My story is simple…I was more concerned with the social atmosphere when I was taking my pre-req’s, then actually fininshing with decent grades. My father, who is a D.O. told me pre-med is not for me, yet my dream is and has always been, to follow in his footsteps and to help others. So I agree with him and went on to The Culinary Institute of America (which is accredited by the Middle States), and received my Bachelor’s Degree in Professional Studies. I graduated in the top 10% of my class, not only in cooking, but liberal arts classes, such as English and Accounting in 2003. Fast forward to now, I have an excellent job with a great company, but am miserable I have not fulfilled my dream of becoming a D.O. I am 30 years old and I would love more than anything to pursue my dream. I have visited Western University, in Pomona,CA, and I know in my heart I can do this. I took some of the pre-req’s, but, again, didn’t really focus (plus it was almost 10 years ago). At the same time, I began studying for the MCAT, and for the most part, I have done exceptionally well on sample tests. My questions are: for someone who’s been out of college have to repeat the pre-req’s (i.e. chemistry, o-chem, biology, physics), or can my test scores make an exception, considering my work? I have a job in management, where I have to be available anytime, if I need to take these classes, how can I fulfill these classes without missing anything, or worse, being cut? Are there any alternatives, such as online classes? If my test scores are exceptional, can I bypass taking the pre-req’s? I do not need help deciding if this is the correct decision for me, I just need help guiding me toward my dream of becoming a physician. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Your GPA and MCAT score combined are the most important factors in gaining admission. GPA * MCAT clip levels are used to screen applicants, so a low gpa could mean your application is not even considered, though I’m not sure if this differs for osteopathic schools.
What’s your gpa? Improving gpa and preparing for the MCAT are the two reasons applicants pursue postbacc study after initially meeting the prereqs.
I’m not aware of an option that would allow you to skip any of the core prerequisites–you need to have taken them all. Also, most schools do not impose an ‘expiration date’ on prereqs, but do expect to see recent demonstration of academic excellence in a competitive setting. The lower the gpa, the more important this becomes. You should call the schools you’re interested in, particularly if you’re going the DO route–there aren’t that many schools to call.
As for work, I’m not sure you’ll find much sympathy from med schools on that front. Many of us are working full-time, going to school at night, quitting our jobs, having babies spit up on our ochem homework, etc. I would guess schools look at the ability to overcome non-trad obstacles as an indication of an individual’s passion for and desire to enter the medical profession. As for online courses, you will need to check with the schools, but most if not all allopathic schools do not accept online courses, period. There have been posts on this, and admission counselors seem to be aware of what’s online vs. classroom even if it’s not stated on the transcript.
Hi and welcome
First off congrats on doing well in becoming a Chef, I love cooking and its a passion of mine (I have to eat and might as well eat well! LOL)
So I agree with some of above
Whats the Undergrad GPA? this will be all undergrad courses taken, at all Universities not just the degree university.
10 years is too old for some Medical schools I suggest you contact the interested medical schools and find out what can be done, you may need to redo some premed and that is a good thing since the GPA you can have from this could be very good and DO schools are known to consider recent work after years in another career.
You still need to
Volunteer
Shadow
Patient experience
also.
In a Marathon there are no shortcuts
the course is the course to try to shortcut and stray is to loose the race.
A couple of miscellaneous comments . . .
Some schools will overlook old pre-reqs with an exceptional MCAT (I’m thinking high 30s or even higher). However, your post seems to indicate that you have not taken all of the required pre-reqs. It seems highly unlikely to me that any school would overlook both old pre-reqs and not having completed all of them. Ten years is really too old for most schools - especially biology. Biology has changed a lot and you will want to be current.
You don’t mention your GPA, but you do say you “didn’t really focus” when taking the pre-reqs the first time. Even if you knock the MCAT out of the park, I don’t think that’s going to be enough for most med schools. They are going to want to see recent evidence of your ability to do well in difficult science classes. Although your top 10% is impressive, I don’t think that most adcoms will consider that indicative of your ability to do well in the sciences or medical school.
If becoming a DO is truly your dream, you need to do this the right way and not look for shortcuts. Unfortunately, you may need to find another job, if your current job is not going to allow you to do what it takes to be a competitive candidate. This is a choice you will have to make. Online courses are generally not an option - for the most part, it’s very difficult to fulfill the lab component online. Plus, you really want to have a solid foundation in these courses if you make it into medical school. It is assumed that you will have that knowledge base. It is difficult to keep up with the regular coursework in medical school, let alone have time to review things that the courses assume you already know.
