MD/PhD: possible plan at age 40+?

I am (tentatively) embarking on a premed journey at age 40. I am planning to start my postbacc courses this fall at my local 4-yr state college (a private school is not financially possible for me). I worry about time: if I start med school at 43, with a 7-year program and then 4-year residency, I won’t be really back into the working world until I’m 54! I am also worried about the financial implications - I’m not looking at medicine for the paycheck, but I also don’t want to find myself elderly and destitute.


I already have a PhD in a social science discipline and an MPH, so I’ve already spent a ridiculous amount of time in school. I have been circling medicine for a long time now, working in public health and related fields, and I feel like the way forward is now into medicine itself. I do like doing research, and I do not want to lose that element. When I was younger, I couldn’t have imagined myself as a clinician, but now (mainly because of the life experience!), I also think I have something to contribute to clinical care.


Is this even worth considering? Do you think I have a chance at admission to an MD/PhD program at my age? Any advice will be appreciated!

Why MD/PhD? It is always possible and I believe some here are considering this route.


Unless there is a very good reason for the PhD part, I would personally advise against. I believe that you can do everything a PhD does with the MD. Many will disagree, but my opinion is that the PhD is not needed, it doesn’t add much and you can have all the opportunities you want with the MD degree (I have a PhD in Biochem and am a former scientist, so I speak of my own personal experience).


At my school there is also the option of MD with Distinction in Research which allows one to get into research and see how to move into a more academic career where research is a big part of your work.


As a PhD though you do get a training that perhaps you won’t get in the MD curriculum, that is true, but as an MD student, you can expose yourself if decide to do so and gain training as you go along, or even take a year after your MD to do research, or even publish your work.


In other words, a PhD is not needed if you want to do research. It might prove a nice thing to have, but I do not believe it is a Must have, and in my opinion that doesn’t justify the extra time commitment (even if the ride is free). I would make sure that I want to go MD/PhD for a very good reason…


This is my opinion, and I already hear others that will disagree. Ultimately, it is up to you, and again, make sure the reason you have is very strong, to the extent that even one guy, with a PhD and who has done research for years in a medical center, can’t dissuade you from doing it.

Thank you for your response - this is helpful. I think I need to get a better sense of what sorts of research opportunities are available as part of MD programs at different schools. Perhaps the Research Distinction path would be a wiser time investment.

This will vary by school as does everything else, but there are tons of research opportunities for MD students. In fact, some schools have made a research project a graduation requirement. Students I talked to mostly did their research stuff during summers when school was not in session (ie between M1-2) but there were stories of some people who kept their projects going throughout all 4 years. Time management at its finest.


You may be part of a PhD’s team, or you may be able to apply for your own grant from the school or other outside agencies. I don’t know how research works after graduation, but I assume it’d be the same as anywhere else.


Are you more interested in the clinical aspect of being a doc or want to concentrate on research with patient care as more of a “side” job? You could probably do some cool research of the social aspects of medicine with your PhD now. Is a science based PhD necessary for you to do what you’re interested in?

Hi, and welcome to OPM. I initially wanted to do an MD/PhD (and applied that way last cycle), so I have some thoughts and experience around this subject.


First, a little about my background as it relates to MD/PhD. I had a bachelor’s degree in journalism, did a 2-year post-bac program (plus several upper-level science courses), had fantastic grades, and got a very good MCAT score. I applied to 25 MD/PhD programs across the country. I got 2 MD/PhD interviews and 4 MD interviews. Out of that, I got 3 MD acceptances. From this whole experience, I learned some things:


MD/PhD programs are incredibly competitive (to put it lightly). They are looking for people who excel in the basic sciences and in basic science research. So lacking a four-year science degree (biology, biochemistry, chemistry, etc.) is a HUGE drawback. A post-bac is simply not enough exposure to the sciences. You are expected to know much more than you can get in that sort of program (I know, because that was me). Also, you are expected to have done a significant amount of independent basic science research, preferably with publications (first author if possible). It’s great that you have done social science research, but that is very different and so again, you’re way behind the curve here. (I had done a lot of research, but no publications, and few independent projects.) Also, if I remember correctly, some MD/PhD programs will not even consider your application if you already have a PhD already in another discipline.


