting work reached a point where I could no longer procrastinate or feel sorry for myself. My quickest way out was taking the dang MCAT. I worked my butt off went through hell and back. My desire to become a physician was reignited because I wanted to smash that cogwheel to pieces.
You hit a wall big freaking deal. Maybe you need to get a job in the emergency department or in a psych unit. You need motivation, working as a lab tech probably isn’t that motivating. It’s not about cutting it off or calling it quits or blah blah. It’s normal to feel like this especially when it means so much to you. It might take some time and you might not have fun with your spouse. Becoming a physician requires being subjected to ups and downs. My advice would be to find some inspiration, go shadow an ED doc on Friday nights… Whatever you need to keep the train rolling.
Those of you saying that it may be time to reflect, don’t listen to them if you really care. Sure people decide to change career choices but only those who make excuses chose to change career aspirations. Don’t listen to the health admin baloni. Sure they run the show at their corporation. Residency is 3 years and most likely you will put up with their agenda for 20 more. I don’t care what they make me do whatever…when I’m taking home $250,000k I’ll even take them for a steak dinner every night. When I’m 60-65 I’ll have a nice little practice maybe a couple maybe 10 standalone emergency rooms. I’ll offer all of my business admin employees an excellent fidelity investments 401k package. Ill be spending my retirement sitting on the beach recounting all the ups and downs of my successful career