I don’t wish to sound harsh, but med schools have tons of applicants. If you want to be competitive, you need to show the adcoms that you are both capable and dedicated to this path. That means finding a way to take recent coursework and do well in it, finding time to shadow and volunteer, and gaining some healthcare experience.
On another note . . . I wish to disagree slightly with the implication that if your original ugrad GPA is less than stellar you have no chance at an allopathic school. Although it certainly doesn’t help, it is far from a death knell for an application. My original ugrad GPA was less than 2.8. I applied at five allopathic schools, and was accepted to all five - two of them make US News’ annual rankings of top medical schools. I had a pretty decent MCAT, but it was far from outstanding (in fact, it was slightly below the average of my entering class). I know of at least a couple of other people with similar or lower GPAs than mine who have multiple acceptances to competitive allopathic schools.
Don’t get me wrong, GPA and MCAT ARE indeed important. If you have a less than stellar original GPA, you have virtually no room for error when you decide to try the med school path. There are some medical schools that use GPA and MCAT as screening cutoffs. My experience has been, though, that many schools will look at and consider the entire application and not just reject solely based on those two numbers.
I am always mystified with docs giving such advice to young people, it begs the question whether they were entirely “squared away” with thier original motivation…
I agree with everyone above.
- You will have to take your pre-reqs over. I am assuming your grades are at least eight years old. That is probably too long ago for many medical schools. I don’t know what your GPA is but even if it was a 4.0, you probably will still have to take the courses over. If not for the schools at least take it so you are fresh with all the material. The stuff you need to know for the MCATs is only a fraction of what you learn while taking the actual courses.
- A stellar MCAT can overshadow many things but I still believe most schools are going to want you take those pre-reqs, at least the basic ones.
- Get some volunteer experience. I know your dad is a doctor and you probably have a better insight than most people just beginning this journey but you need to truly know this is for you. This might be me reading too much into this, it did not seem like you got along too well with your dad so I am guessing you haven’t done too much shadowing or volunteering. If you have not, go and do it and see if this is what you really want.
- I wish you good luck man.
- lapointe Said:
I'm taking a little of this out of context, but let me assure you all that there are applicants out there with gpa's that most can only dream about, with MCAT scores in the 40's, who don't get a single interview to medical school. Your experiences are what will make a break an application. Good "numbers" will only get you in the application-review door. The experiences get you an interview invitation.
Cheers,
Judy
Greetings,
I agree with Judy Colwell entirely, USE your greatest asset your AGE to your advantage, my grades were good, MCAT average, but my LIFE experiences were simply irresistable to those interviewing me and those on the admissions committee.
DO NOT shy away from your life experiences… sure you have to put up good numbers and show them your “stuff” academically, but if I had been 20 with my numbers, I doubt I would have rated an interview! My numbers where OK nothing to crow about, but as a 42 year old father of 6 and former “long haul trucker”, they were irresistable and the “academics” just could not help themselves…
I have plenty of evidence for this, please see my “photo” contribution!
- jcolwell Said:
- lapointe Said:
I'm taking a little of this out of context, but let me assure you all that there are applicants out there with gpa's that most can only dream about, with MCAT scores in the 40's, who don't get a single interview to medical school. Your experiences are what will make a break an application. Good "numbers" will only get you in the application-review door. The experiences get you an interview invitation.
Cheers,
Judy
You are so right I have read the stories
Just do not post this on SDN LOL
Its both High GPA and MCAT you need and
"Hey you are giving bad advice!" "A 2.8 and 24 MCAT gets into a DO school!" "Look at MD applicants!" "Thats good for a DO school and the average" LOL
I just want to walk outside my house here and scream....... I like to give good advice not something that is a crap shoot at best!
Thanks Judy really you are a sane voice out here!
hi there,
just wondering-- what other kinds of experiences do you have on your cv/resume? i understand that experiences count as well as your gpa and mcat, but I wanted to ask about your particular experiences, since you seem to have done well by being accepted to 5 allopathic schools!
thanks!