I am not saying this to discourage you – this is just the reality. The people who get into MD/PhD programs, as one of the ADCOMS at Cornell told me, “have been doing research since they were in preschool.” That’s a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. As others have said here on this thread, there are plenty of opportunities for doing research with an MD, and that is my plan. Cornell, where I am going next year, has a research track, as do many medical schools.


Some things to consider … best wishes to you!



  • osny Said:
I am (tentatively) embarking on a premed journey at age 40. I am planning to start my postbacc courses this fall at my local 4-yr state college (a private school is not financially possible for me). I worry about time: if I start med school at 43, with a 7-year program and then 4-year residency, I won't be really back into the working world until I'm 54! I am also worried about the financial implications - I'm not looking at medicine for the paycheck, but I also don't want to find myself elderly and destitute.



Hello, and welcome to the crazy as hell club!!!!

I just want to offer a different perspective when it comes to money.

Almost all MD/PhD students receive a stipend so you'll actually be "earning" money throughout your program. Obviously, you're paid as a Resident and Fellow, so in actuality you won't be "missing" income during your training and beyond!!

I didn't grow up in poverty but I lived close enough to it to appreciate the fact that even as an MD/PhD student, I'll make more money than many people live on yearly for most of their lives. Combined with the happiness I'll FINALLY have doing what I enjoy, and I can't think if a better way to enjoy my late 40's/early 50's!!!

I know I am late to this thread, but I wanted to put in my perspective. If you want to get a PhD in biomedical area, then getting the MD may make the PhD irrelevant from a research perspective. However, if you want to get a PhD in a non-science or social science field, then it may be worth it as there is not much overlap between the MD and a social science PhD. Indeed, one of the reasons for embarking on such a dual degree IS to bridge that gap between the two disciplines, and generate new findings and new scholarship as a result.

I was looking at PhD/MD partly because I don’t want to give up doing research but I need more training to advance, I can’t NOT want an MD, and hey, stipend. I actually have been involved in research in one way or another since I was 16 (I’m 37) and do have publications. My worry is that I lack the GPA (2.96 original undergrad, 3.2 original grad, 4.0 community college so far) and some of the critical coursework for the MCAT. I’m a long way out from undergrad so I don’t know how much those counselors can help, plus I’m in a different state. I have been taking and acing classes at the CC but the advisors don’t have many people in my position. I don’t know if I will need to complete a second major at the local university with the PhD/MD program or just focus on taking the courses that will help me do well on the GRE and MCAT.


Have you consulted any books or consultants you have found helpful?

Hi all,



I wrote this initial post about a year ago - sorry for disappearing!



This past year has been extremely busy. I took my first set of premed courses (introductory biology and labs, general chemistry and labs, genetics), and it has been going well overall. I have discovered that I like chemistry! So, if nothing else, I have gained something from the process already. I was able to work in a biochemistry lab over the summer, which has been valuable in understanding what lab research really feels like.



I have also been teaching as an adjunct at the same time. It is very strange to teach undergraduates for half of the week while taking undergraduate courses for the rest (at least they were at different schools). More recently, the teaching has been at the graduate level.



While the whole thing still gives me pause, it seems like I’m doing it. The MD/PhD track still appeals to me. If I’m going to be impractical, I guess I might as well really mean it.

@osny wrote:

While the whole thing still gives me pause, it seems like I’m doing it. The MD/PhD track still appeals to me. If I’m going to be impractical, I guess I might as well really mean it.




Glad to hear you’re hanging in there, I LOVE chemistry and feel that with the right concentration (i.e., Biochemistry), I think it will help a LOT with your future academic plans!!

A cautionary tale…



Back when I was a biology undergraduate, my embryology professor related that he had embarked on the MD/PhD combined program. Finished his first two years of med school, then diverted for three years to focus exclusively on his PhD in developmental biology. Expecting to return to med school once he had completed that, he suddenly found his funding was cut off, leaving him with a brand-new PhD, but no possibility of finishing the MD. Unless you can afford to self-fund (I, for one, cannot), think very carefully before going this route.