- Richard B Said:
DO NOT shy away from your life experiences... sure you have to put up good numbers and show them your "stuff" academically, but if I had been 20 with my numbers, I doubt I would have rated an interview! My numbers where OK nothing to crow about, but as a 42 year old father of 6 and former "long haul trucker", they were irresistable and the "academics" just could not help themselves...
I have plenty of evidence for this, please see my "photo" contribution!
I agree that you need to go ahead and be yourself, be proud and show your stuff including your age. But if you think that age is an advantage, you are kidding yourself. I've seen way too many OPMs think that ordinary scores and grades can be overlooked because, after all, they have life experience. That will NOT happen.
What CAN happen is that you package good grades and scores, good LORs, *and* a really interesting life story, so that you stand out. Just be careful that you don't think that you are more attractive simply because you're old and therefore more experienced. It's a fine distinction but an important one.
Mary
- hongkongfong Said:
just wondering-- what other kinds of experiences do you have on your cv/resume? i understand that experiences count as well as your gpa and mcat, but I wanted to ask about your particular experiences, since you seem to have done well by being accepted to 5 allopathic schools!
thanks!
All kinds of interesting experiences.
I taught HS Spanish for ten years, was a volunteer and paid EMT (7 years) and firefighter (2 years), coached volleyball and cheerleading, advised numerous student activities, union officer, directed a musical, was on the friends of the library board, worked for the post office, lived/worked on a farm . . . . lots of other miscellaneous things. As a teacher and while in college, I worked various jobs during breaks so my employment history is rather lengthy. If there's anything in particular you'd like me to expound on, I'd be happy to do so.
Dr Renard,
With all due respect (and I do, please understand, I DO respect your accomplishment), I am going to take issue with the following:
“I’ve seen way too many OPMs think that ordinary scores and grades can be overlooked because, after all, they have life experience. That will NOT happen.” (SEZ WHO?)
My grades were excellent, MCAT (just) OK but the other stuff was absolutley UNIQUE, I could not help but stand out: good, bad or ugly.
Let us be QUITE CLEAR about this, I did not pursue a try in VIRGINIA, because despite all of the proclamations to the contrary, your thoughts were correct. The hypocrisy of the “LEFTY EAST” is the reason complete to do something different.
YOUR experiences are just that “YOURS”; applicable in your case… sure sorry you should have UN-ASSED the place as we did. Your trip might have been much better.
BUT understand as I see it I am an MS-4 (matched like everything else MY WAY), so my experience is AT LEAST AS VALID AS YOURS… SO why not include a disclaimer (as I always do) and speak for yourself.
Sorry but MY experience is equally VALID, I have a REAL BLUE COLLAR BACKGROUND (I was not a BSN or degree holder or even “college eligible” out of high school), I EARNED my trip as an older student… by the school of hard knocks and I found that those around me were quite interested: the HISTORY itself was my defining characteristic!
My point is VERY simple… all things being equal, everyone who is academically qualified for medical school is bright and has demonstrated a certain level of academic excellence, these are important, but EVERY student at the front door has them… so what makes US (NON-trads) different from a cohort of all the other like-qualified 20 year olds? LIFE, it IS what makes us different!
I see NO reason to bust someones “ba__s” because they are not academic all-stars at the start. I prefer to give ALL with this dream a good old fashioned and solid “bucking up”; get them off on the right foot, if it is to be… it will be, it seems odd to me anyway to give advice LESS than that within an organization with THIS stated goal and mission!
sniff sniff I smell drama… ruh roh 
I’m sure no offense was intended. I think this thread is a good discussion - and meta-discussion - of how different perspectives may be valid, and how it’s important not overestimate the importance of one’s own.
Thanks for the perspective and grounding Adam…
My “little man” was jumping up and down and just screaming… It stinks to have the fur “counter stroked”… even inadvertently…
Richard
(apparently I have exceeded the board’s capacity for embedded quotes, so the dialogue will be in different colors)
With all due respect (and I do, please understand, I DO respect your accomplishment), I am going to take issue with the following:
“I’ve seen way too many OPMs think that ordinary scores and grades can be overlooked because, after all, they have life experience. That will NOT happen.” (SEZ WHO?)
You have selectively left out the second paragraph of my post, in which I say:
What CAN happen is that you package good grades and scores, good LORs, and a really interesting life story, so that you stand out. Just be careful that you don’t think that you are more attractive simply because you’re old and therefore more experienced. It’s a fine distinction but an important one.
It would appear that I was not clear in defining this fine distinction. So let me try again: I have heard people, on this board and others, state that they felt that they should get more consideration, all other things being equal, because “life means experience.” However, unless you can demonstrate what sort of great experiences your life has gained you, age can and will count against you.
My grades were excellent, MCAT (just) OK but the other stuff was absolutley UNIQUE, I could not help but stand out: good, bad or ugly.
I am sorry that you thought I was referring to you in the part of my post that you quoted, because I actually was referring to you in the second paragraph that I have quoted above. It is patently obvious that your unique road to med school made you stand out and you now have the position to show for it. For crying out loud, why would you think that anyone is saying otherwise? You have made it! As you point out, everyone has seen it!
Let us be QUITE CLEAR about this, I did not pursue a try in VIRGINIA, because despite all of the proclamations to the contrary, your thoughts were correct. The hypocrisy of the “LEFTY EAST” is the reason complete to do something different.
YOUR experiences are just that “YOURS”; applicable in your case… sure sorry you should have UN-ASSED the place as we did. Your trip might have been much better.
I accept your apology for these totally uncalled-for and unprofessional remarks, in advance.
BUT understand as I see it I am an MS-4 (matched like everything else MY WAY), so my experience is AT LEAST AS VALID AS YOURS… SO why not include a disclaimer (as I always do) and speak for yourself.
Because actually I wasn’t speaking about myself, but – news flash here – I also wasn’t speaking about you. I simply felt that your statement, which was fine as it stood, required a little clarification because of the many people I’ve heard over the years who thought they were somehow entitled to a slot in med school because they were 35, or whatever. When both you and I know that it takes a helluva lot more than just breathing and turning pages on a calendar to get there.
Sorry but MY experience is equally VALID, I have a REAL BLUE COLLAR BACKGROUND (I was not a BSN or degree holder or even “college eligible” out of high school), I EARNED my trip as an older student… by the school of hard knocks and I found that those around me were quite interested: the HISTORY itself was my defining characteristic!
There are many people on this board with blue-collar backgrounds so you don’t need to be defending where you came from or how you got here. I’m not sure why you think it matters to me because, honestly, it really doesn’t. We’re colleagues, after all.
My point is VERY simple… all things being equal, everyone who is academically qualified for medical school is bright and has demonstrated a certain level of academic excellence, these are important, but EVERY student at the front door has them… so what makes US (NON-trads) different from a cohort of all the other like-qualified 20 year olds? LIFE, it IS what makes us different!
I don’t argue with any of these points but I will say that every applicant presents compelling life experiences… whether they’re the experiences of a 20-year-old or a 50-year-old. Every application has to have a really interesting human being shining behind it. We’ve just had more time to rack up the interesting experiences 
I see NO reason to bust someones “ba__s” because they are not academic all-stars at the start. I prefer to give ALL with this dream a good old fashioned and solid “bucking up”; get them off on the right foot, if it is to be… it will be, it seems odd to me anyway to give advice LESS than that within an organization with THIS stated goal and mission!
I stand by my advice and do not appreciate it being misconstrued as less-than-encouraging to OPMs. I think anyone on this board can vouch for the fact that I’m an optimistic realist. And since you apparently took my original statement as a personal slight, please let me assure you that it was not intended as anything of the kind, and I sincerely apologize for offending you. I believe it was one of those situations where I knew what I meant to say, and obviously wasn’t clear enough.
Congratulations again on your match, and best wishes for your future.
Mary
I think you both present a wealth of knowledge and different experiences from which pre-meds like myself can learn from. I certainly appreciate this forum and the inspiration and encouragement it brings to all.
Richard B - I appreciate the story behind your journey, just as much as I appreciate Mary’s. Since joining this site, I have soaked up the advice you both have given so freely, while graciously taking the time out of your schedules to present it.
IMOP we are all mature (given the very nature in the name of this site itself, hopefully) and should not be easily offended, but rather walk in wisdom that our “life” experiences have taught us.
Let’s not think that every post is a direct attack with personal intentions to discredit or devalue each other. We should not beset ourselves by taking anything personal. Even if it is intended to put down one another, let’s be wise enough to treat each other professionally and be examples for the younger students that browse this site.
Much love and success and congratulations to you both, Chrystie 1 Cor 13:4-8